[En_R]

Yes it is moving faster but there are then "high end" DAC's out there that still command for quite a large lump of money considering how dated it is.

 


You were responding to a post by Two Ears (DACs become obsolete quickly) by saying most of the high end stuff retains their value. What I'm saying is most DACs become dated and their value plummets at a faster rate than other types of source (CD. TT). Even the high end stuff.

This is pretty obvious to whoever keeps tabs on the secondhand market. Couple months ago I was looking for some new gear to try out, and my first choice was the Accuphase DP700 - which was released in 08, and retailed for around 12000 in Japan. They still go for about 9k on the used market- not bad right? Now check out the prices on the MSB Platinum DAC IV series, which was released a couple years later than the DP700.. pretty much all are sold at half MSRP, or less.

I guess there are some high end DACs that retained value longer than most (Audio Note UK and Wadia comes to mind) and maybe those that have limited supply (Kondo KSL-DAC), but most of the time selling this stuff secondhand is like sitting on ship with a leak. You either throw away most of your goods or everything just sinks faster.

 

[elmoe]

 

  Yes it is moving faster but there are then "high end" DAC's out there that still command for quite a large lump of money considering how dated it is.

 


You were responding to a post by Two Ears (DACs become obsolete quickly) by saying most of the high end stuff retains their value. What I'm saying is most DACs become dated and their value plummets at a faster rate than other types of source (CD. TT). Even the high end stuff.

This is pretty obvious to whoever keeps tabs on the secondhand market. Couple months ago I was looking for some new gear to try out, and my first choice was the Accuphase DP700 - which was released in 08, and retailed for around 12000 in Japan. They still go for about 9k on the used market- not bad right? Now check out the prices on the MSB Platinum DAC IV series, which was released a couple years later than the DP700.. pretty much all are sold at half MSRP, or less.

I guess there are some high end DACs that retained value longer than most (Audio Note UK and Wadia comes to mind) and maybe those that have limited supply (Kondo KSL-DAC), but most of the time selling this stuff secondhand is like sitting on ship with a leak. You either throw away most of your goods or everything just sinks faster.

 
And that's not just valid for summit gear either, my non USB Benchmark DAC-1 wouldn't sell for above 500usd nowadays, whereas the USB version would sell for 850usd. That's a pretty huge drop in value for non USB DACs.

 

[Failed Engineer]

Personally, I would never buy any DAC new.  These forums, the 'gon, and the audiomarts have a ton of DACs all the time, from ultra high end to solid budget ones.  And most of them just sit there on a shelf and never move.  I got my Hex used for significantly less than new.  It does take monitoring those places at least daily to strike a great deal.

 

[rgs9200m]

I think the OP should take this in stages:
1. phones and a good amp and a $100 Dragonfly Dac.
2. when happy with the phone+amp combo, try a better Dac.

 

[Quaddy]

cool thread, its interesting, as it mirrors myself to some extent, in that some years back when i was active here, had a "high end" setup, sold it all, moved on, and am now, getting back in the game (not to the same extent)

my budget isn't as big as the OP's albeit we are dealing in different currencies, so i decided to start with the headphones i wanted, rather than do it all in one package deal so to speak, so i bought the fostex th-900's, and intend, intend being the operative word, to eventually, funds permitting, pair it with a top flight dac (tbd), and the bakoon 5210mk3 amp. and thats me done so they say, famous last words, but will likely pass the time until i obtain those two add-on items with lesser spotted variants (as rgs9200m alluded to) enjoying the cans till then

@OP - but just to pick up on the fact you said you had been out of the game too long to have sampled the hd800, and you commented that the 650's weren't your cup of tea, please don't assume that the hd800's follow on linearly in progression, like the naming schema, for me they are much better and a different sound, and are amongst the best (imo, and a lot of others!), if it had not been for my own need for closed back now, i would have re-purchased them, but don't judge that book by the 650's cover, you and they deserve better than that, an audition at least

whatever you end up with, hope you re-capture some of the halcyon headphone listening magic moments that make the hobby worth it.

 

 

[kugino]

  I think the OP should take this in stages:
1. phones and a good amp and a $100 Dragonfly Dac.
2. when happy with the phone+amp combo, try a better Dac.

i may be wrong, but i don't think bahamaman is going this route. 

 

[bahamaman]

I'm really intrigued by the comments about not needing to overspend on a DAC, and the wisdom of buying used.  As someone (I think) said, the technology is moving so quickly that the market just doesn't attach as much value to used digital gear.  I think that might be particularly true in the hi-rez domain, where it would seem the technology is in its infancy (or at least toddler stage).
 
As proof of the point, I spotted (earlier today) a well-regarded DSD DAC selling for roughly half its original price.
 
I know that the BHSE is the holy grail for the 009s (or 007s, for that matter).  Does the Eddie Current Electra get some love around these parts as well?  Or not so much?

 

[Maxvla]

Used for DACs is tricky, as you need to buy them soon after they release to get the most out of the advances in tech, but sometimes the price doesn't drop very fast. I think that's why people are suggesting to stay around $1-2k for a DAC and buy new or used but recently released.

 

[purk]

  I'm really intrigued by the comments about not needing to overspend on a DAC, and the wisdom of buying used.  As someone (I think) said, the technology is moving so quickly that the market just doesn't attach as much value to used digital gear.  I think that might be particularly true in the hi-rez domain, where it would seem the technology is in its infancy (or at least toddler stage).
 
As proof of the point, I spotted (earlier today) a well-regarded DSD DAC selling for roughly half its original price.
 
I know that the BHSE is the holy grail for the 009s (or 007s, for that matter).  Does the Eddie Current Electra get some love around these parts as well?  Or not so much?

I second not spending too much on DAC.  Most of the 2K DACs such as the NAD M51 are quite good sounding for the price.  Buy used and save the fund for bigger source upgrade in the future as technology continue to progress forward.  I personally would look into getting the BHSE or KGSSHV.  Kevin Gilmore designs are really great and work wonder with the Stax headphones.  Like you, I used to have SP ES-1 at one point in time and I personally think the BHSE do sound better, especially with the Stax headphones.

 

[Maxvla]

Would it be possible to recreate the ES-1 but with proper build quality this time?

 

[jibzilla]

  I'm really intrigued by the comments about not needing to overspend on a DAC, and the wisdom of buying used.  As someone (I think) said, the technology is moving so quickly that the market just doesn't attach as much value to used digital gear.  I think that might be particularly true in the hi-rez domain, where it would seem the technology is in its infancy (or at least toddler stage).
 
As proof of the point, I spotted (earlier today) a well-regarded DSD DAC selling for roughly half its original price.
 
I know that the BHSE is the holy grail for the 009s (or 007s, for that matter).  Does the Eddie Current Electra get some love around these parts as well?  Or not so much?

 

[purk]

Would it be possible to recreate the ES-1 but with proper build quality this time?

Spritzer and KG did it but the BHSE and KGSSHV will be a better match to the SR007 mk1 from what I gather. When I had the ES1 the bias drifted all over the place. Luckily Mikhail refunded my money.

 

[britneedadvice]

Hi 'bahamaman'
Just come home to find this 'new' thread.
Well,(without having read all the comments so far), your question is going to provoke so many 'answers' which (I guess)will ultimately cause more confusion than help??
I'm definitely of the opinion some may give advice on the basis of what they think is right(possibly having taken the advice of some 'Headphone Supremus'!!)Good information is only good if you know the source??, which I suspect will be difficult to determine here!? If you're going to take anything from these pages, learn where the good 'source' is!!
Only thing to do, as always in HiFi, audition as much as possible and believe your own ears.
 Also, when taking advice , you need to know what the 'system' is being used for.Very seldom is that discussed here.If you want to listen to good quality Classical recordings, your choice may be different from somebody who's listening to gaming.
Audition,audition,audition............
One of the most expensive Headphone/Amp combo out there has divided opinion,I've heard it and it's not reproducing the 'soul' of the music any better than mine at a third of the cost!!

 

[David1961]

  I'm really intrigued by the comments about not needing to overspend on a DAC, and the wisdom of buying used.  As someone (I think) said, the technology is moving so quickly that the market just doesn't attach as much value to used digital gear.  I think that might be particularly true in the hi-rez domain, where it would seem the technology is in its infancy (or at least toddler stage).
 
As proof of the point, I spotted (earlier today) a well-regarded DSD DAC selling for roughly half its original price.
 
I know that the BHSE is the holy grail for the 009s (or 007s, for that matter).  Does the Eddie Current Electra get some love around these parts as well?  Or not so much?

 
When I took my 009's and BHSE to a UK head-fi meeting, I also took my iPod which I used as source, and some that had a listen were very impressed with the SQ from my 009 / BHSE / iPod, so IMO an expensive source isn't necessary to make the 009 / BHSE sound amazing, but my main source [ to my hearing ] takes the 009 / BHSE to another level, and even more so since using the Psvane EL34PH tubes with my BHSE, but like what britneedadvice said, auditioning is something that needs to be done.
 
P.S. Some may feel I've gone OTT in getting and using the K-01 with headphones, but when I got that source, my thought was eventually I'd be getting some speakers, which I will.

 

[TwoEars]

   
When I took my 009's and BHSE to a UK head-fi meeting, I also took my iPod which I used as source, and some that had a listen were very impressed with the SQ from my 009 / BHSE / iPod, so IMO an expensive source isn't necessary to make the 009 / BHSE sound amazing, but my main source [ to my hearing ] takes the 009 / BHSE to another level, and even more so since using the Psvane EL34PH tubes with my BHSE, but like what britneedadvice said, auditioning is something that needs to be done.
 
P.S. Some may feel I've gone OTT in getting and using the K-01 with headphones, but when I got that source, my thought was eventually I'd be getting some speakers, which I will.

 
Typically what you get with more expensive DAC's in my experience is more details, better soundstage and texture, more natural vocals and timbre, less of a "flat presentation".
 
But there are still some really cheap DAC's around $200-300 that can have a great sense of pace, rhythm and involvement and they can definitively be fun to listen to.
 
I think the key factor when choosing an inexpensive DAC is to err or the forgiving and warm side. A $200 screecher makes no one happy.