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64 vs. 128 vs/ 256 MP3 listening test in Cognitive Daily

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by steve999, Sep 10, 2008.
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  1. castleofargh Contributor
    I was making a joke, nothing more to my post. :wink:
  2. Steve999

    Except I really do have Bigshot’s recommended Sammy Davis, Jr., CD in hand.:ok_hand:
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
    sonitus mirus and bfreedma like this.
  3. Steve999
    Okay, so the Golden State Warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers played tonight. It was in Cleveland. The game is over. It was a good game.

    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
    bfreedma likes this.
  4. Steve999
    Bye everyone. It’s been fun for a few days. I’ll see you in another ten years. Take care and best wishes.


    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  5. danadam
    What? Without results from Sammy Davis CD testing?
  6. Steve999
    Okay, I will post again, but only because the Capitals have just won the Stanley Cup! I will not mention the score because at this point that is just lossy data. What people will remember is that the Capitals won the Stanley Cup in 2018!

    I'll keep you posted on the CD and the ABXing, etc. So far I have only listened to the CD and 256 VBR AAC rips a few times for purposes of enjoying the music and looking at the characteristics of the audio in Foobar2000. Fascinating CD!

    ROCK THE RED! LET'S GO CAPS!:ksc75smile:
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    Glmoneydawg likes this.
  7. Steve999
    I joined head-if in 2002. You can do the math. You are a bright guy. And I don’t think in that time you will find that I have ever once personally insulted anyone on head-fi. Poked fun at people in hopefully good spirits, or at least with light intentions, including at myself, yes, like right now. Parodied nonsense discussions, which I see still plague this place, yes. Made a serious point, with a lighthearted jab, well I’ve tried, like right now. Gotten carried away and run amok, well, yeah, guilty as charged. Taken things people said out of context and played totally unfair? Absolutely, like right now. That’s my move. Tried to back up a little if I hurt someone’s feelings? Well, yes, underneath this rough veneer I’m just a big teddy bear. Admitted when I was wrong? I make a point of it. But have I personally insulted anyone? No. Did I ask them if they were 10? No, nothing like that. Have my threads devolved into personal insults? Nope. And I shall guide this thread along those lines. Post at your peril here. Make sense and play nice or I may just make fun of you. And just to keep it fair you can make fun of me. If you dare. I am in the house. Steve999. smooth, DARK. So watch it. I’ll keep it in this thread from now on. This is my thread.

    So, back to business.

    I was looking in Foobar2000 at the spectogram for music on my new (used) CD, Sammy Davis, Jr., the Decca Years, and it showed a decent amount of what appeared to be musical content in the 17-20 kHz range. That really surprised me because the recordings are from the 1950s. Is that realistic? There seemed to be about 35 dB of dynamic range with additional transient peaks. There was lots of content in the 50 hertz area. There was no content in the 20 kHz to 22 kHz range. Is that because of “16/44” ? I don’t think there was any clipping or chopping off peaks. There seemed to be ample headroom. I am quite sure I don’t hear anything in the 17 kHz to 20 kHz range so I think as a practical matter that is lost on me anyway. I know a string bass goes down to about 41 hertz and a piano I think to about 27 hertz. I am not sure if Foobar2000 is accurate or if I am reading it accurately. Unfortunately the spectrogram in Foobar2000 does not go below 50 hz so I can’t see what’s down there unless I use another tool.

    So was this likely remastered? Did they do a good job of it? I sincerely don’t know. The recodings are from the 1950s so of course there Is a substantial limit to the overall sound quality.

    This may illustrate my lack of expertise. It is genuine and sincere. I am respectful of the knowledge I see here.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  8. bigshot
    They had hifi in the 50s
  9. Steve999
    Oh well that settles that then.

  10. Steve999
    For those who read this thread (which are apparently far and few between), I thought I'd comment on the CD a little before I obsess over objectively ascertained compression artifacts, which to be honest, looks like a bit of a chore at this point.

    Here is the AllMusic review:

    AllMusic Review by Cub Koda
    Long before he became a kitsch Vegas cliché, Sammy Davis, Jr. was simply the finest all-around entertainer in show business. That talent is on open display in this delightful collection of the best of Sammy's Decca sides. Running from 1954's breakthrough hit, "Hey There," to 1959's "Change Partners," Davis finally found a groove to sell his immense talent on disc after a dismal start at Capitol Records in the late 1940s. While everything is in a brassy over-the-top Broadway style, his take on "Because of You" is straight out of his nightclub act, complete with star-turn impressions. If you've only heard the Nehru-jacket-and-beads Sammy Davis, Jr., then this set is well worth investigating.

    My additional "insights":

    I had no idea about all this about Sammy Davis, Jr.

    For sound quality, in my view, the sound is pushed toward the treble, a little more than would be optimal, to put it in my very subjective terms. I am hugely surprised by the dynamic range and frequency range of the recording (as seen on Foobar), given that these recordings were made from 1954-1959. It can't rival a modern recording for sound quality but the recordings seem to have been made to quite a high standard for their time.

    The CD booklet contains a fascinating six-page small print narrative about Sammy Davis, Jr., with all sorts of surprises for the uninitiated (like me).

    The version of "My Funny Valentine" is just beautiful, to the point of goosebumps. It's a jazz trio with a little extremely tasteful jazz guitar, no strings or brass getting in the way, and it is just beautiful. I wish there were whole albums of him performing in this setting. The CD also reveals that Sammy Davis, Jr., does an amazing Jimmy Steward impression, among many other things. It is a bag full of surprises. It is tough to get your arms around, because the whole time you are saying, huh? Where'd that from?

    It has lots of string and brass arrangements which are not as creative as I would have preferred, but I am pretty into jazz so I am kind of picky about such things. You do have some great trumpets and some nice sax work though.

    My overall impression is, wow, I had no idea Sammy Davis, Jr., was a serious musician. This CD is musically complex enough that it will taken several listens to make sure I am catching everything. It is extremely well-suited to repeated listening. There was a ton more to him than "The Candy Man." I had no idea.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    sonitus mirus likes this.
  11. bigshot
    Early Johnny Ray is phenomenal... Cry, Just Walkin in the Rain, Soliloquy of a Fool. One interesting thing is that Johnny Ray had a great deal of trouble performing live because he was almost stone deaf. He heard his own voice through bone conduction, and in order to keep in sync with the band, they had to include a bass drum so he could feel the beat. At the beginning of this video, he has a little trouble. You can hear the drummer try to help him out. By the end, the band is following him, as they should. Ray was hugely popular in the transition time between Sinatra and Elvis. He was the first singer to take the mike off the mike stand and hold it in his hand as he sung.

    Check out Bobby Darrin too, particularly his live album and the one with Beyond the Sea and Artificial Flowers. Darrin knew he had a terminal disease that would make his life short, so he grabbed on with both hands and worked furiously to do all the things he wanted to do before he died. Incredible passion for his art.

    If you want CD recommendations on this stuff let me know.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  12. Glmoneydawg
    Some of the blues recordings from the 50's are great.....pretty minimalist stuff but perfect for small scale blues.
  13. Steve999
    Yeah, if you guys would give me some CD recommendations for that period that would be great, I'm all in!

    From those years I've always listened to jazz, and tons of it (probably my first passion in music), but I'm not in tune to the popular singers or blues from that period.

    Okay, I'm going to do 64 kbs rips of the Sammy Davis Jr., CD. Just to keep the thread on topic. :)

  14. Steve999
    I recorded the Sammy Davis, Jr., at Frau, what wound up being 12 kbps "highest quality" vbr mp3. Warped sense of humor. But it's actually listenable. It just sounds a little nasal and like a portable radio (without ABXing, but you may choose to accept my claim anyway), but definitely better fidelity than that. The high frequency music content is greatly reduced above 5 khz and the upper reach is around 12 khz, whereas there was lots of HF content in the 17-20 khz area on the CD and the 256 VBR AAC rips.

    Here's My Funny Valentine from the CD:

    This totally knocks me out. I'm going to post it in the music thread. I tracked back from the Decca Years CD back to the original albums hoping that the whole thing was in a jazz quartet format but the rest of the original album is saturated with strings and kind of bland horn arrangements. I'm going to look around for an LP he did in a small group setting.

    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  15. bigshot
    I told you what to do to detect what I was talking about. Don't use VBR. Use CBR. Encode in Frauenhofer at 96 first so you can identify the trouble spots. Then encode in progressively higher rates and check the same spots in each one. At some point it will disappear. That is your line of transparency. You shouldn't be listening for reduced high end. That is a given at low bitrates. Listen for compression artifacting. Print this out if it will help you when you're trying it.

    Ultimate Bobby Darrin https://amzn.to/2sJTrXE
    Ray Charles Modern Sounds in Country & Western Music 1 & 2 https://amzn.to/2xXOqzT
    Louis Prima Capitol Collectors Series https://amzn.to/2kWJjX8
    Kay Starr Complete Lamplighter Sessions https://amzn.to/2JA1oVx
    Johnny Ray The Very Best Of https://amzn.to/2y4jb5U[/SIZE]
    Dinah Washington Essential https://amzn.to/2Jwj8kV

    Every one of these is a 10
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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