[Alex May]

The thing is I'm not sure if my problem is in 13-15к range, because I feel tension mostly on vocals and guitars. And I should mention that I mean metalcore vocals and guitars. As a comparison, I have Audiosense AQ0 as my main earphones, and I like everything about them, as a basshead. But its a dynamic driver, that can't give me the details that Timeless can give. For now I use KBEAR 08 eartips with stock cable, my DAC is E1DA 9038SG3 that is set to Corrected Min Phase Fast digital filter. There's also PCM to DSD option set in Neutron player. So... I did almost everything with the treble harshness, and as I hear it doesn't bother me anymore, but what do bother is extreme vocals and distorted guitars.

Eartips make the most difference to begin with. As for me, the large eartip with the widest bore possible and the long, heavy shaft did the trick. In regards to EQ, you never know unless you try. I'm telling you about my personal experience. Who knows if it helps. But you never know until you try it.

EDIT: Some eartips might also emphasize the 2-3K area which can get shouty on vocals and electric guitars. You might want to experiment with this area too.

 

[samandhi]

The thing is I'm not sure if my problem is in 13-15к range, because I feel tension mostly on vocals and guitars. And I should mention that I mean metalcore vocals and guitars. As a comparison, I have Audiosense AQ0 as my main earphones, and I like everything about them, as a basshead. But its a dynamic driver, that can't give me the details that Timeless can give. For now I use KBEAR 08 eartips with stock cable, my DAC is E1DA 9038SG3 that is set to Corrected Min Phase Fast digital filter. There's also PCM to DSD option set in Neutron player. So... I did almost everything with the treble harshness, and as I hear it doesn't bother me anymore, but what do bother is extreme vocals and distorted guitars.

Try turning off PCM to DSD in Neutron. Sometimes this tries too hard to alleviate clipping and other distortions by using dithering and sound shaping. Also sometimes I have noticed in Neutron that it takes it a bit too far, and makes things in that range sound a bit harsh. This may not be your problem, but it also could be. I have noticed it myself in the past, and I am not sensitive to mid to upper treble at all (though I AM sensitive to a boosted presence region).

Also, if you are using a abnormal amount of upsampling in Neutron (say 8 or more), you will get this same effect. Don't forget there is also an actual dither + sound shaping option in Neutron that you could try and turn off to check it. Also, do you have AGP (auto gain protection) set to on? If not you might give that a shot. Maybe your hearing massive clipping??? I know a couple of these might seem like longshots, but Neutron has a crap-ton of DSP options that can shape the sound you might get.

It could be that NONE of these things are the issue, but hopefully it will at least help, if not get rid of the problem for you altogether.

Edit: If all else fails, you could go to this site and test all frequencies and find out the culprit for you, then EQ that individual frequency down some as @Alex May suggested.

 

[yaps66]

Try turning off PCM to DSD in Neutron. Sometimes this tries too hard to alleviate clipping and other distortions by using dithering and sound shaping. Also sometimes I have noticed in Neutron that it takes it a bit too far, and makes things in that range sound a bit harsh. This may not be your problem, but it also could be. I have noticed it myself in the past, and I am not sensitive to mid to upper treble at all (though I AM sensitive to a boosted presence region).

Also, if you are using a abnormal amount of upsampling in Neutron (say 8 or more), you will get this same effect. Don't forget there is also an actual dither + sound shaping option in Neutron that you could try and turn off to check it. Also, do you have AGP (auto gain protection) set to on? If not you might give that a shot. Maybe your hearing massive clipping??? I know a couple of these might seem like longshots, but Neutron has a crap-ton of DSP options that can shape the sound you might get.

It could be that NONE of these things are the issue, but hopefully it will at least help, if not get rid of the problem for you altogether.

Edit: If all else fails, you could go to this site and test all frequencies and find out the culprit for you, then EQ that individual frequency down some as @Alex May suggested.

That’s some great tips there!

Edit: Sorry! Just realised. No pun imtended!

 

[Ryoidenshi]

Try turning off PCM to DSD in Neutron. Sometimes this tries too hard to alleviate clipping and other distortions by using dithering and sound shaping. Also sometimes I have noticed in Neutron that it takes it a bit too far, and makes things in that range sound a bit harsh. This may not be your problem, but it also could be. I have noticed it myself in the past, and I am not sensitive to mid to upper treble at all (though I AM sensitive to a boosted presence region).

Also, if you are using a abnormal amount of upsampling in Neutron (say 8 or more), you will get this same effect. Don't forget there is also an actual dither + sound shaping option in Neutron that you could try and turn off to check it. Also, do you have AGP (auto gain protection) set to on? If not you might give that a shot. Maybe your hearing massive clipping??? I know a couple of these might seem like longshots, but Neutron has a crap-ton of DSP options that can shape the sound you might get.

It could be that NONE of these things are the issue, but hopefully it will at least help, if not get rid of the problem for you altogether.

Edit: If all else fails, you could go to this site and test all frequencies and find out the culprit for you, then EQ that individual frequency down some as @Alex May suggested.

Thanks for all your advises, turning on PCM to DSD is actually the thing that I came to on my way to reduce the shrilling effect, and it actually helped a little bit. As I'm using PCM to DSD, I turned off oversampling. I'll try other things you mentioned that I have not tested yet.

Eartips make the most difference to begin with. As for me, the large eartip with the widest bore possible and the long, heavy shaft did the trick. In regards to EQ, you never know unless you try. I'm telling you about my personal experience. Who knows if it helps. But you never know until you try it.

EDIT: Some eartips might also emphasize the 2-3K area which can get shouty on vocals and electric guitars. You might want to experiment with this area too.

I have a plenty of eartips that have a wide nozzle, but as I remember all of them make treble very sharp. I have one eartips from AliExpress that has no model, they're just dark grey with red stem, nozzle inner diameter is 3,8 mm. That eartips tames the the most vocals and guitars shrill, and also make bass super massive and punchy, but the problem is that they also make treble cleaner and sharper. As of now it's not a big problem with most tracks I listen, but that treble is standing right on the edge. I'll try all my wide nozzle eartips today or tomorrow anyway, thank you for the advise.

 

[samandhi]

Thanks for all your advises, turning on PCM to DSD is actually the thing that I came to on my way to reduce the shrilling effect, and it actually helped a little bit. As I'm using PCM to DSD, I turned off oversampling. I'll try other things you mentioned that I have not tested yet.

I have a plenty of eartips that have a wide nozzle, but as I remember all of them make treble very sharp. I have one eartips from AliExpress that has no model, they're just dark grey with red stem, nozzle inner diameter is 3,8 mm. That eartips tames the the most vocals and guitars shrill, and also make bass super massive and punchy, but the problem is that they also make treble cleaner and sharper. As of now it's not a big problem with most tracks I listen, but that treble is standing right on the edge. I'll try all my wide nozzle eartips today or tomorrow anyway, thank you for the advise.

You are welcome! I hope you get your issue taken care of?!

You are correct. Wide bore tips will only exacerbate the issue. Have you tried something like Final Type E tips? They are very narrow (AKA known as treble killers)... Also, if it is indeed a treble issue rather than in the presence region (1k-4kish) you could try using a pure copper cable in conjunction with narrow bore tips. It is pretty subtle, but if you say it is right on the edge, it might just give you enough to solve it...

 

[mobbaddict]

The wide bore black silicone tips actually make the sound signature flatter for me,using powerbeat tips which have a nearly 5mm hole. These are short too (9mm long).

 

[Alex May]

I have a plenty of eartips that have a wide nozzle, but as I remember all of them make treble very sharp.

Wide bore tips will only exacerbate the issue.

Only if wide and shallow, yes, it will exacerbate the issue. I agree. It should also be deep enough to have sufficient space between the IEM's nozzle and the tip of the bore. So that the sound has enough space to develop. If a bore is wide but shallow so that the nozzle is too close to the tip's opening, it will most definitely make the sound piercing and shrill with unexpected peaks and dips in the treble. I found that only the AZLAs are wide and also deep enough, at least for my personal auditory system, so that they don't produce weird peaks and dips in the treble like others. I could recommend not only the regular Sedna EarFit but also Crystal (not the short version for TWS) or Xelastec, although Xelastecs are extremely sticky. However, of all the AZLAs I'd strongly recommend the Regular or the Light Sedna EarFit (not affiliated with them by any means).

Again, you never know unless you try for yourself what we share. Even though we all might have different experiences, sometimes opposite in effect. But that's the nature of the game.

 

[Ryoidenshi]

Only if wide and shallow, yes, it will exacerbate the issue. I agree. It should also be deep enough to have sufficient space between the IEM's nozzle and the tip of the bore. So that the sound has enough space to develop. If a bore is wide but shallow so that the nozzle is too close to the tip's opening, it will most definitely make the sound piercing and shrill with unexpected peaks and dips in the treble. I found that only the AZLAs are wide and also deep enough, at least for my personal auditory system, so that they don't produce weird peaks and dips in the treble like others. I could recommend not only the regular Sedna EarFit but also Crystal (not the short version for TWS) or Xelastec, although Xelastecs are extremely sticky. However, of all the AZLAs I'd strongly recommend the Regular or the Light Sedna EarFit (not affiliated with them by any means).

Again, you never know unless you try for yourself what we share. Even though we all might have different experiences, sometimes opposite in effect. But that's the nature of the game.

I have Xelastec eartips, and unfortunately, in my opinion, these are the worst tips in my collection, and also the most overprised. I can't describe properly why I don't like them so much. They just don't do it for me.
One more thing I'd like to discuss is the cable. I'm using stock one, because a lot of people mentioned that it's the most treble soft for them. But will the pure copper be even softer? The only one I own is 7N purity (but I'm kinda doubt it), 4 core cable. But like I said, I'm not sure if it'll be better, and I don't like to A-B it because MMCX connectors absolutely don't appreciate that. So, what you guys think?

 

[samandhi]

Thanks for all your advises, turning on PCM to DSD is actually the thing that I came to on my way to reduce the shrilling effect, and it actually helped a little bit. As I'm using PCM to DSD, I turned off oversampling. I'll try other things you mentioned that I have not tested yet.

I have a plenty of eartips that have a wide nozzle, but as I remember all of them make treble very sharp. I have one eartips from AliExpress that has no model, they're just dark grey with red stem, nozzle inner diameter is 3,8 mm. That eartips tames the the most vocals and guitars shrill, and also make bass super massive and punchy, but the problem is that they also make treble cleaner and sharper. As of now it's not a big problem with most tracks I listen, but that treble is standing right on the edge. I'll try all my wide nozzle eartips today or tomorrow anyway, thank you for the advise.

And, if all of those things fail, you could always get something like these. Then you can easily change out the filter to your liking. I have these that I bought for an all BA set I have, and they do work noticeably. The only thing I can't tell you is if they will fit well for you or not. You can also get these on Amazon should you need the ability to return them if they don't work for you.

I have Xelastec eartips, and unfortunately, in my opinion, these are the worst tips in my collection, and also the most overprised. I can't describe properly why I don't like them so much. They just don't do it for me.
One more thing I'd like to discuss is the cable. I'm using stock one, because a lot of people mentioned that it's the most treble soft for them. But will the pure copper be even softer? The only one I own is 7N purity (but I'm kinda doubt it), 4 core cable. But like I said, I'm not sure if it'll be better, and I don't like to A-B it because MMCX connectors absolutely don't appreciate that. So, what you guys think?

Firstly, I wouldn't say that an all copper cable would make the treble softer per se'. What it tends to do is smoothen out the peaks a bit while making the bass seem richer. If you are using the stock cable, then a pure copper cable SHOULD smoothen them out a bit. Keep in mind though that this can be either subtle, non existent to your ears, or drastic. You won't really know until you try it out for yourself.

You shouldn't be afraid to swap them just a bit. Most MMCX connectors are rated for a minimum of 500 mating changes. A good one will be rated for 1000 or more. What you DO have to be careful of is how you remove them. If you can't get the MMCX tool that comes with the Timeless to work, then a good fingernail will work; insert fingernail, press in and up, away from earpiece and it should just pop right off. I certainly wouldn't recommend pulling on the connector, or even the pinch between your fingers method (at least until you get the "feel" of it), that is where the potential for damage can come from if they aren't pulled straight off.

 

[Ryoidenshi]

And, if all of those things fail, you could always get something like these. Then you can easily change out the filter to your liking. I have these that I bought for an all BA set I have, and they do work noticeably. The only thing I can't tell you is if they will fit well for you or not. You can also get these on Amazon should you need the ability to return them if they don't work for you.


Firstly, I wouldn't say that an all copper cable would make the treble softer per se'. What it tends to do is smoothen out the peaks a bit while making the bass seem richer. If you are using the stock cable, then a pure copper cable SHOULD smoothen them out a bit. Keep in mind though that this can be either subtle, non existent to your ears, or drastic. You won't really know until you try it out for yourself.

You shouldn't be afraid to swap them just a bit. Most MMCX connectors are rated for a minimum of 500 mating changes. A good one will be rated for 1000 or more. What you DO have to be careful of is how you remove them. If you can't get the MMCX tool that comes with the Timeless to work, then a good fingernail will work; insert fingernail, press in and up, away from earpiece and it should just pop right off. I certainly wouldn't recommend pulling on the connector, or even the pinch between your fingers method (at least until you get the "feel" of it), that is where the potential for damage can come from if they aren't pulled straight off.

I've already ordered Ostry Eartips, thanks. My Timeless didn't have a special tool to remove MMCX connectors, but fortunately Fiio FD5, FD3 and Audiosense AQ0 did. So I've got 3 of them. But there's an issue that because of Timeless has that round decorative faceplate, it's not that easy to grab the connector with a tool. But it's still works though.
I've tried a pure copper cable a couple of days ago, and I'm not sure if I can hear the difference.
For now I'm afraid the main reason for me why it's hard to listen Timeless is simple driver resonanse, that appears to be too close to the ear. The only thing I can try is to use bigger eartips so the earphone will be not so close, but then the treble sharpness might appear again. I hope that Ostry eartips will hape in some way when they arrive.

 

[logiatype]

I've already ordered Ostry Eartips, thanks. My Timeless didn't have a special tool to remove MMCX connectors, but fortunately Fiio FD5, FD3 and Audiosense AQ0 did. So I've got 3 of them. But there's an issue that because of Timeless has that round decorative faceplate, it's not that easy to grab the connector with a tool. But it's still works though.
I've tried a pure copper cable a couple of days ago, and I'm not sure if I can hear the difference.
For now I'm afraid the main reason for me why it's hard to listen Timeless is simple driver resonanse, that appears to be too close to the ear. The only thing I can try is to use bigger eartips so the earphone will be not so close, but then the treble sharpness might appear again. I hope that Ostry eartips will hape in some way when they arrive.

Hold the round part and approach with the tool via the nozzle direction. The tool needs to be upside down (ie the flat part should be facing downwards). Works very well.

 

[samandhi]

I've already ordered Ostry Eartips, thanks. My Timeless didn't have a special tool to remove MMCX connectors, but fortunately Fiio FD5, FD3 and Audiosense AQ0 did. So I've got 3 of them. But there's an issue that because of Timeless has that round decorative faceplate, it's not that easy to grab the connector with a tool. But it's still works though.
I've tried a pure copper cable a couple of days ago, and I'm not sure if I can hear the difference.
For now I'm afraid the main reason for me why it's hard to listen Timeless is simple driver resonanse, that appears to be too close to the ear. The only thing I can try is to use bigger eartips so the earphone will be not so close, but then the treble sharpness might appear again. I hope that Ostry eartips will hape in some way when they arrive.

Though I am not sure if the stem is long enough, you COULD try and extend the tip out a bit by taking an old tip, and cutting out the core. Then, cut that in half, and use it as a spacer. I've had to do this on a couple of other IEMs I have because they are too short to fit into my ear (I don't do well with tips simply setting on my ear hole); mainly the Tinhifi P1 and the DUNU DK2001.

 

[Ryoidenshi]

Though I am not sure if the stem is long enough, you COULD try and extend the tip out a bit by taking an old tip, and cutting out the core. Then, cut that in half, and use it as a spacer. I've had to do this on a couple of other IEMs I have because they are too short to fit into my ear (I don't do well with tips simply setting on my ear hole); mainly the Tinhifi P1 and the DUNU DK2001.

Hold the round part and approach with the tool via the nozzle direction. The tool needs to be upside down (ie the flat part should be facing downwards). Works very well.

I tried to find an actual reason of my problem, and it looks like I did. On the other site I have read that all of the planars have hard driver resonanse when they're semi-open. The solution was to make them closed, but there will be decreasing in soundstage. I thought that I could try to close some vent holes, starting from 2 of 3. At first I thought that the guitars became too laid back and the treble became more powerful, so I tried to tape only one of 3 vents... And I kinda like the result. I came to tighter bass, a little laid back guitars, a little more forward vocals and a little increased treble which I could fix by using different eartips. And the most pleasant improvement is that I think that I almost don't feel that tension anymore. The guitars virtually sound a litte outside of the ear canal, and they also sound a bit warmer. So I think I finally can tolerate my Timeless, but the resonanse is not gone completely, it's just not that devastating for me. But I won't say that it's a clear win now, I'll try to listen more and make a final conclusion later.

 

[samandhi]

I tried to find an actual reason of my problem, and it looks like I did. On the other site I have read that all of the planars have hard driver resonanse when they're semi-open. The solution was to make them closed, but there will be decreasing in soundstage. I thought that I could try to close some vent holes, starting from 2 of 3. At first I thought that the guitars became too laid back and the treble became more powerful, so I tried to tape only one of 3 vents... And I kinda like the result. I came to tighter bass, a little laid back guitars, a little more forward vocals and a little increased treble which I could fix by using different eartips. And the most pleasant improvement is that I think that I almost don't feel that tension anymore. The guitars virtually sound a litte outside of the ear canal, and they also sound a bit warmer. So I think I finally can tolerate my Timeless, but the resonanse is not gone completely, it's just not that devastating for me. But I won't say that it's a clear win now, I'll try to listen more and make a final conclusion later.

Excellent! Sounds like you are getting closer to your desired target.

 

[Ryoidenshi]

I'm just curious how many revisions of Timeless there are, and what's the difference between them? I saw one with only flower-shaped metallic grill in the nozzle, one with dark mesh under that grill, and mine has a white mesh.