[jeffri]

My Apex M15 arrived...Need to do some critical listening and comparison to the Adel B1. Does anyone like the M20 more than the M15? It was fairly unanimous the B1 was preferred to the S1.

I liked M15 better than M20

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

Looking forward to hearing Apex myself, my A18 should be in this month. I don't foresee any pressure related issues because I just reviewed the Custom Art 8.2's and they have neither ADEL nor Apex and I was fine.

You won't have any pressure related issues at all.  I can listen to my A12's with the M15 all day every day with no fatigue.  I can't say that for other CIEM's I have had without the ADEL or APEX.  Both systems work equally and well.

 

[bavinck]

 
You won't have any pressure related issues at all.  I can listen to my A12's with the M15 all day every day with no fatigue.  I can't say that for other CIEM's I have had without the ADEL or APEX.  Both systems work equally and well.

You need to stop spreading this information without any backup research supporting your claims. Brooko, for one, has already explained this is not true.

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

My Apex M15 arrived...Need to do some critical listening and comparison to the Adel B1. Does anyone like the M20 more than the M15? It was fairly unanimous the B1 was preferred to the S1.

How much better do you like your M15 over the B1?  I have both ADEL and APEX M15 and M20.  I prefer the M15.

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

  You need to stop spreading this information without any backup research supporting your claims. Brooko, for one, has already explained this is not true.

No... It's true
Brooko doesn't have my ears.  What I state is 100% true.  Why do you always refer to Brooko and argue with anyone who states how the best sounding module happens to be the M15 ???   Both Technologies do the same thing.

 

[bavinck]

  No... It's true
Brooko doesn't have my ears.  What I state is 100% true.  Why do you always refer to Brooko and argue with anyone who states how the best sounding module happens to be the M15 ???   Both Technologies do the same thing.
 

I am not taking issue of which module you prefer. I am taking issue with you repeating again and again and again that ADEL and APEX are exactly the same in efficacy. They are not. If you think they are you are ignorant of that way each device works. Physics is pretty clear.
 
I am starting to wonder if you work for 64 Audio....

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

  I am not taking issue of which module you prefer. I am taking issue with you repeating again and again and again that ADEL and APEX are exactly the same in efficacy. They are not. If you think they are you are ignorant of that way each device works. Physics is pretty clear.
 
I am starting to wonder if you work for 64 Audio....

When someone post about the ADEL I don't jump on them to defend the APEX technology like you do when someone post about the APEX.  BOTH DO THE SAME THING.  You are correct about the physics being clear.  I know exactly how both work.  I did a modulated pressure test to simulate low frequency on both the ADEL and APEX modules.   Guess which one displayed less pressure?  In fact the ADEL module will only relive pressure up to a certain point then does nothing.  The APEX relieves pressure no matter how much we swing the modulation.  Try and blow low pressure air through the ADEL and the APEX modules.  The ADEL module will only take a very small amount of air.  The APEX just keeps on going.  You can blow air through it all day long.
You would be wrong about me working for 64 Audio however it is very clear that you are associated with ADEL in some way.

 

[fordski]

 
When someone post about the ADEL I don't jump on them to defend the APEX technology like you do when someone post about the APEX.  BOTH DO THE SAME THING.  You are correct about the physics being clear.  I know exactly how both work.  I did a modulated pressure test to simulate low frequency on both the ADEL and APEX modules.   Guess which one displayed less pressure?  In fact the ADEL module will only relive pressure up to a certain point then does nothing.  The APEX relieves pressure no matter how much we swing the modulation.  Try and blow low pressure air through the ADEL and the APEX modules.  The ADEL module will only take a very small amount of air.  The APEX just keeps on going.  You can blow air through it all day long.
You would be wrong about me working for 64 Audio however it is very clear that you are associated with ADEL in some way.

This subject seems to generate as lot of emotion however to my knowledge the ADEL module is the only one that has some science behind it's efficacy as it relates to reducing hearing damage. (The original premise behind ADEL)
 
To my knowledge there has been no scientific study released re the APEX module and hearing health. So to say they both do the same thing is unsupportable with science at this time. While comfort, pressure relief and the ability to blow air through the modules may be comparable features there is no science to say they do the same thing as it pertains to hearing damage, in my opinion.
 
When it comes to the prevention of hearing damage I feel it's very important that the science is taken into consideration. With respect to other aspects such as sound quality and comfort perhaps it's not as necessary. 

 

[bavinck]

Well said. Right on.

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

 
This subject seems to generate as lot of emotion however to my knowledge the ADEL module is the only one that has some science behind it's efficacy as it relates to reducing hearing damage. (The original premise behind ADEL)
 
To my knowledge there has been no scientific study released re the APEX module and hearing health. So to say they both do the same thing is unsupportable with science at this time. While comfort, pressure relief and the ability to blow air through the modules may be comparable features there is no science to say they do the same thing as it pertains to hearing damage, in my opinion.
 
When it comes to the prevention of hearing damage I feel it's very important that the science is taken into consideration. With respect to other aspects such as sound quality and comfort perhaps it's not as necessary. 

The science behind this is pretty elementary.  As far as the science behind the hearing loss aspect it is also explained.   "When a device is inserted into the ear, the canal is literally sealed and pneumatic pressure stiffens the column of air in the ear canal – just like if your finger were to seal the tip of a syringe.  Now speaker motion moves the column of air which directly moves the eardrum.  This excessive motion of the ear drum causes a self - protecting stapedius reflex that dampens eardrum motion and lowers the volume. The more the volume is turned up to compensate, the more the eardrum tightens."  By relieving this internal pneumatic pressure we can correct this reflex.  "And since the eardrum is free to move properly, less volume is needed to actually listen and the sound is presented with an improved dynamic range, because both the speaker and eardrum are working under optimum conditions - much like in an expensive piece of audiophile equipment".
There is more then one way to relieve this pressure.  It's not magic.  In my testing, I could actually see the pressure change when ether the APEX or ADEL were in the chain.  The APEX would take more pressure (longer stroke) before it would show up on the meter.  I used a modified pump out of a DE-solder station.  Made it adjustable by modifying the crank (Stroke) and added a PWM to control the speed (frequency).  I used a very sensitive pressure / vacuum meter to see the effect.  I can say with confidence that both work the same.

 

[linux4ever]

The m20 sounds better than s1 and b1. But causes fatigue quickly. I never get that with the Adel modules.

Also I don't get fatigue with campfire audio Jupiter iem. And that's been my experience so far. So I can't whole heartedly embrace the apex modules yet.

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

The m20 sounds better than s1 and b1. But causes fatigue quickly. I never get that with the Adel modules.

Also I don't get fatigue with campfire audio Jupiter iem. And that's been my experience so far. So I can't whole heartedly embrace the apex modules yet.

What IEM's are you using?  You should try the M15.  I think you would like the change over the M20.

 

[PinkyPowers]

The M15 is closer to the B1, just a bit crisper and more detailed. Nothing comes close to the bass of the M20. My U12-M20 is too much for me.

 

[AtlanticProSnd]

The M15 is closer to the B1, just a bit crisper and more detailed. Nothing comes close to the bass of the M20. My U12-M20 is too much for me.

Agree.

 

[Ike1985]

The science behind this is pretty elementary.  As far as the science behind the hearing loss aspect it is also explained.   "When a device is inserted into the ear, the canal is literally sealed and pneumatic pressure stiffens the column of air in the ear canal – just like if your finger were to seal the tip of a syringe.  Now speaker motion moves the column of air which directly moves the eardrum.  This excessive motion of the ear drum causes a self - protecting stapedius reflex that dampens eardrum motion and lowers the volume. The more the volume is turned up to compensate, the more the eardrum tightens."  By relieving this internal pneumatic pressure we can correct this reflex.  "And since the eardrum is free to move properly, less volume is needed to actually listen and the sound is presented with an improved dynamic range, because both the speaker and eardrum are working under optimum conditions - much like in an expensive piece of audiophile equipment".
There is more then one way to relieve this pressure.  It's not magic.  In my testing, I could actually see the pressure change when ether the APEX or ADEL were in the chain.  The APEX would take more pressure (longer stroke) before it would show up on the meter.  I used a modified pump out of a DE-solder station.  Made it adjustable by modifying the crank (Stroke) and added a PWM to control the speed (frequency).  I used a very sensitive pressure / vacuum meter to see the effect.  I can say with confidence that both work the same.

I have ADEL and will have Apex A18 Monday, I'll be able to give a pressure impression after a few hours although sound impressions take much longer.