[necropimp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpalsm /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello everyone, I'm looking for a good set of 5.1 computer speakers that will handle music as well as it handles movies and games. Optical input would be great

unless your soundcard will encode all 5.1ch output to an AC3 or DTS signal you will lose 5.1ch in most if not all of your games that support 5.1ch and from what i'm reading about the x-fi surround 5.1 it does not

so you would be better off with either a set of 5.1ch PC speakers with analog connections or a receiver with 5.1ch analog inputs

just something nobody else seems to have commented on

 

[obobskivich]

I've yet to have an issue with 5.1 output via digital from my X-Fi, but DDL *does* help the world out (the card will still do passthrough, and various other fun things in addition to DDL)

I do generally agree that analog -> receiver is probably a better route, as some users report features not being able to enable on X-Fi or Audigy via digital (I've read mixed complaints about CMSS/EAX not enabling via digital, I have no issues, but I don't know what I've done to "fix" the problem

)

that, and you aren't likely to be subjected to whatever processing the receiver feels like adding (or, in the event that the receiver has a crumb D/A, that pleasant surprise)

 

[necropimp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've yet to have an issue with 5.1 output via digital from my X-Fi, but DDL *does* help the world out (the card will still do passthrough, and various other fun things in addition to DDL)

x-fi doesn't do DDL last i checked and last i checked the only way to transmit 5.1ch audio over SPDIF is with DD or DTS

so i'm assuming you don't play many games... games with multichannel audio options can only output 5.1ch over SPDIF if the soundcard does DDL which the X-fi does not

 

[Kpalsm]

I think I've pretty well decided on getting a receiver, so I'll be running an HDMI cable from my laptop to that receiver, I believe the HDMI port on my laptop will pass anything that's in 5.1 through to my receiver (IE if I set a game to 5.1 it'll output 5.1 to my receiver, I know for a fact that multichannel DVDs will work). Thanks for that though you made a good point. I've never seen 5.1 analog inputs on a HT receiver, is that a new thing or is it mainly on high end AVRs? I've not looked at anything past the $800 range

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by necropimp /img/forum/go_quote.gif x-fi doesn't do DDL last i checked and last i checked the only way to transmit 5.1ch audio over SPDIF is with DD or DTS so i'm assuming you don't play many games... games with multichannel audio options can only output 5.1ch over SPDIF if the soundcard does DDL which the X-fi does not

yes it does

so does Audigy, Audigy 2, Audigy 2 ZS, and Audigy 4

so does X-Fi Prelude

so, uh, what was your point again?

oh, and Audigy and X-Fi will also do DTS via S/PDIF, Audigy series giving you direct access to DTS ES and Neo:6 (input and output), X-Fi needs some setting flagged (I've never played with DTS from my X-Fi, or it might need the DTS Connect package (to do Neo:6, not to do passthrough))

they also support DD-EX and DTS bistreams being passed into them, and decoding that to analog (assuming you flag your settings right), or looping it through (why you'd loop a DVD player or similar through the card "untouched" is beyond me, but you could (maybe if you were short inputs on your reciever it would help))

so, you assumed wrong on all counts

@ kpalsm:
what receivers have you looked at? most all h/k's have discrete 6 or 8ch inputs, same for most decent Yamaha's, Denon's, etc
it isn't really a "new" feature (if you consider ~1999 "new", then sure) though

 

[Kpalsm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ kpalsm: what receivers have you looked at?

Mainly Onkyo lately, I really like the feature set of Onkyo's mid range AVRs so I haven't really been looking at Yamaha or Denon or HK very much. I don't know how I feel about HK because most of their receivers have low wattage outputs unless you spend over a grand. I don't know if that means that they won't go very loud (assume I'm driving speakers with 100 watt capacity) compared to the Onkyo receiver I want to get which is I think 90 WPC.

 

[obobskivich]

there is nothing wrong with "going loud" from an h/k receiver (I'm sure iriver will have something to say about this (he's a big HI fan from what I've seen)), the wattage #'s are honest, vs that Onkyo which is likely measured at 1ch driven or 2ch driven (if you seriously believed that a ~$350 A/V receiver will give you 90x7 while only drawing ~450W at the wall, I'm sorry)

look at other brands, Onkyo is alright, but theres so many other options (Outlaw, Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, h/k, Denon, Rotel, NAD, Technics, etc)

 

[Kpalsm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif there is nothing wrong with "going loud" from an h/k receiver (I'm sure iriver will have something to say about this (he's a big HI fan from what I've seen)), the wattage #'s are honest, vs that Onkyo which is likely measured at 1ch driven or 2ch driven (if you seriously believed that a ~$350 A/V receiver will give you 90x7 while only drawing ~450W at the wall, I'm sorry) look at other brands, Onkyo is alright, but theres so many other options (Outlaw, Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, h/k, Denon, Rotel, NAD, Technics, etc)

This is the receiver I was looking at getting, it's a bit more than ~$350. Yeah you're right that I shouldn't expect a receiver to put out more than it takes in, I guess that would kind of be a little impossible eh? I always found that odd...

For the price of the AVR I want I haven't seen another that I liked as much. I've never used Onkyo products before so don't think that I've not looked at others just because I like Onkyo, but like I've said before it's going to be a long time before I buy any of this stuff. First I need to start saving up for a TV, and even before then I have a Mastodon concert to go to, so that's going to take a chunk out of my budget

I've got plenty of time to look around and compare, I'm sure I'd be happy with the Onkyo if I got it though.

Also I'm mainly looking at products I can buy locally, and ideally not from a big name store like Best Buy (I prefer to deal with smaller more local companies, they tend to have salespeople who know more about what they sell and that kind of thing); so far I've been looking at Visions and Otto's Audio Video Unlimited.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

yes it does

Actually they don't. Not unless Creative have added this feature in newer drivers, which I doubt.

Standard multi-channel from DVD Movies is NOT Dolby Digital Live. Dolby Digital Live is realtime encoding of game audio (with EAX) as multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS. So you get multi-channel audio, rather than just stereo requiring a DSP on your av amp to expand it back up.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually they don't. Not unless Creative have added this feature in newer drivers, which I doubt. Standard multi-channel from DVD Movies is NOT Dolby Digital Live. Dolby Digital Live is realtime encoding of game audio (with EAX) as multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS. So you get multi-channel audio, rather than just stereo requiring a DSP on your av amp to expand it back up.

Actually, yes they do.
does anybody bother to actually check facts, or do you just wanna cry and whine?

Audigy 1 through X-Fi all support DDL and DTS, passthrough and "real DDL" (and thanks, I know what DDL is, I sort of uh, delinated in my post, but since reading for comprehensions is apparently too much to ask)

and X-Fi Prelude of course has supported DDL for around a year now

not that you'll even read links which prove my point (because then you'd have to admit being wrong):
http://buy.soundblaster.com/_creativ...SR6PAKH5DGY6SD
http://buy.soundblaster.com/_creativ...DDN6Z2H2ADDEZD

no idea on inclusion for "free", A1 -> A4 will require the newest driver (released Mar 2009), X-Fi has supported it for a while, and Prelude comes out of the box with it (they include the DDL package in their drivers)

 

[iriverdude]

Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer

No mention of DD Live, I've got the Extreme Music which is similar to that, mine is slightly higher model. Of course they support Dolby Digital, DTS pass through. Just not EAX Live to DD/DTS encoding.

 

[obobskivich]

their link seems to indicate that not only is EAX parsed to DDL (and/or DTS, for X-Fi), but also CMSS resampled audio, where aren't you reading?

 

[iriverdude]

CMSS is *****
It is not Live encoding. Please stop being the rabid Creative fanboy, I've got a X-Fi and nothing in settings about Dolby Digital Live encoding. When playing a game, I do not get discrete multi-channel through the digital out.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif CMSS is ***** It is not Live encoding. Please stop being the rabid Creative fanboy, I've got a X-Fi and nothing in settings about Dolby Digital Live encoding. When playing a game, I do not get discrete multi-channel through the digital out.

did I say it was passing CMSS effects over S/PDIF directly? no.

I said it will encode CMSS upsampled/resampled into DDL (or DTS in the case of X-Fi, this option seems unavailable (at least at present) for the Audigy boards (yet they do offer Neo:6 processing, so there may be hope for a future release addting DTS NeoC to them as well))

it will also pass EAX effects, and whatever other audio through DDL or DTS (on X-Fi)

I've had this working on my Prelude since purchase (as I said, it is included by Auzen in their driver package), it works brilliantly

now explain to me:
how is sharing experience based on fact "being a rabid fanboy"? I'd really love to hear that one

 

[iriverdude]

lol they're not free included with the drivers so not valid.