[jaddie]

I love a theoretical discussion as much as anyone right up until the theoretical position paints the practical position as "wrong", because that makes everything, analog and digital, "wrong" and fatally flawed.  While true in the absolute, it's far from the reality we deal with every day.  I also greatly appreciate perfection, but until we have it, I'm also more than willing to embrace excellence in what we have in our hands, appreciate and enjoy it, flaws and all.
 
16 bit, like any tool, is appropriate for some jobs, and inappropriate for others.  The trick is knowing what tool to buy for the best result without overpaying for one that provides no additional benefit.

 

[UltMusicSnob]

  I love a theoretical discussion as much as anyone right up until the theoretical position paints the practical position as "wrong", because that makes everything, analog and digital, "wrong" and fatally flawed.  While true in the absolute, it's far from the reality we deal with every day.  I also greatly appreciate perfection, but until we have it, I'm also more than willing to embrace excellence in what we have in our hands, appreciate and enjoy it, flaws and all.
 
16 bit, like any tool, is appropriate for some jobs, and inappropriate for others.  The trick is knowing what tool to buy for the best result without overpaying for one that provides no additional benefit.

I'm sure this has been covered before, but, for example, making ambient recordings in very quiet nature environments, I had to either use 24-bit or end up with no useful result.

 

[bigshot]

I haven't been paying attention... have we figured out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin yet?

 

[proton007]

  I haven't been paying attention... have we figured out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin yet?

 
Let me sum up most of what I've seen:
 
-- Everything is opinion (sticks fingers in ears) la la la la la .....
-- Analog good! Digital bad! Hulk Smash!
-- I'm analog, you're analog. Everything's analog. Digital is analog, analog is digital. Why can't we live in peace?
-- I can hear and see things no one can. But you won't understand!  

 
 
-- A lot of technical information.

 

[jaddie]

   
Let me sum up most of what I've seen:
 
-- Everything is opinion (sticks fingers in ears) la la la la la .....
-- Analog good! Digital bad! Hulk Smash!
-- I'm analog, you're analog. Everything's analog. Digital is analog, analog is digital. Why can't we live in peace?
-- I can hear and see things no one can. But you won't understand!  

 
 
-- A lot of technical information.

 
You're killin' me!!!

 

[jaddie]

  I'm sure this has been covered before, but, for example, making ambient recordings in very quiet nature environments, I had to either use 24-bit or end up with no useful result.

 
Nah, you were limited by preamp noise and mic self noise.  People been doing that for decades, even pre-digital. You needed a dead-quiet LDC, and a decent pre, and 16 bits woulda worked.

 

[wnmnkh]

After 4 years, this thread is still relevant to these days with all of these silly replies.
 
But it seems everything got worse and worse with all DSD nonsense has been unleashed for money grab. 

 

[UltMusicSnob]

   
Nah, you were limited by preamp noise and mic self noise.  People been doing that for decades, even pre-digital. You needed a dead-quiet LDC, and a decent pre, and 16 bits woulda worked.

No, the microphone was spectacular: Neumann TLM 103 (yes, I carried a pair off into the woods). And the preamp (Aphex 107) was likewise studio quality. I *really did* need 24 bits. The occasional tractor passing on the road or jet overhead meant the true acoustic dynamic range was huge, and I wasn't going to pack in an entire compressor as well. When I opened up the early-inexperienced 16-bit file in Sound Forge, you could literally see the stair steps on the waveform (only after zooming way in--on normal default scale it looked like a flat line with the occasional blip.

 

[marone]

Empirical evidence lowers the noise floor on opinions.

That is a belief.

The sooner you understand this, the sooner you can realise your method is neither better nor worse than others.

 

[Don Hills]

Quote:

   ... When I opened up the early-inexperienced 16-bit file in Sound Forge, you could literally see the stair steps on the waveform (only after zooming way in--on normal default scale it looked like a flat line with the occasional blip.

What it looked like is irrelevant and misleading. What did it sound like when boosted to the intended listening levels?
 
What were you recording?

 

[UltMusicSnob]

  Quote:
What it looked like is irrelevant and misleading. What did it sound like when boosted to the intended listening levels?
 
What were you recording?

Quantization noise, of course, lots of it. Boosting a tiny signal like that meant that the resulting amplified signal brought the stair steps with it, so to speak. The recording only used a tiny portion of the bottom end of the dynamic range available in 16 bits. Bringing that up to -18db meant that the lack of sufficient resolution on the vertical axis (differences in voltage) was made painfully apparent.
 
These were ambient environment nature recordings, dawn and dusk, far out in the countryside (KY).
 
As another member has suggested to me directly, a very quiet preamp with more available gain would have addressed this challenge before the A/D stage.

 

[Digitalchkn]

  After 4 years, this thread is still relevant to these days with all of these silly replies.
 
But it seems everything got worse and worse with all DSD nonsense has been unleashed for money grab.

 
To add fuel to the fire I will go out on the limb and state that 25bits is better than 24bits. This statement should prolong this thread for another year or so.

 

[bigshot]

That is a belief. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you can realise your method is neither better nor worse than others.

All opinions are not created equal. Some are supported by evidence and some are not.

 

[stv014]

  To add fuel to the fire I will go out on the limb and state that 25bits is better than 24bits.

 
Both are old now, 384/32 seems to be the new highest quality "audiophile" format.

 

[Digitalchkn]

   
Both are old now, 384/32 seems to be the new highest quality "audiophile" format.

 
Oh man! Now I have to upgrade that brand new 25bit headamp/dac combo I just spends thousands on again.
 
Sounds like there's a need to start a new thread.