[money4me247]

lol fun thread

 

[RRod]

 
No it happens in all sections. I wouldn't need my ears to be able to tell you that the portable player in the link below, would be better than an ipod for example. Simply because i know that the components inside the device will be of higher quality not forgetting the 24 bit dac inside it:
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Astell-Kern-Portable-Fidelity-System/dp/B00GXJU5QQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1442444483&sr=1-3&keywords=astell+%26+kern
 
I've been listening with my ears to a multi thousand dollar system for years now... quite like the one in the second video above, and all this talk of "no difference" is (from my point of view) making them sound very silly. It begs the question - how many of these people that make such claims have actually heard a multi thousand dollar system?!...

 
When I first decided to get a "grown-up" setup, I went ahead and believed reviews and ended up with an HD800 + V200 + Bifrost setup, which is a multi-thousand dollar system. Then I found SS and started doing my own learning on the stuff, and promptly ditched the pricey amp and DAC after doing some blind listening. I sometimes think about giving up the HD800 too, but they're just too comfortable.
 
The high-quality 24-bit DAC is probably no more flat in the audible range than the iPod, and unless you're listening to some music I haven't come across, you're not using anywhere near 24 bits. It is, of course, wrong for someone to say things like "ALL amps sound the same." It's more reasoanble to ask "why would I want differences in my setup to come from the amp?" If I want my music to sound different, I'll use DSP before an amp.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  I've long held beliefs that are stated in this article (e.g. inconsequential effects of interconnects) however their statements about amplifiers is patently untrue. How can I trust the rest of their points when the statement "all amplifiers sound the same" is so clearly false?

That's because the Sound Science section of this website is full of people who are fixated on falsifying the truth. When one loses an argument, 2 or 3 others jump to their defence with even more BS...You will come to realise this as you read there posts.
 
 
If there was no difference in higher audio equipment compared to cheaper equipment, then these guys ( in the video's below) must be crazy. They sound pretty sane to me:
 

 

You'll see them try to argue why the system's in the videos above are not any better than an apple ipod next hahahahaa

you give us a lesson and end it with the lamest straw man argument about an ipod. great job showing your own integrity here mate.
and you sure made my point about caricatures

.

 

[Audioholic123]

 
you give us a lesson and end it with the lamest straw man argument about an ipod. great job showing your own integrity here mate.
and you sure made my point about caricatures

.

Your not trying hard enough with your comebacks. I notice you don't try to prove me wrong with your posts...

 

[devilboy]

Anyone else cringe when those kids where sitting next to the turntable changing discs and putting on the record clamp?
Then they dance around the room. ..........
GIMME A FRIGGIN BREAK!

 

[Audioholic123]

   
When I first decided to get a "grown-up" setup, I went ahead and believed reviews and ended up with an HD800 + V200 + Bifrost setup, which is a multi-thousand dollar system. Then I found SS and started doing my own learning on the stuff,

 Correction: Then you found SS and became convinced that they where right and you where wrong. Because they made themselves sound like experts when most of them aren't
cough  "Castleofargh" cough. You let their ideas fool you...
 
 

. I sometimes think about giving up the HD800 too, but they're just too comfortable.
 

 
Who would give up HD800's man...they are more  than just headphones. Headphones like those and my old Denons can invoke the sense's...

 

[Audioholic123]

Anyone else cringe when those kids where sitting next to the turntable changing discs and putting on the record clamp?
Then they dance around the room. ..........
GIMME A FRIGGIN BREAK!

 Did you notice how the woman said that the little girl could tell the difference in sound compared to the previous setup....yet grown men on Head Fi apparently can't tell these differences....my goodness!!!

 

[Audioholic123]

   
 
 
Reality is that if you are careful and not working in a mature technology it is possible to get better performance for more money to a point
 

My points proved then

 

[arnyk]

  My points proved then

 
Your point was that:
 
"The quality of components inside an amp dictate the quality of the sound. All electrical engineers know this (my father is one). An amp with dirt cheap components and transistors will convey the signal and that's that. However, one made of top components and transistors with the finest capacitors required to convey the signal, will ultimately output a  better, more preserved, less degraded  signal."
 
Was completely disproven, and let me be more clear for your benefit.
 
(1) Once the quality of components inside an amp reach a certain generally achievable level of quality, further improvements in their quality cannot improve the quality of the sound.  For example, I can build an amp out of 1%-5% metal film resistors (the current commodity mainstream) and further improvements in component quality (to say 0.1% metal foil resistors) will have no audible benefits. The higher quality components are for precision instrumentation, not consumer audio gear. Using them is just like putting aviation gas into a car that is designed for low lead, low octane gas.  
 
(2) It is true that an amp that is built with commodity components will convey the signal but not only is that that, it is all that is needed for the best possible sound quality.  
 
The general quality of commodity components has improved considerably since the early days of audio. Back in the 1950s audio gear sold by Marantz and McIntosh that still commands fantastic prices contained commodity 10-20% tolerance carbon composition resistors.  Today the standard dirt-cheap SMT resistor is a 1%-5% metal film part which is a far, far better part and for most applications impossible to improve on for audio.
 
(3) There are other strong determiners of sound quality than parts quality, such as circuit design and configuration. There is a lot of overpriced high end audio gear that poorly designed and thus 
betrays the quality of its parts.
 
(4) Improving the sound quality of an audio system by improving the electronics beyond commonly achieved standards  is generally futile since the limits to audio system sound quality are generally related to acoustics and transducers.

 

[RRod]

 
 Correction: Then you found SS and became convinced that they where right and you where wrong. Because they made themselves sound like experts when most of them aren't
cough  "Castleofargh" cough. You let their ideas fool you...
 
 
 
Who would give up HD800's man...they are more  than just headphones. Headphones like those and my old Denons can invoke the sense's...

 
Yeah, how dare they talk about things like equations and measurements and stuff; foolish people. I'd give up the HD800s because measurements at my own ear show that something like my HD598s aren't too far off from what the 800s are delivering for me at 8-10x the price. Still darn comfy cans, though.

 

[Audioholic123]

   
Your point was that:
 
"The quality of components inside an amp dictate the quality of the sound. All electrical engineers know this (my father is one). An amp with dirt cheap components and transistors will convey the signal and that's that. However, one made of top components and transistors with the finest capacitors required to convey the signal, will ultimately output a  better, more preserved, less degraded  signal."
 
Was completely disproven, and let me be more clear for your benefit.
 
(1) Once the quality of components inside an amp reach a certain generally achievable level of quality, further improvements in their quality cannot improve the quality of the sound.  For example, I can build an amp out of 1%-5% metal film resistors (the current commodity mainstream) and further improvements in component quality (to say 0.1% metal foil resistors) will have no audible benefits. The higher quality components are for precision instrumentation, not consumer audio gear. Using them is just like putting aviation gas into a car that is designed for low lead, low octane gas.  
 
(2) It is true that an amp that is built with commodity components will convey the signal but not only is that that, it is all that is needed for the best possible sound quality.  
 
The general quality of commodity components has improved considerably since the early days of audio. Back in the 1950s audio gear sold by Marantz and McIntosh that still commands fantastic prices contained commodity 10-20% tolerance carbon composition resistors.  Today the standard dirt-cheap SMT resistor is a 1%-5% metal film part which is a far, far better part and for most applications impossible to improve on for audio.
 
(3) There are other strong determiners of sound quality than parts quality, such as circuit design and configuration. There is a lot of overpriced high end audio gear that poorly designed and thus 
betrays the quality of its parts.
 
(4) Improving the sound quality of an audio system by improving the electronics beyond commonly achieved standards  is generally futile since the limits to audio system sound quality are generally related to acoustics and transducers.

You are essentially saying the same thing as me. But take an entire multi thousand dollar system, Mono blocks, exotic cable's blah blah blah...Cyrus cd player with 24 bit Wolfson dac inside...then use summit fi speakers or headphones...now take a Marantz cd6005 with a 6005 amp...would you honestly say there is little to no difference?....i mean come on.
You and me both know that's not true. Yet it's what you'll find plastered all over this website and sadly the internet. I only tried to make people aware of this by posting on this forum.
It really does make me sad to hear these "no difference" claims...
 
It is not uncommon for me to hear the disc spinning in between tracks through my speakers/headphones... ( from my 24 bit Wolfson dac Cyrus cd player). That's an indication of the importance of the quality of the internal components. (btw it's not a faulty amp, it's the actual disc i often hear)

 

[arnyk]

 
You are essentially saying the same thing as me. But take an entire multi thousand dollar system, Mono blocks, exotic cable's blah blah blah...Cyrus cd player with 24 bit Wolfson dac inside...then use summit fi speakers or headphones...now take a Marantz cd6005 with a 6005 amp...would you honestly say there is little to no difference?....i mean come on.
You and me both know that's not true. Yet it's what you'll find plastered all over this website and sadly the internet. I only tried to make people aware of this by posting on this forum.
It really does make me sad to hear these "no difference" claims...
 
It is not uncommon for me to hear the disc spinning in between tracks through my speakers/headphones... ( from my 24 bit Wolfson dac Cyrus cd player). That's an indication of the importance of the quality of the internal components. (btw it's not a faulty amp, it's the actual disc i often hear)

God help me if I'm saying the same thing as:
 
""The quality of components inside an amp dictate the quality of the sound. All electrical engineers know this (my father is one). An amp with dirt cheap components and transistors will convey the signal and that's that. However, one made of top components and transistors with the finest capacitors required to convey the signal, will ultimately output a  better, more preserved, less degraded  signal."
 
Please explain how my statements are the same thing as what you say.  They were designed to say something quite different, i.e., convey the true facts of the matter.
 
Then it appears that you change the subject, not once but twice. That is pretty much a concession on your part that in fact you have no relevant, on-topic way of of explaining your claim that our statements are "The same thing", isn't it?
 
If you hear the disc between the tracks (i.e., the CD player is not internally muting itself), Then the noise is by definition of the Redbook CD format  no more than 93 dB down. Reproducing that accurately with modern commodity grade electronic components is simply not a problem.  Therefore the additional, off-topic evidence that seems to be brought gratuitously to the discussion does not support your thesis. 

 

[Audioholic123]

  God help me if I'm saying the same thing as:
 
""The quality of components inside an amp dictate the quality of the sound. All electrical engineers know this (my father is one). An amp with dirt cheap components and transistors will convey the signal and that's that. However, one made of top components and transistors with the finest capacitors required to convey the signal, will ultimately output a  better, more preserved, less degraded  signal."
 
Please explain how my statements are the same thing as what you say.  They were designed to say something quite different, i.e., convey the true facts of the matter.
 
Then it appears that you change the subject, not once but twice. That is pretty much a concession on your part that in fact you have no relevant, on-topic way of of explaining your claim that our statements are "The same thing", isn't it?
 
If you hear the disc between the tracks (i.e., the CD player is not internally muting itself), Then the noise is by definition of the Redbook CD format  no more than 93 dB down. Reproducing that accurately with modern commodity grade electronic components is simply not a problem.  Therefore the additional, off-topic evidence that seems to be brought gratuitously to the discussion does not support your thesis. 

You are good with your words. That in turn creates a superiority complex. I'm simplifying what your saying for less technically minded people...
I might not know everything in the world but i sure as hell know what i'm talking about here. You jumped in on this discussion at the right moment. That's because no one else could counter what i was saying because they don't understand it like you do. Why is the glass always half empty with guys on here...
Word for word what you have been posting in this thread confirms my point, your just over -complicating your words to make it sound like i'm wrong.
I'm just as clever as you...but i hide it well! and right now your probably trying to find some proof that i'm wrong...

 

[bfreedma]

 
You are good with your words. That in turn creates a superiority complex. I'm simplifying what your saying for less technically minded people...
I might not know everything in the world but i sure as hell know what i'm talking about here. You jumped in on this discussion at the right moment. That's because no one else could counter what i was saying because they don't understand it like you do. Why is the glass always half empty with guys on here...
Word for word what you have been posting in this thread confirms my point, your just over -complicating your words to make it sound like i'm wrong.
I'm just as clever as you...but i hide it well! and right now your probably trying to find some proof that i'm wrong...

 
No, you're completely changing what Arny is saying to fit your opinions.  Opinions which you've consistently been unable to support with any factual data.
 
People aren't over complicating their responses to make it sound like you are wrong, people are posting accurate information proving you are wrong.  Big difference.

 

[Audioholic123]

   
No, you're completely changing what Arny is saying to fit your opinions.  Opinions which you've consistently been unable to support with any factual data.
 
People aren't over complicating their responses to make it sound like you are wrong, people are posting accurate information proving you are wrong.  Big difference.

What is your technical opinion then? what can you add? would be interesting to hear what you can add...
 
One of the worlds most respected audio experts:
http://www.cnet.com/news/are-audiophiles-wasting-their-money-on-expensive-gear/
____________________________________________________________________________
Accurate Information:
A simple upgrade in the components...such as thicker cables with more copper, higher grade resistors ( with better impedance) and carefully selected capacitors, higher carrot gold audio jacks plus more....all determine how good or bad an audio device operates... my point was that high end systems tend to incorporate these internal components a million times better than cheaper ones....hence tend to sound much better. Its why many power amps have no buttons on them, there's no need when the internal ciruit board has such higher quality components on them to convey the sound. I didn't go into detail about it as it would be a long and boring debate that not many would technically understand...
But the above paragraph demonstrates that i do indeed know what i'm talking about and know i'm correct. Furthermore it also proves that things such as burn in exist, but that's off topic. I should also mention the importance of a laser...and how a very high quality laser ( the kind you only find in expensive players, and the mechanics involved) is  a contributing factor towards the reason why i can often hear the disc spinning through my headphones/speakers...
 
In a cheaper system they often make trade offs and cut corners with lesser components.
 
Also - power cords make a difference too. It is important that the current flow through the cord, flows as flawlessly as possible without interference. This is where ferrite cores come in handy also. Cables with  better quality copper will ensure better current flow.
 
Hmm lets see....
 
Has anyone ever examined cable thickness on drivers in headphones?...has anyone ever noticed higher distortion with thinner cable?...this is related to cable thickness, the thicker the cable, the more room the signal has to power the headphones. Due to the electrons in the signal, having more space between each other. This is why almost all cheap headphones have very thin cables...they don't require as much voltage as higher quality ones with more power needed to drive them...oh those cable crazies huh...selling cables for hundreds!!!
 
So...i know nothing then??!!!