3 way shootout: Abyss TC, Solitaire P and Susvara (off of DCS bartok)

[smodtactical]

Just had a listening session today with a friend from head fi (will let him reply if he wants to be identified) comparing these headphones. Findings as below (please note that the solitaire P was at a disadvantage with only a SE cable out of the bartok, the other two were balanced and high quality silver dragon cables):

Abyss TC presented the biggest sound stage with the best imaging. Images seemed very precise and had their own air and space around them. This made the music much more immersive. Tonally the TC was warmer than soli P but cooler than Susvara. TC also had the most detailed and resolved sound. There was just this incredible 3d clarity to the sound that the other 2 headphones could not match.

Solitaire P also was very detailed and fast. It had an excellent amount of mid bass and bass extension but possibly not quite at the level of TC. In terms of resolution, imaging and soundstage I found P to be a noticeable step down from TC especially with regards to spaciousness and distinctness of sounds in the sound field. I also found at times the treble was a bit hot and initially when I heard solitaire P in isolation I felt that was probably just the song. But going back to the TC there was a smoother more refined top end extension that allowed 100% of the detail to come through without that slight brightness/harshness.

Susvara was much different than the other two. Much more laid back, relaxed and FAR smaller sounding. It still sounded great... detailed, fast and had probably the best timbre. Its mid range had a great sweetness to it but for me it lagged behind too much in terms of speed, staging, imaging. I can see someone who just wants to relax and not be bombarded with too much detail and an overly engaging sound like this susvara. The bass was well extended but not as impactful or heavy handed as the TC or SoliP.

Overall please note that all 3 headphones are fantastic and will suit different ears and use cases. But for me TC is the headphone to beat that I can see being a great all rounder.

Build of the TC was superior but all 3 are well made. Not a fan of the Soli P adjustment mechanism which doesn't feel as solid as TC or even susvara. Solitaire P was more comfortable than TC. The susvara was the most comfortable on the head.

I would like to compare TC and SoliP again with SoliP having a better/balanced cable off the bartok.

Btw I have compared TC and Susvara off my pass x350.8 speaker amp in the past and found my conclusions basically the same as above. The wild card here is the solitaire P and perhaps it will rise up to match TC with better cabling and being run off the balanced circuit of bartok.

 

[jlbrach]

I would say the description of susvara not having much detail is WAY off...it presents differently but it is as detailed as anything other than the sr1a which is in its own league

 

[smodtactical]

I would say the description of susvara not having much detail is WAY off...it presents differently but it is as detailed as anything other than the sr1a which is in its own league

We are talking about detail in comparison to Abyss TC which itself is probably extremely close to sr1a if not equal. It has great detail but compared to 1266 TC its a solid step below.

 

[jlbrach]

I have all 3...the sr1a is as I said in its own league...the susvara and TC are about the same but just present differently

 

[smodtactical]

I have all 3...the sr1a is as I said in its own league...the susvara and TC are about the same but just present differently

Happy to agree to disagree.

 

[jlbrach]

as is your right lol

 

[Shahrose]

Just had a listening session today with a friend from head fi (will let him reply if he wants to be identified) comparing these headphones. Findings as below (please note that the solitaire P was at a disadvantage with only a SE cable out of the bartok, the other two were balanced and high quality silver dragon cables):

Abyss TC presented the biggest sound stage with the best imaging. Images seemed very precise and had their own air and space around them. This made the music much more immersive. Tonally the TC was warmer than soli P but cooler than Susvara. TC also had the most detailed and resolved sound. There was just this incredible 3d clarity to the sound that the other 2 headphones could not match.

Solitaire P also was very detailed and fast. It had an excellent amount of mid bass and bass extension but possibly not quite at the level of TC. In terms of resolution, imaging and soundstage I found P to be a noticeable step down from TC especially with regards to spaciousness and distinctness of sounds in the sound field. I also found at times the treble was a bit hot and initially when I heard solitaire P in isolation I felt that was probably just the song. But going back to the TC there was a smoother more refined top end extension that allowed 100% of the detail to come through without that slight brightness/harshness.

Susvara was much different than the other two. Much more laid back, relaxed and FAR smaller sounding. It still sounded great... detailed, fast and had probably the best timbre. Its mid range had a great sweetness to it but for me it lagged behind too much in terms of speed, staging, imaging. I can see someone who just wants to relax and not be bombarded with too much detail and an overly engaging sound like this susvara. The bass was well extended but not as impactful or heavy handed as the TC or SoliP.

Overall please note that all 3 headphones are fantastic and will suit different ears and use cases. But for me TC is the headphone to beat that I can see being a great all rounder.

Build of the TC was superior but all 3 are well made. Not a fan of the Soli P adjustment mechanism which doesn't feel as solid as TC or even susvara. Solitaire P was more comfortable than TC. The susvara was the most comfortable on the head.

I would like to compare TC and SoliP again with SoliP having a better/balanced cable off the bartok.

Btw I have compared TC and Susvara off my pass x350.8 speaker amp in the past and found my conclusions basically the same as above. The wild card here is the solitaire P and perhaps it will rise up to match TC with better cabling and being run off the balanced circuit of bartok.

I was with @smodtactical (Ricky) at the store and completely echo his impressions. I can't think of a single point we disagreed on.

Before reading Ricky's detailed post above I quickly noted some points which I'll share below:

"We used the dCS Bartok to power everything.

1) TC is the most resolving with the largest soundstage and bass "scale" plus extension. The Soli P comes second in both categories and Susvara third. This was consistently evident.
2) The Soli P has equally good bass in all but the lowest of registers where the TC's rendition is more speaker-like and larger. Quality-wise, they're about equal (definition, detail, texture), which is to say, excellent. I sensed a little more midbass on the Soli among all three HPs but it's tastefully done and I enjoyed it. The Susvara has a nice punchy bass and good extension but it softens the attack a little compared to the other two.
3) Tonality is more similar among the TC and Soli P than the other cans. The latter was similarly V-shaped in terms of its general voicing but had even more treble sparkle (without being sibilant). The Susvara, in comparison, was the warmest, smoothest and darkest but also the most natural in terms of timbre. I've said it before, but in the context of flagships, the Susvara reminds me of a modern-day HD650. Jack of all trades, Master of some...
4) I could live with any of these, but my preference from this 2-hour comparison was the TC > Soli P > Susvara and this was roughly the technical capability of the HPs as well IMO.

5) Side point: I left feeling my home system was a step above the dCS Bartok and the TC and Susvara scale beyond what the Bartok offers. That being said, the same would likely be true of the Soli P.

 

[smodtactical]

I was with @smodtactical (Ricky) at the store and completely echo his impressions. I can't think of a single point we disagreed on.

Before reading Ricky's detailed post above I quickly noted some points which I'll share below:

"We used the dCS Bartok to power everything.

1) TC is the most resolving with the largest soundstage and bass "scale" plus extension. The Soli P comes second in both categories and Susvara third. This was consistently evident.
2) The Soli P has equally good bass in all but the lowest of registers where the TC's rendition is more speaker-like and larger. Quality-wise, they're about equal (definition, detail, texture), which is to say, excellent. I sensed a little more midbass on the Soli among all three HPs but it's tastefully done and I enjoyed it. The Susvara has a nice punchy bass and good extension but it softens the attack a little compared to the other two.
3) Tonality is more similar among the TC and Soli P than the other cans. The latter was similarly V-shaped in terms of its general voicing but had even more treble sparkle (without being sibilant). The Susvara, in comparison, was the warmest, smoothest and darkest but also the most natural in terms of timbre. I've said it before, but in the context of flagships, the Susvara reminds me of a modern-day HD650. Jack of all trades, Master of some...
4) I could live with any of these, but my preference from this 2-hour comparison was the TC > Soli P > Susvara and this was roughly the technical capability of the HPs as well IMO.

5) Side point: I left feeling my home system was a step above the dCS Bartok and the TC and Susvara scale beyond what the Bartok offers. That being said, the same would likely be true of the Soli P.

Extremely well put by the audiophile master Shahrose.

I am honestly feeling a little more confused after our audition about Susvara to be honest. Let me be clear its still a fantastic sounding headphone. It has a beautiful flowing and liquid sound. But considering its price and what its competing against I have to kind of scratch my head to understand the mountains of praise the headphone gets. If this was a $3000 headphone then I would totally understand but at its msrp (I know can be had for less but still) I just can't help but feel TC and perhaps even Soli P are the better 'all rounder' headphone.

True the TC and Soli P are more exacting and exciting so are less conducive to 'easy listening'. But I find this can be remedied by simply choosing more laid back and relaxed tracks. I know Shahrose mentioned they do better with poorer recordings but again do I really want to pay $4-6k on a headphone because it smooths things out on poor recordings? Shouldn't I be able to accomplish this with a more affordable headphone that still performs really well (ie. ZMF atticus or VC/VO ?).

Perhaps I need to hear susvara with a great tube amp or some other SS amp to hear the true magical ability of it ?

 

[BassicScience]

If you were not driving the Susvara with a dedicated amp, it's not entirely shocking that you were "scratching your head" about why so many people love and praise it, myself included. I'm looking forward to hearing the TC again at the upcoming Canjam LA. I've auditioned it twice and was also "scratching my head" as to why so many people seem to put it on top of the mountain. Once was with the Woo WA33, which is supposed to be a good complement for it. What struck me most was a lack of coherence. I kind of have to laugh when people say its midrange is weak, but yet it's a great headphone. The mids are where most of the music is! Don't get me wrong, I love great bass as much as anyone, but that can't be the only thing a headphone excels at. I'll give the TC one more shot at Canjam, hopefully with one of the SS amps people here claim really drive it well.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate with the legion of TC lovers on these boards. It's entirely possible I'll "see the light" in the future. Or maybe it's just not for me.

 

[Ciggavelli]

If you were not driving the Susvara with a dedicated amp, it's not entirely shocking that you were "scratching your head" about why so many people love and praise it, myself included. I'm looking forward to hearing the TC again at the upcoming Canjam LA. I've auditioned it twice and was also "scratching my head" as to why so many people seem to put it on top of the mountain. Once was with the Woo WA33, which is supposed to be a good complement for it. What struck me most was a lack of coherence. I kind of have to laugh when people say its midrange is weak, but yet it's a great headphone. The mids are where most of the music is! Don't get me wrong, I love great bass as much as anyone, but that can't be the only thing a headphone excels at. I'll give the TC one more shot at Canjam, hopefully with one of the SS amps people here claim really drive it well.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate with the legion of TC lovers on these boards. It's entirely possible I'll "see the light" in the future. Or maybe it's just not for me.

Admittedly I’m a TC lover, but you need a good fit to hear the headphones at their best. Sometimes it takes a while for somebody to get the fit right (it took me a few days of experimenting until I got the fit correct). Once the fit is correct and you pair it with a good headphone amp, I think most people are going to love the TCs. There’s a few posters on here who didn’t like the TCs with their first listen. Almost all of them ended up liking the TCs much more with a proper fit and brain/ear acclimation. I know I’m biased, but give the TCs another chance

Also, I don’t think the Susvaras sound small and feeble at all when they are amped adequately. I’ve not tried them with the Bartok, but looking at their power output, I think that perhaps the Bartok is not powerful enough for the Susvaras. I mean, people use speaker amps with their Susvaras.

 

[smodtactical]

If you were not driving the Susvara with a dedicated amp, it's not entirely shocking that you were "scratching your head" about why so many people love and praise it, myself included. I'm looking forward to hearing the TC again at the upcoming Canjam LA. I've auditioned it twice and was also "scratching my head" as to why so many people seem to put it on top of the mountain. Once was with the Woo WA33, which is supposed to be a good complement for it. What struck me most was a lack of coherence. I kind of have to laugh when people say its midrange is weak, but yet it's a great headphone. The mids are where most of the music is! Don't get me wrong, I love great bass as much as anyone, but that can't be the only thing a headphone excels at. I'll give the TC one more shot at Canjam, hopefully with one of the SS amps people here claim really drive it well.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate with the legion of TC lovers on these boards. It's entirely possible I'll "see the light" in the future. Or maybe it's just not for me.

Not sure if you read the last 2 lines of my original post. I've run the susvara and the TC both off of a 350 watt pass labs amp.

Also, I don’t think the Susvaras sound small and feeble at all when they are amped adequately. I’ve not tried them with the Bartok, but looking at their power output, I think that perhaps the Bartok is not powerful enough for the Susvaras. I mean, people use speaker amps with their Susvaras.

Maybe it isn't. But I compared the two with my x350.8. The conclusions didn't change 1 iota.

 

[Sajid Amit]

I was with @smodtactical (Ricky) at the store and completely echo his impressions. I can't think of a single point we disagreed on.

Before reading Ricky's detailed post above I quickly noted some points which I'll share below:

"We used the dCS Bartok to power everything.

1) TC is the most resolving with the largest soundstage and bass "scale" plus extension. The Soli P comes second in both categories and Susvara third. This was consistently evident.
2) The Soli P has equally good bass in all but the lowest of registers where the TC's rendition is more speaker-like and larger. Quality-wise, they're about equal (definition, detail, texture), which is to say, excellent. I sensed a little more midbass on the Soli among all three HPs but it's tastefully done and I enjoyed it. The Susvara has a nice punchy bass and good extension but it softens the attack a little compared to the other two.
3) Tonality is more similar among the TC and Soli P than the other cans. The latter was similarly V-shaped in terms of its general voicing but had even more treble sparkle (without being sibilant). The Susvara, in comparison, was the warmest, smoothest and darkest but also the most natural in terms of timbre. I've said it before, but in the context of flagships, the Susvara reminds me of a modern-day HD650. Jack of all trades, Master of some...
4) I could live with any of these, but my preference from this 2-hour comparison was the TC > Soli P > Susvara and this was roughly the technical capability of the HPs as well IMO.

5) Side point: I left feeling my home system was a step above the dCS Bartok and the TC and Susvara scale beyond what the Bartok offers. That being said, the same would likely be true of the Soli P.

Wow. The Soli P is that good, huh?

Lol. And here I was looking for a similar level performer to the Sus and TC, with good bass, and some V-shaped fun.

 

[BassicScience]

Not sure if you read the last 2 lines of my original post. I've run the susvara and the TC both off of a 350 watt pass labs amp.

Yeah, I read it. You didn't mention any of the other components in the chain or what kind of music you were listening to when you drove it with the Pass, so hard to know why the Susvara sounded "small" with inferior speed and staging. Again, none of those descriptors remotely describes what I'm hearing in my setup.

 

[mammal]

If you were not driving the Susvara with a dedicated amp, it's not entirely shocking that you were "scratching your head" about why so many people love and praise it, myself included.

I think part of the problem are people's expectations after reading so many head-fi posts about Susvara out of more powerful amplifiers. I for one, tried Susvara on my Bartok and liked it enough that I wanted to purchase it. But, people were telling me that Bartok's 2.8W into 66 Ohm solid state amplifier is under powering it, so I added an external amplifier Viva Egoista 845 (15W per channel monster) and heard very little difference, that would warrant the 12.5k EUR asking price. I also agree fully with @smodtactical 's impressions about 1266 vs Susvara out of Bartok and also, that it did not change much after trying them out of Viva. Susvara's soundstage was more intimate in comparison to 1266 and the detail seemed less in my face with Susvara, compared to 1266. I loved Susvara's mids, so much so that I almost purchased them, but when I heard 1266 out of Riviera AIC-10, I changed my mind and purchased that instead, as it brought warmth and forwardness to 1266 mids, and "fixed" its gaps. Now I have Bartok for EDM and Riviera for everything else. I know this reads as an Abyss fanboy, but please recognise that I did have Susvara for 2 weeks of extensive listening sessions (I took some days off from work to give it real go) and I did try more powerful amplifier as well, to ensure I am not "under powering" Susvaras.

 

[smodtactical]

Yeah, I read it. You didn't mention any of the other components in the chain or what kind of music you were listening to when you drove it with the Pass, so hard to know why the Susvara sounded "small" with inferior speed and staging. Again, none of those descriptors remotely describes what I'm hearing in my setup.

But then why did you say "If you were not driving the Susvara with a dedicated amp, it's not entirely shocking that you were "scratching your head"

?