[jamato8]

The Stax portable is for electrostatics, as we know. A portable for IEM's and less demanding phones has only recently hit the market. IMO, the Stax portable and these new portables for completely different types of drivers, while both for sound reproduction, represents a different platform.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Hopefully there will be cooperation on a standard connector.

 

[Junliang]

All I got to say is..
Thanks RSA and iBasso for stepping in and introducing this "whole new" thing.
Though its not really new, at least it is creating much discussion, allowing it to further develop into something more appropriate, more acceptable by a larger minority.
Interested to see how this will develop

Bringing in "balanced" into the portable arena.

They trigger some thoughts, created a rough path, so lets contribute and smoothen it and extend it

Though their objectives is to more or less gain more consumer demands, and have more $$. << Commercialised company after all, right ?

 

[hockeyb213]

I saw build a balanced dac and amp into one package and let us them portably off a computer instead of anything else because no portable dap maker besides someone like fang at head-direct would even consider doing this.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I saw build a balanced dac and amp into one package and let us them portably off a computer instead of anything else because no portable dap maker besides someone like fang at head-direct would even consider doing this.

you dont need a balanced transport (DAP), even a balanced dac is a bonus. I actually think ibasso would consider the dac part though. I have already suggested this to them with regard to the D11, the WM8740/41 dac is already balanced. the signal is combined down to SE at the last minute by the opamps and I/V section. really wouldnt be such a difficult mod, was considering doing it to my own D11 when its released. so with a bit of nudging this could happen I think. with a bipolar power supply (doesnt have to be dual mono) and the use of opamps like the OPA1632 a balanced dac/amp could be a reality with a bit more R&D. so with a bipolar supply and new I/V its done and dusted. the WM8740/41 actually has internal I/V so only changes needed are in the power supply to the opamps and the opamps themselves

but the connector still must be decided on

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif so what? these advances arent really aimed at the general public are they??

Who qualifies as public and who's not? The real question is, who does these companies (that produce / planning to produce balanced portable amp) aim to sell to? Of course it won't be a problem for RSA if they only planning to sell 300 or 500 units (*or any small number) in total which mostly will probably be sold to head-fi'er. But for a long term development, any company should seriously consider the possibility of expending the customer base, especially if the company is in the position to do so. That's the big issue why balanced portable amp will / have never caught up. Not because the technology isn't good enough, but because of the risk involved. Instead, why not just sell to those you sure will buy from you, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif this isnt meant to be backwards compatible and this point is irrelevant, you need to do more than put a new connector on an amp to make it balanced. this will be something to possibly be integrated into new products, not old ones

I am not talking about backwards compatible, but future compatibility. What if two years down the road, you want to upgrade from RSA to iBasso (or any other companies), then only to find the plug isn't compatible? Sure for you (as a DIY'er) it is easy, but there will be people out there who paid for a balanced IEM and don't know how to solder. Yeah I know: 'Problem? Just pay more money."

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif sure it will probably sound good, but active ground does NOT provide the benefits of balanced. it goes some way towards it, but not that far

At least for my point of view, it is easier to implement as it requires no modification from the headphone's end. More people, including those who do not want to recable their headphone, can benefit from it.

 

[charlie0904]

I wonder how much can "balanced" iem benefit from a balanced portable amp?

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who qualifies as public and who's not? The real question is, who does these companies (that produce / planning to produce balanced portable amp) aim to sell to? Of course it won't be a problem for RSA if they only planning to sell 300 or 500 units (*or any small number) in total which mostly will probably be sold to head-fi'er. But for a long term development, any company should seriously consider the possibility of expending the customer base, especially if the company is in the position to do so. That's the big issue why balanced portable amp will / have never caught up. Not because the technology isn't good enough, but because of the risk involved. Instead, why not just sell to those you sure will buy from you, right?

ok, but I just dont see that its really something that would really appeal so much to the general public. until companies start making portable balanced DAPs, it really only effects those who are using portable dacs and amps to augment their rigs. for the average person who doesnt even really have headphones that will benefit so much or care if it does I dont think its something that would even enter their radar. as was covered in both my posts and duggeh's double the battery power or at least more battery power is needed. so when thought of like that its also a little bit environmentally UNsound

Quote:

I am not talking about backwards compatible, but future compatibility. What if two years down the road, you want to upgrade from RSA to iBasso (or any other companies), then only to find the plug isn't compatible? Sure for you (as a DIY'er) it is easy, but there will be people out there who paid for a balanced IEM and don't know how to solder. Yeah I know: 'Problem? Just pay more money."

ok well on this we are definitely on the same page, I have stressed this point in my posts. it needs to be sorted out and now or we'll end up with a shmozzle. sure some might wonder why I care about that, since its more work for me right?? well i'm a consumer too and I would rather not have my life and hobby more complicated than it already is thankyou very much.

Quote:

At least for my point of view, it is easier to implement as it requires no modification from the headphone's end. More people, including those who do not want to recable their headphone, can benefit from it.

hmm well I just see it as a half a%$ed solution. I feel that balanced portable has quite a benefit not only because of the superior signal produced, but because of the nature of the common mode, those using this portable will be much less effected by the increasing amount of interference we walk through in our cities every day. active ground will help in the amp, but I dont think it will help with this problem. someone correct me if i'm wrong; I havent read up that much on the active ground thing because I already ran my speaker rig balanced before I even came here. so it was a natural extension to run my headphone rig this way too, I would like to extend this to my portable experience. I have been working on my own diy solution (not for sale and nowhere near ready, just concept and parts procurement), to this, thus the research, but it would be great if it were the direction things were headed, because I have heard what good balanced does for my IEMs and its not subtle

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif you dont need a balanced transport (DAP), even a balanced dac is a bonus. I actually think ibasso would consider the dac part though. I have already suggested this to them with regard to the D11, the WM8740/41 dac is already balanced. the signal is combined down to SE at the last minute by the opamps and I/V section. really wouldnt be such a difficult mod, was considering doing it to my own D11 when its released. so with a bit of nudging this could happen I think. with a bipolar power supply (doesnt have to be dual mono) and the use of opamps like the OPA1632 a balanced dac/amp could be a reality with a bit more R&D. so with a bipolar supply and new I/V its done and dusted. the WM8740/41 actually has internal I/V so only changes needed are in the power supply to the opamps and the opamps themselves but the connector still must be decided on

The balanced dap/amp package sounds like a winner for those with mini optical devices like the H140 or older pcdps or even usb.

 

[ClieOS]

You will be surprised how much things can appeal to the general public if you can get it cheap, or just simple enough. Unfortunately most audio business often like to be in the opposite - keep things mysterious enough, and people will pay big bucks for whatever it is.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Multiple connection TRS is the best solution as it allows for the smallest limits on makin the amps thin as possible. 2XTRS 3 is just as stupid as 2x3Pin XLR for home amps and PLEASE LEARN FROM THAT HEADROOM FOUL-UP.

This is kind of an out of band comment. I've had and have heard of more issues with loose TRS mini connectors than with the XLRs I've been using for years. STDs weigh a lot but plugged into gear with some mass they are stable. A four pin XLR would have been more forward looking at the time but the backward compatibility for home gear would have been shot. It seemed like a reasonable tradeoff at the time.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is kind of an out of band comment. I've had and have heard of more issues with loose TRS mini connectors than with the XLRs I've been using for years. STDs weigh a lot but plugged into gear with some mass they are stable. A four pin XLR would have been more forward looking at the time but the backward compatibility for home gear would have been shot. It seemed like a reasonable tradeoff at the time.

yeah i've often wondered what the big deal was there too, since its not like you are carrying them around everywhere like that. you plug them in and it really makes zero difference if there is one or 2.

for portable though I think its important to keep it as simple as possible, so the ones I mention although not too cheap and not yet available through all our usual channels show very good potential for this purpose

 

[itsborken]

That's cool, I've not seen first hand your recommendations If they are a little smaller or more robust it's all for the better. I liked the PCB mounting option vs. having to run wires to the mini xlr jack.

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif You will be surprised how much things can appeal to the general public if you can get it cheap, or just simple enough. Unfortunately most audio business often like to be in the opposite - keep things mysterious enough, and people will pay big bucks for whatever it is.

I couldn't have said it better. But that strategy maximizes their profits in the low-volume market. Now they are employing mass production techniques to reduce costs but in most cases except for Chinese products that savings has not been passed on to the consumer.

But I think it would take an Apple or Bose for this to matter to mass market consumers.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's cool, I've not seen first hand your recommendations If they are a little smaller or more robust it's all for the better. I liked the PCB mounting option vs. having to run wires to the mini xlr jack.

well if youve seen the connectors on aftermarket sennheiser HD800 cables, youve seen the ODU inline version. tone of the ODU ones i'm talking about is simply a 4 conductor version of the HD800 connector

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the custom IEM and the shrinking number of universal IEM with user replaceable cable, the portable balanced amp (PBA) might be a good idea. The is a few problems though: 1) Most universal IEM with no replaceable cable can't benefit from PBA easily, since recabling is a hassle and comparatively more costly. 2) There is no standardized miniature balanced connector , recable/reterminate will mean very limited compatibility, and user will need to keep swapping cable (from balanced to single-end) when (s)he want to go 3.5mm / unamped. 3) Upgrading (for both amp and IEM) will be a hassle as well, due to (1) and (2). I would imagine PBA might get support in Head-Fi from the more dedicated few, but it will have very limited impact on the IEM market as a whole. Instead, I am more interested in Dr. Meier's active balanced ground implementation on a portable amp.

is that something dr meier is working on currently is are there products using this now?