[elwappo99]

dang... With that limit on coax out I'm a no go on this. Any other blu ray players that can do sacd?

 

[kiteki]

Coax and optical are limited to PCM, they can't transfer DSD. http://www.sa-cd.net/faq#playback9
 
Most SACD players will output DSD from the analog RCA jacks (I think) whereas the S370 outputs PCM at 24/192 from the analog RCA jacks, so on this model the only way to experience DSD is to transfer via HDMI to a receiver that can decode DSD (and then use the headphone out on that receiver, or speakers for multi-channel, or connect the analog outs on the receiver to yet another amp).
 

 

[gsilver]

I've seen home theater receivers that do DSD over HDMI, and those generally have headphone amps. But, around here they might send a lynch mob if you try that

 
Beyond that, I'm not sure what your options are.

 

[kiteki]

more info:
"Concerning DSD output, the manual says on page 23:

DSD Output
Mode:

On: Outputs DSD signals from the HDMI OUT jack when playing a Super
Audio CD.
When “On” is selected, analog signals are not output when playing a
Super Audio
CD.

Off: Outputs PCM signals from the HDMI OUT jack when
playing a Super Audio CD."

 

[kiteki]

gsilver -->
 
yes you're right, it doesn't seem like an ideal solution, perhaps I'll just connect the RCA analog -> my amp -> headphones and leave it at that and enjoy 2ch 24/196 10-100kHz instead of DSD, and then later when I upgrade from headphones to speakers I'll invest in a HDMI reciever with DSD decoding and enjoy my SACD all over again in multi-channel SACD surround sound from speakers.  Yes that sounds like a decent solution to me... time to sleep.  I'll report my thoughts on the SACD playback in the S370 in November.  Cheers.

 

[elwappo99]

hrmm wonder if you could use something like this
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882816044&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Cables-_-Nippon+Labs-_-82816044
 
change hdmi to optical, and what the result would be

 

[kiteki]

I stayed at work late last night reading about SACD, only got three hours sleep haha, probably worth it though.
 
Just to make sure I'm on the right track, this is how I intend on listening to SACD on the BDP-S370.
 
SACD disc -> S370 -> white/red stereo RCA out to stereo RCA in (AUX) on my AMP -> Headphones (SA5000)
 
 
My amp is a vintage thing without any chips or processors, it was a high-end $1000+ unit in the 70's, I think it sounds great, my query is can an amp like that render 24bit/196kHz faithfully?  since the BDP-S370 is converting the 1-bit DSD stream to 24/196kHz via the Wolfson DAC's to the analog RCA outs I'm assuming the analog signal will be fine on my amp?  I just want to make sure.
 
The next part I'm a little confused about is if I indeed invest in a receiver with HDMI and DSD decoding so the S370 can pass the 1bit DSD stream straight to the receiver, how will the receiver "decode" the DSD stream and how will it be output?
I.E.
- If I connect 5 speakers to the back of the receiver, what signal are they receiving in the copper wires?
- If I connect the receiver via 2-ch RCA to my vintage amp, what signal will my amp be receiving?
- If I connect my headphones directly to the receiver, what signal will they be receiving?
 
In short if the receiver decodes the 1-bit DSD stream to 24/196 analog out in all cases, then I can't see any point in the receiver apart from multi-channel, which is pointless since I don't own any speakers.  If the receiver outputs the 1-bit/2822kHz via the 2-ch RCA, headphone-jack, or speaker output, then I can see it as improving the fidelity, since the audio signal will be pure along the whole chain from
Laser reading the SACD -> HDMI pure 1-bit output -> receiver pure 1-bit input/output -> Headphones/Speakers -> Me
 
 
 
 

 

[Yikes]

First it's 24/192 not 196. You are confused, your headphones reproduce an analog signal, not 1bit, or 16/44.1, or 24/192. DSD or 24/96 or 24/192 all refer to the digital storage or how the original analog signal is being stored in a digital format. Music is analog, when it is recorded it goes thru a Analog to Digital Converter where a digital representation of the original analog signal is created. DSD, 16/44.1 (CD Quality), 24/96, 24/192, all refer to the format and resolution of the digital signal. The digital data can be manipulated in many ways, but ultimately it is stored and then played back. SACD's use DSD, but can also have a CD (16/44.1) stereo layer. SACD's can have multi-channel as well as Stereo DSD mixes. What you listen to depends on how you set up the player. The player will even down-mix multi-channel to stereo if you tell the player that you want it to do so.



The player gets the digital data off of the disc and then works with the data in the digital realm. Then the data goes through a Digital to Analog Conversion where it is once again made into an analog signal which is suitable for amplification to ultimately drive headphones or speakers.

 

[kiteki]

I see, so if one wishes to listen to the stereo part of an SACD and ignore the multi-channel altogether, then the Analog RCA stereo out on an SACD player is the highest quality stereo sound signal you can get from the disc, and all SACD players have a DSD to Analog conversion at roughly 24/192, is this correct?
Furthermore, optical and coax will - by their limited technical nature - always result in downgraded quality by comparison, so analog stereo out is the only way to go, correct?

 

[kiteki]

And, if the above facts are true, then the BDP-S370 is a fully capable 2-channel SACD player, and 2-channel is all a headphone/earphone user cares for, correct?

 

[kiteki]

I guess the part where I'm confused is, is if SACD is always output in 24bit/192kHz or less, then why record in 1bit/2822kHz in the first place? Is this simply to capture the high frequency range and not use intermodulation filters and such?  I'm also confused why speakers cannot be driven with 1bit/2822kHz.

 

[tuoppi]

You seem to be very confused how digital and analog sounds work.

 

[kiteki]

Yes, because I don't see how +-1 bit on the y-axis and 6093223525 on the x-axis, versus +-24-bit on the y-axis and 192 on the x-axis has anything to do with whether the signal is analog or digital?  Please explain how the dimensions given to time+variation define sound-waves as analog or digital I don't get it!! ARRRGH

 

[Currawong]

"Analogue" (with or without the "ue" on the end) refers to the sound you hear, with your ears. The waves of sound you learned about in school, in science class hopefully.  For audio, it can be stored on cassettes, vinyl records and reel-to-reel tapes, to give some examples.  On those it is stored as groves on the records or differences in the magnetism on the tapes.  
 
"Digital" refers to the storage of an analogue sound as 0's and 1's on a computer, CD, SACD, DVD or any of the other modern music systems.  To convert an analogue waveform to digital, the waveform is sampled a certain number of times per second -- for CD quality (16/44.1) this is 44,100 times, and each sample is given one of 65,535 different volume levels (2^16 = 65535). That's where the numbers come from.
 
The twin RCA outputs on a CD player output an analogue signal, which goes to your amplifier where it is amplified, then to your headphones or speakers.
 
CD players, however, also have, usually, a single RCA socket which outputs a digital signal, that is, the raw data off the CD.  They often have an optical digital output as well.  Nowadays, some have a HDMI digital output, which is more like a computer's digital video output, except it contains the audio signal as well, in digital form.
 
SACDs contain a higher resolution digital signal, that is, more samples per second and far greater different volume levels for each sample.  However, to stop people making digital copies of them, SACD players are limited in that they aren't allowed to output the higher quality data on the SACD as a regular digital signal from the digital output(s).  They are limited to just the analogue outputs (after the digital data has been converted back to a regular sound) for this. 
 
Does this make sense?  It can be very confusing if you don't know how digital anything works in the first place, down to what binary data is. 

 

[Yikes]

I believe one thing that is confusing the issue is that some SACD Players (including the mentioned Sony) do not use a DSD Digital to Analog converter. They instead take the DSD data and convert it to High Resolution LPCM (24/192) and then use the 24/192 DAC's that they have to include for DVD (Actually for DVD they "Have" to have 24/96 D/A's. It's DVD-Audio that requires 24/192 capability) for the Digital to Analog conversion. This saves them the money that the DSD DAC would cost, but some High End Players (Esoteric) also do this because they feel the 24/192 DAC's sound better than the DSD DAC's. IMHO DSD is inferior to 24/192 (but still MUCH better than CD Redbook).