[mvw2]

The wall and distance is simply a matter of how far away does that noise sound like? I listen to a recording of a live concert of some old rock for example. There's audience members chanting, whistling, yelling stuff. If I use the TF10, those audience members sound X far away perceptively. If I use the UM3X, they sound Y far away. If I use the IE8, they sound Z far away. It doesn't help that all the audience near and far all sound like they're at the same distance. The UM3X doesn't sound narrow. It starts close up, but I wouldn't call it narrow in any way. The IE8 starts far away and just sort of stays there with very little additional sense of distance.

I'm somewhat familiar with the K701 too. My bro owns them, but I haven't listened to them a ton, maybe about 2 hours total so far over a small array of songs and a couple games. I can't comment on it at the moment because it's not really fresh in my mind, and I can't say I've ever really critically listened to them. I could give you a relative description in my context at a future time if it would clear up the method I describe sound stage.

I'll make a note on gaming. Headphones are a bad choice. Really you should have a surround sound system if you're serious about directional information. You just won't have the same precision from a two speaker configuration. A headphone with a good sound stage is nice to have, but it can't compete with a surround sound speaker system in terms of positioning. You're never going to be mowing guys down through the wall/roof/dust on Assault with a headphone like you can with a surround sound speaker setup. There are some surround sound headphones, but none are particularly amazing. They sort of work but aren't not all that great. Frankly nothing replaces a good old fashioned surround sound speaker set.

If you're stuck on a two speaker headphone, then the bigger benefits will be excellent directionality and a high level of detail. You want to be able to hear and clearly pick out every little foot step and know where it came from. Frequency response isn't so much an issue. Games are not musical. They're just a bunch of ear candy.

Frankly if you want something with an excellent sound stage, is relatively affordable, and has great overall sound, I would just grab an ER4S or P or even the B if you want more high end. You may like more bass but for gaming it doesn't really matter. It'll do most everything you want.

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The wall and distance is simply a matter of how far away does that noise sound like? I listen to a recording of a live concert of some old rock for example. There's audience members chanting, whistling, yelling stuff. If I use the TF10, those audience members sound X far away perceptively. If I use the UM3X, they sound Y far away. If I use the IE8, they sound Z far away. It doesn't help that all the audience near and far all sound like they're at the same distance. The UM3X doesn't sound narrow. It starts close up, but I wouldn't call it narrow in any way. The IE8 starts far away and just sort of stays there with very little additional sense of distance.

We either hear these IEMs very differently, which is a possibility or the problem lies in the way you communicate your listening experiences, which I find peculiar. Either way, I disagree with your descriptions of the UM3X's sound signature, particularly when you are comparing it to the TF10.

 

[mvw2]

I am a wordy person, and the context of my words don't always agree with everyone (never can). My explanations can be a bit incoherent and off-sided at times as most of this is just shooting from the hip so to speak, nothing well thought out. I have written reviews of everything I've used in a bit more detail.

Everyone also does hear things a little bit different.

The wall sense for me is like this. I am listening to a live concert recording. The mic(s) used might be on the stage or maybe from some viewer point in the crowd. There is a sea of people that spread out for a good distance. The band members exist in specific place, and the crowd exists over a wide area. At times people scream things, whistle, etc. and these are picked up by the mic in the recording. Example: Wolfgang's Vault, Pink Floyd, 5-09-1977 concert at Oakland Coliseum Arena, second song Shine On You Crazy Diamond (just a random example). If you haven't joined Wolfgang's Vault, you should, free, streaming live concerns, just awesome. Anywho, the beginning of the song starts off slow and has a lot of crowd noise: screaming, talking, whistling, etc. Listen to this with the TF10 and with the UM3X. How do you hear the crowd in terms of proximity to the band and individual crowd members relative to other crowd members? How big of an "area" exists? Does the crowd sound expansive? Where do the individuals within the crowd "appear" in location? For example, there's a chick that talks at 35-40 seconds in. Just after she asks "do you want it?" a portion of the crowd yells. How far away is she standing? How is the group yelling portrayed? How far away are they? At 45-50 theres numerous yells by various crowd members at different locations. How are they portrayed in relative distance? There's some whistling at 51 seconds. How far away does it sound? There's a number of individuals chatting in different locations during the start. Can you "see" where they're standing in the "crowd" sea? To me, the TF10 has a hard time creating distance. Near and far is largely similar and no information sounds "far away." A different earphone will create a much more expansive space. Some earphones may have a "big" sound like the IE8 or some "small" like the UM3X. However, distancing isn't so much big or small as it is expansive or not. The UM3X is more expansive but it starts off smaller/closer. the TF10 starts bigger but quickly hits a wall where perceived distance never sounds any farther away. Medium distance information and very far away information all sound the same distance from you. That is the wall. The UM3X doesn't have this wall.

On Youtube, oddly L and R swapped versus Wolfgang.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pinkpigs...68/cuk9553uedA

 

[james444]

^ In other words: soundstage depth (or lack of), if I read this nice description correctly.

 

[mvw2]

Yeah, "walled in" = lack of depth. Although technically sound stage size could be big or small and there could be some sense of layering or at least decent separation (not so much in separate locations in space but not muddied together). The TF10 has good direction and separation. the UM3X has depth.

 

[sk3383]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If speed and soundstage are sufficient for your idea of fun, you'll likely become one of the followers. But if your idea of fun includes lifelike bass, drums and an energetic presentation, I would not recommend the CK10 with a clear conscience.

+1

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, "walled in" = lack of depth. Although technically sound stage size could be big or small and there could be some sense of layering or at least decent separation (not so much in separate locations in space but not muddied together). The TF10 has good direction and separation. the UM3X has depth.

You appear to be referring to the location of sounds within the soundstage of the UM3X, which to your ears provides a greater sense of depth than the TF10. I no longer have the UM3X to compare with the TF10 because one of its major faults as I heard it was its constricted soundstage. The spaciousness of the TF10 soundstage was immediately noticeable to me having come from the UM3X.

Now whether the UM3X does a better job of presenting locational cues within its soundstage than the TF10 is debatable, but it's ultimately a moot point because the UM3X's soundstage was too claustrophobic for me in the first place. Fans of the UM3X refer to its exceptional instrument separation but again, this was negated somewhat by its small soundstage. I actually found the instrument separation of the TF10 more impressive.

 

[cn11]

That's exactly how I used to describe the differences between the W3 and IE8... while the IE8 has better expansiveness to the stage, the W3's had better instrument resolution and placement within a narrower stage. Impressive as the W3's detail and placement was, I preferred the wider space and depth of the IE8.

 

[DoesNotQuiteFi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If speed and soundstage are sufficient for your idea of fun, you'll likely become one of the followers. But if your idea of fun includes lifelike bass, drums and an energetic presentation, I would not recommend the CK10 with a clear conscience.

What would you recommend? Do you think the MTPG fit all my needs?

 

[Pianist]

UM3X images more precisely than Triple.fi. Triple.fi sounds blurry by comparison.

 

[james444]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoesNotQuiteFi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What would you recommend? Do you think the MTPG fit all my needs?

I haven't heard the MTPG. There's an excellent review http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/c...o-gold-473075/ involving them. I have two of these IEMs (CK10, HJE900) and they are accurately portrayed, so this most certainly applies to the third one too.

TBO, I'm tempted to say that you want too much in one phone for the price tag. If you could get all of this in an IEM for $200 there would be no market for a CK100, e-Q7 or even higher priced customs.

Having said that, maybe the best I'm able to come up with, is to go for a more budget oriented phone like the Cyclone PR1 Pro or at max the HJE900 now, and save up for a near perfect (and more expensive) solution in the long run. Even the $50 PR1 Pro do a lot of what you want very well and would be a great interim solution until you're ready for the jackpot.

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianist /img/forum/go_quote.gif UM3X images more precisely than Triple.fi. Triple.fi sounds blurry by comparison.

That wasn't apparent to me.

 

[StereoIntegrity]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif TBO, I'm tempted to say that you want too much in one phone for the price tag. If you could get all of this in an IEM for $200 there would be no market for a CK100, e-Q7 or even higher priced customs. .

i thought the same thing...he is asking to much for 200 or less and i would expect most of this from 350$ range

 

[DoesNotQuiteFi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif TBO, I'm tempted to say that you want too much in one phone for the price tag. If you could get all of this in an IEM for $200 there would be no market for a CK100, e-Q7 or even higher priced customs.

I had this gut feeling I was being way too frugal (is that the right word?) after there were barely any recommendations.

TBH, I thought about it, and I really would be satisfied just with great quality/quantity bass, great instrument separation, a good sized soundstage, and good comfort. Let me bump my requirements down to that.

 

[StereoIntegrity]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoesNotQuiteFi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had this gut feeling I was being way too frugal (is that the right word?) after there were barely any recommendations. TBH, I thought about it, and I really would be satisfied just with great quality/quantity bass, great instrument separation, a good sized soundstage, and good comfort. Let me bump my requirements down to that.

Monster Turbine Pro GOLDS