[BassicScience]

I think part of the problem are people's expectations after reading so many head-fi posts about Susvara out of more powerful amplifiers. I for one, tried Susvara on my Bartok and liked it enough that I wanted to purchase it. But, people were telling me that Bartok's 2.8W into 66 Ohm solid state amplifier is under powering it, so I added an external amplifier Viva Egoista 845 (15W per channel monster) and heard very little difference, that would warrant the 12.5k EUR asking price. I also agree fully with @smodtactical 's impressions about 1266 vs Susvara out of Bartok and also, that it did not change much after trying them out of Viva. Susvara's soundstage was more intimate in comparison to 1266 and the detail seemed less in my face with Susvara, compared to 1266. I loved Susvara's mids, so much so that I almost purchased them, but when I heard 1266 out of Riviera AIC-10, I changed my mind and purchased that instead, as it brought warmth and forwardness to 1266 mids, and "fixed" its gaps. Now I have Bartok for EDM and Riviera for everything else. I know this reads as an Abyss fanboy, but please recognise that I did have Susvara for 2 weeks of extensive listening sessions (I took some days off from work to give it real go) and I did try more powerful amplifier as well, to ensure I am not "under powering" Susvaras.

I appreciate your sharing your experience. I've never heard the Viva Egoista, but it's a logical fallacy to audition a single amp and then generalize that experience to all amps.

But then why did you say "If you were not driving the Susvara with a dedicated amp, it's not entirely shocking that you were "scratching your head"

?

I was more responding to your most recent comparison, which would seem to put the Susvara at a disadvantage given that it's the hardest of the three cans to drive. The fact that you auditioned it in the past with a speaker amp and still didn't love it isn't really doesn't tell me much in isolation. The other possibility is you just don't like the sound of the Susvara as much as I (and many others) do. I'd really need some more context to put your review in proper perspective. What kind of music do you like, for starters? I listen to metal about once a month, if that. A lot of the TC lovers here are big-time metal fans.

 

[smodtactical]

I think part of the problem are people's expectations after reading so many head-fi posts about Susvara out of more powerful amplifiers. I for one, tried Susvara on my Bartok and liked it enough that I wanted to purchase it. But, people were telling me that Bartok's 2.8W into 66 Ohm solid state amplifier is under powering it, so I added an external amplifier Viva Egoista 845 (15W per channel monster) and heard very little difference, that would warrant the 12.5k EUR asking price. I also agree fully with @smodtactical 's impressions about 1266 vs Susvara out of Bartok and also, that it did not change much after trying them out of Viva. Susvara's soundstage was more intimate in comparison to 1266 and the detail seemed less in my face with Susvara, compared to 1266. I loved Susvara's mids, so much so that I almost purchased them, but when I heard 1266 out of Riviera AIC-10, I changed my mind and purchased that instead, as it brought warmth and forwardness to 1266 mids, and "fixed" its gaps. Now I have Bartok for EDM and Riviera for everything else. I know this reads as an Abyss fanboy, but please recognise that I did have Susvara for 2 weeks of extensive listening sessions (I took some days off from work to give it real go) and I did try more powerful amplifier as well, to ensure I am not "under powering" Susvaras.

Smart move imo.

TC represents a great canvas with immense technical performance on which you can paint and shape a sonic image with your chain and cabling.

 

[nwavesailor]

Wow. The Soli P is that good, huh?

Lol. And here I was looking for a similar level performer to the Sus and TC, with good bass, and some V-shaped fun.

I have the P and susvara. I'd give the P a slight edge in bass, would be happy with either hp and I find they get almost equal use.
I am using the XLR's withTT2 for SS and a Bigger Ben with 5 watts at 32 ohm using KT88's.

 

[smodtactical]

I was more responding to your most recent comparison, which would seem to put the Susvara at a disadvantage given that it's the hardest of the three cans to drive. The fact that you auditioned it in the past with a speaker amp and still didn't love it isn't really doesn't tell me much in isolation. The other possibility is you just don't like the sound of the Susvara as much as I (and many others) do. I'd really need some more context to put your review in proper perspective. What kind of music do you like, for starters? I listen to metal about once a month, if that. A lot of the TC lovers here are big-time metal fans.

Alright, I listen to Techno, house, Jazz, Chillhop, classical, lots of female vocals, ambient especially space ambient.

I hate rock/metal etc.

I think people are maybe misunderstanding me. I think the Susvara is a fantastic headphone. It pairs richness, smoothness with great detail in a pretty unique way. But the issue is next to the resolution / soundstage monster that is Abyss 1266 TC... I am left wanting when I go to susvara. I understand that TC is not meant to be a laid back relaxing headphone and Susvara fits that role better. But a $4-6k headphone to me is just too big of an ask for a laid back relaxed headphone. At that price level I expect it to compete technically with the best thats out there and to me it doesn't (at least against the TC and to a lesser extent even the Soli P).

I respect though that its an extremely popular headphone among TOTL can owners and thus I want to understand people like you better and figure out what I am missing.

 

[mammal]

I appreciate your sharing your experience. I've never heard the Viva Egoista, but it's a logical fallacy to audition a single amp and then generalize that experience to all amps.

I absolutely agree with your point about generalizing to how Susvara would sound with other amplifier. But worth pointing out that if one is not satisfied with Susvara out of 2 different (solid state and tube) amplifiers (in comparison to another headphone, in my case 1266, Valkyria and Utopia), it cannot be expected that said person will keep trying more and more amplifiers. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not trying to tell you don't enjoy your Susvara, just sharing my personal journey of what I have learned by directly comparing all above mentioned headphones, and I believe OP is trying to do the same, for those who own our gear and are considering Susvara, to know what to expect out of that particular gear. This does not mean that if you own (and like) Susvara, you shouldn't be auditioning other amplifiers (like I did with 1266).

What struck me most was a lack of coherence. I kind of have to laugh when people say its midrange is weak, but yet it's a great headphone. The mids are where most of the music is! Don't get me wrong, I love great bass as much as anyone, but that can't be the only thing a headphone excels at. I'll give the TC one more shot at Canjam, hopefully with one of the SS amps people here claim really drive it well.

The lack of coherence point, I know what you mean. I first noticed it when I compared 1266 against Spirit Torino Valkyria, which presented music in my more coherence, where as 1266 was more like "here is your bass", "here are your mids" and "here is your treble". As for mids, I have to agree again, those are cold distant sounding, like a singer standing in a hallway, very recessed and metallic mids. And that was my motivation to hunt down a different headphone (Utopia for being intimate, Valkyria for being dark, Susvara for being natural), but when comparing them side by side, I kept going back to my flawed 1266. I almost purchased Susvaras, as the headphone for mids, but since I had planned to audition 009S sometimes in August, I wanted to wait. I even tried "fixing" 1266 and powering Susvara with a tube amplifier, that is more transparent than Bartok itself, but again, left me wondering if there is a better way. What I was after was Sennheiser HE-1 mids, very luxurious sounding, intimate soundstage, great coherence. I got lucky that a fellow head-fier had Riviera AIC-10, and after he brought it to my place, I fell in love with them. It "fixed" 1266 mids, they stayed resolving and layered, but forward and warm now, exactly like I remember HE-1. I still prefer Bartok for cold and spacious EDM, but for anything that lives in mids, I prefer Riviera now.

 

[BassicScience]

Alright, I listen to Techno, house, Jazz, Chillhop, classical, lots of female vocals, ambient especially space ambient.

I hate rock/metal etc.

I think people are maybe misunderstanding me. I think the Susvara is a fantastic headphone. It pairs richness, smoothness with great detail in a pretty unique way. But the issue is next to the resolution / soundstage monster that is Abyss 1266 TC... I am left wanting when I go to susvara. I understand that TC is not meant to be a laid back relaxing headphone and Susvara fits that role better. But a $4-6k headphone to me is just too big of an ask for a laid back relaxed headphone. At that price level I expect it to compete technically with the best thats out there and to me it doesn't (at least against the TC and to a lesser extent even the Soli P).

I respect though that its an extremely popular headphone among TOTL can owners and thus I want to understand people like you better and figure out what I am missing.

OK, thanks for filling in that background. FYI, these days I listen to a lot of acoustic jazz, chill, trip hop, classic progressive rock, 70s/80s new wave, (mostly baroque) chamber music, alternative rock, male/female singer/songwriters, a smattering of rap and metal, etc. I find the Susvara works wonderfully for everything I listen to. I also own Vandersteen Treo CT speakers, which I prefer to any headphone, but my wife hardly ever leaves the house anymore these days and she isn't into jazz or a lot of other genres I like.

While I get that you have a stylistic preference for the TC over the Susvara, I don't agree that the Susvara isn't highly competent technically. The amount of resolution on offer is frankly stunning to my ear. I'm also completely satisfied with the soundstage size and imaging precision. Maybe the TC exceeds Susvara in those parameters, but I'm not willing to sacrifice tonal accuracy and balance to get more of something I'm already happy with. Again, I've never owned the TC, so I can only go by my previous auditions. I really am looking forward to giving them another shot at Canjam in a couple of months. Meanwhile, if anybody wants to send me their pair for a week, I will be happy to write a more informed comparison.

 

[nwavesailor]

For the record, I do not own nor have I heard the TC.

I have had the susvara and P as my 2 main hp since March.
I find the P less detailed and more laid back of the two and I find the better staging to go to the susvara as well.

I enjoy both but if I could only have one it would be the susvara.

I don't listen to much of the music the OP lists. The only crossover we have is jazz, some classical and female vocals.

My ears / your ears, my preferences / your preferences I suppose

 

[Sajid Amit]

Slightly off-topic. I started my morning today with a track list comprising some Hendrix, Hans Zimmer, Mastodon, and some REM (sort of random I know).

Instead of a longer track list, I played the same track list on my Susvaras (haven't used them in a while) in the early morning and then the TC after I was fully awake, lol.

About five hours of headphone listening as I churned out a research proposal.

Love both the HPs.

 

[Articnoise]

Alright, I listen to Techno, house, Jazz, Chillhop, classical, lots of female vocals, ambient especially space ambient.

I hate rock/metal etc.

I think people are maybe misunderstanding me. I think the Susvara is a fantastic headphone. It pairs richness, smoothness with great detail in a pretty unique way. But the issue is next to the resolution / soundstage monster that is Abyss 1266 TC... I am left wanting when I go to susvara. I understand that TC is not meant to be a laid back relaxing headphone and Susvara fits that role better. But a $4-6k headphone to me is just too big of an ask for a laid back relaxed headphone. At that price level I expect it to compete technically with the best thats out there and to me it doesn't (at least against the TC and to a lesser extent even the Soli P).

I respect though that its an extremely popular headphone among TOTL can owners and thus I want to understand people like you better and figure out what I am missing.

I think most understand and agree with the pros and cons you have described. Type of music, SQ preference and how one listen (loudness level, intense) will result that some people hear and prefer different flaws. Because all headphone have some flaws, at least if dissected by audiophiles that are literally comparing one HP's greatest strength to another weakest. I can't personally listen and enjoy a headphone that I hear as sounding artificial and to have a V-shaped sound signature, no matter its other technical strength. With that said I do think that Susvara is a bit too polite and laid back headphone which make it a bit bland to listen to music that is more up tempo and if pushed to play loud. A better and stronger amp will not change its fundamental sound signature, its DNA. A mod HE6 OTOH has its own weakness, but ultimately is an better allround HP for me. I have still not heard TC but didn't like the OG or Phi so I would think that I need to match it with the "right" type of amp to enjoy it and its a bit clinical sounded mids, (which many of the more experienced Headfier says it does). A amp will probable never make TC's mids sound like the Susvara or LCD4 but maybe like HE6?

 

[tunes]

Slightly off-topic. I started my morning today with a track list comprising some Hendrix, Hans Zimmer, Mastodon, and some REM (sort of random I know).

Instead of a longer track list, I played the same track list on my Susvaras (haven't used them in a while) in the early morning and then the TC after I was fully awake, lol.

About five hours of headphone listening as I churned out a research proposal.

Love both the HPs.

For those of you who own both the Susvara AND Abyss TC, which one do you reach for most and gets more head time?

 

[BTD1]

Classical music is the only music I listen to. I own the TC, the Solitaire-P (P-SE on order) and the Susvara. I have tired many times to adjust the fit of the TC to get a smoother, less raucous sound. I can’t wear them at all if I am lying down. Comfort is a problem with these. The legendary bass is there, but with classical you need everything to be in balance and, perhaps, more subtle and refined. Even with EQ I could not tame the TC enough for a string quartet or a renaissance, a cappella vocal piece. The Susvara native timbre is smoother and much more subtle. The sound registers are more in balance without resorting to EQ. The Solitaire-P seems to have the musicality and beauty of sound from the Susvara and adds great depth, a rich but clean bass, and an overall warmth that is unique among the headphones I have listened to. Since acquiring the Solitaire Ps my Abyss TCs sit unused. My impression is that assuming adequate amplification, the style of music you listen to will dictate which of these 3 headphones you prefer more than any thing else,

 

[yolosauce]

The Abyss has superior soundstage and bass compared to the Susvara but I couldn't get past its dry/clinical tonality. It sucked the life out of my favorite songs. Comfort is another factor that I prefer with the Susvara. I can wear them for hours with no issues. If I find myself wanting soundstage and bass i'll turn on the Buchardt A700

 

[jlbrach]

Also, I don’t think the Susvaras sound small and feeble at all when they are amped adequately. I’ve not tried them with the Bartok, but looking at their power output, I think that perhaps the Bartok is not powerful enough for the Susvaras. I mean, people use speaker amps with their Susvaras.

the susvara is a bit confusing to listen to at first...if not properly amped the soundstage can sound a bit small..if amped properly the soundstage takes on a 3 dimensional feel that is unlike other HP's and quite addictive...the TC is fantastic but the susvara is every bit its equal only in different ways..I owned the susvara and sold it only to repurchase another one and come to truly appreciate it since I added the bakoon 13r amp ....

For those of you who own both the Susvara AND Abyss TC, which one do you reach for most and gets more head time?

in the past it was the TC so much so that I had sold the susvara but I bought them back and now reach for them both equally....love the susvara and find them the better in several scenarios....both are great and anyone who badmouths either one is kidding themselves...liking one better than the other subjectively is well and good because this is a subjective hobby but badmouthing or downgrading either is silly and foolish

 

[vonBaron]

The biggest problem 1266 is putting them correctly on the head, it takes time and patience, but then there is only delight. Susvars require a high power amplifier, in my opinion the Bartok will not drive them 100% (I heard it from a few friends who listened to this call), I have never heard the Solitaire P.
I rather gave up chasing Susvara, the Utopia + 1266 TC combo gives me 100% satisfaction. Susvara cost fortune in my country compare even to 1266 TC and Utopia.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I really don't get what's so controversial in the original few posts lol.

The TC and Sr1a... and even the 009 are more resolving/detailed than the Susvara. They both also are more open, with better imaging and staging. We're talking small differences ultimately. Susvara really doesn't have a category it's "best" at, rather it's the best all rounder, coming REALLY close to best in class in every category across the board. But I think it's pretty much agreed upon across all of the most detailed or well thought out reviews that the TC is more resolving. There's just no denying that.