[Canyon Runner]

  From this, can I take it as the Adel does leak ambient noise? 
 

I'm not sure how you mean. Yes the ADEL lets outside noise, so you can have conversations if somebody is sitting across from you when music is not on, much like an open back headphone would. 

 

[cyberkidd]

I'm not sure how you mean. Yes the ADEL lets outside noise, so you can have conversations if somebody is sitting across from you when music is not on, much like an open back headphone would. 

Yeah I meant something like that. I can hear conversations when seated close by other people. Not to the point that I can hear them when I'm playing music though. For the seal, it breaks when I'm looking upwards which is quite a bother, but I'm not sure if I want to refit this for the third time.

 

[Canyon Runner]

Yeah I meant something like that. I can hear conversations when seated close by other people. Not to the point that I can hear them when I'm playing music though. For the seal, it breaks when I'm looking upwards which is quite a bother, but I'm not sure if I want to refit this for the third time.

Ok I feel ya. Sorry, it's sorta a weird thing to describe in the first place so phrasing can be sorta hit or miss. Sounds like your ears are a real tricky thing to master, I don't know if I'd want to refit either at that point. Of course for the money, it should get done, you deserve it. But after how many attempts and retries to perfect what must be a very odd shape/size. That's a real toss up.

My jaw moving breaks the seal (there's a word for it, but it eludes me at this point), but it's due to simply it just moves alot more than most peoples! So I can sorta relate, mine gets better if I look up, oddly enough. We should combine and have perfect seals!!!

 

[cyberkidd]

Ok I feel ya. Sorry, it's sorta a weird thing to describe in the first place so phrasing can be sorta hit or miss. Sounds like your ears are a real tricky thing to master, I don't know if I'd want to refit either at that point. Of course for the money, it should get done, you deserve it. But after how many attempts and retries to perfect what must be a very odd shape/size. That's a real toss up.


My jaw moving breaks the seal (there's a word for it, but it eludes me at this point), but it's due to simply it just moves alot more than most peoples! So I can sorta relate, mine gets better if I look up, oddly enough. We should combine and have perfect seals!!!

At this point, I'd very much like to try the isolated Adel module before considering a refit. If the isolation at least matches my Merlins, I'd probably have no qualms with a breaking seal upon looking up.

And yeah we definitely should combine for the perfect seal

 

[Canyon Runner]

At this point, I'd very much like to try the isolated Adel module before considering a refit. If the isolation at least matches my Merlins, I'd probably have no qualms with a breaking seal upon looking up.

And yeah we definitely should combine for the perfect seal

That'll be a long wait unfortunately. They're only in the prototype stage at this point. So with that said, I'd go for a refit while you're still in the time window to get it done for free.

 

[cyberkidd]

That'll be a long wait unfortunately. They're only in the prototype stage at this point. So with that said, I'd go for a refit while you're still in the time window to get it done for free.

That's true, but since I do have a decent seal and my canals haven't hurt since the first day, I'm really torn between whether to refit or not.

 

[Canyon Runner]

That's true, but since I do have a decent seal and my canals haven't hurt since the first day, I'm really torn between whether to refit or not.

Considering what you paid for them, I'd bite the bullet and try for another fit. You deserve to have them the best way they can be, that's absolutely what the company would want their customer to have as well. Perhaps get another set of impressions done by a different audiologist? If I were in your spot, that's what I would do. 

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[HarryCheng]

@Canyon Runner
Just curious, do you know the specs of the isolation of the manual modules?
 
1964ears website say that the Auto modules have a noise isolation of -18dB
 
Is there a spec of the noise isolation of the manual modules when fully open or closed?

 

[Mython]

 

  Posted a short review of the U10s sometime before, might be helpful

 
 

From a couple of posts I made this summer:

Last Saturday was the Seattle Head-Fi meet and 1964 Ears came up from Portland to join us. I was excited when our meet organizer extraordinaire (BigPappa) told us Vitaliy the President of 1964 Ears would be coming up. Then I arrive at the meet and see Vitaliy had brought along Stephen Ambrose the inventor of the ADEL technology! How cool is that?

During the Kickstarter I went back and forth trying to decide between the A10 & A12, finally settling on the A12 at the last minutes of the campaign. Seeing they brought the A10 I couldn't let the chance to try them pass me by. The A10 was impressive for sure. With less bass than the A12 the female vocals just popped out with immense clarity and accuracy. Vitaliy mentioned most of the A10s are being brought by studio/recording engineers and the like and with the clarity of these I can see why. Was I left wishing I had backed the A10 instead? No, the A12 are just way too much fun!

- and -

The A12 is hugely musical! 1964 was at our meet last month and I compared my A12 to the A10 (both universal). The A10 comes across more mid-forward and was intriguing with female vocals, but to my ears the A12 is a better all around performer.

I'm no basshead and went back and forth between the A10 & A12 until the last few minutes of the Kickstarter. Also, I much prefer my V6-Stage to the V8 due to the V8's bass being a bit overstated with some bleed into the mids. I find none of these issues with the A12.

Thank you both! I read these (I believe I read from page 68 to here). These are great. I guess I'm just wondering why there aren't any "full reviews" as there are a couple of the A/U12. 
I guess it might be too early still, and it needs more time. 
 
Both of you that tried both A/U12 and A/U10 (and anyone else that wants to chime in), would it be accurate that both are mostly tuned the same, with the 10 having less bass (which would make the mids and treble be more pronounced due to that), and the 12 having more bass than reference (thus, making the 10 reference and not mid-centric)? Or do you think they are tuned a bit differently, and the 10s being mid-centric? I know I might be nit-picking here, I'm just trying to get the sound sig. Can't really try them (couldn't find anyone in Canada selling 1964ears stuff anywhere). I guess that when I'll go to The States at some point, I'll have to try and find a place to have a listen

 
 
I'm really bewildered as to why there haven't been any full A10 reviews, all this time since release.
 
That's rather strange.
 
And a bit annoying...
 
If anyone can point me in the direction of a proper A10 review (or, ideally, several!), then please do!

 

[Canyon Runner]

  @Canyon Runner
Just curious, do you know the specs of the isolation of the manual modules?
 
1964ears website say that the Auto modules have a noise isolation of -18dB
 
Is there a spec of the noise isolation of the manual modules when fully open or closed?

Hi Harry, this will probably be a longer response than you had expected to receive. Sorry for it coming late, I was half way through writing it before we had to leave to go set up our booth at CES.

First off, whats important to understand is how isolation tests work, with traditional sealed IEMs and then how ADEL is different, making the ratings very different.

Isolation tests are basically a guy in a soundproof room, with ear plugs/iems in their ears. They raise various noise levels in the room and see at what point the ambient noise is noticeable.
One thing that plays into that is the inclusion effect of sealed ear. If you plug your ears with your fingers, you'll notice that obviously the outside sound drops off substantially, but also that you'll be able to hear your body (your blood flowing, booming inside head voice, your breathing, etc) and it's actually very loud. This effect plays into the isolation effect/rating, almost like a masking of that outside sound PLUS the isolating effects of the stuff in your ears (ear plugs, iems, your finger tips). That inclusion effect also isn't even throughout the frequency range, basically why your foam tip ear plugs work a bit better down low, while letting a bit more sound in around the mid range. 

It's also worth noting that a sealed ear with a plug, restricts the movement of the ear drum by trapping the pressure between the drum and the plug. This ALSO plays into how your ear is going to be trying to decode what it's hearing, be it loud or muffled.

Now for ADEL, we'll talk about the Auto modules first because it's a good standard to use. The addition of ADEL to the situation makes your ears no longer sealed, the pressure now has a place to go and gets absorbed by the ADEL membrane. This also lets the ear drum move as it's supposed to, making it a non-ear-damaging and more natural sounding experience. You can throw the best balanced armatures in the world into an IEM's shell and you're still going to be fighting the way its delivering the sound, so the automatic ADEL is the first step in that battle. That's why it sounds far more natural than anything else, because it's how your ear drum is supposed to function by nature.

The ballpark standard figure you see for isolating measurements on IEMs is roughly -25db, plus a masking of inclusion.
Where as with ADEL, you don't have the in head inclusion to contend with and STILL get an isolation rating of -18db.

So you can see how it's almost like comparing apples to oranges at this point.

But to actually answer your original question, you can close the manual ADELs and achieve a sealed rating of -25db (ish), but opening them up, while the number on paper will be lower (probably like -15db if you want a specific number), you'll actually be achieving a more quiet listening experience to your ear since you don't have to contend with all the sounds in your body playing into it.

 

[HarryCheng]

  Hi Harry, this will probably be a longer response than you had expected to receive. Sorry for it coming late, I was half way through writing it before we had to leave to go set up our booth at CES.

First off, whats important to understand is how isolation tests work, with traditional sealed IEMs and then how ADEL is different, making the ratings very different.

Isolation tests are basically a guy in a soundproof room, with ear plugs/iems in their ears. They raise various noise levels in the room and see at what point the ambient noise is noticeable.
One thing that plays into that is the inclusion effect of sealed ear. If you plug your ears with your fingers, you'll notice that obviously the outside sound drops off substantially, but also that you'll be able to hear your body (your blood flowing, booming inside head voice, your breathing, etc) and it's actually very loud. This effect plays into the isolation effect/rating, almost like a masking of that outside sound PLUS the isolating effects of the stuff in your ears (ear plugs, iems, your finger tips). That inclusion effect also isn't even throughout the frequency range, basically why your foam tip ear plugs work a bit better down low, while letting a bit more sound in around the mid range. 

It's also worth noting that a sealed ear with a plug, restricts the movement of the ear drum by trapping the pressure between the drum and the plug. This ALSO plays into how your ear is going to be trying to decode what it's hearing, be it loud or muffled.

Now for ADEL, we'll talk about the Auto modules first because it's a good standard to use. The addition of ADEL to the situation makes your ears no longer sealed, the pressure now has a place to go and gets absorbed by the ADEL membrane. This also lets the ear drum move as it's supposed to, making it a non-ear-damaging and more natural sounding experience. You can throw the best balanced armatures in the world into an IEM's shell and you're still going to be fighting the way its delivering the sound, so the automatic ADEL is the first step in that battle. That's why it sounds far more natural than anything else, because it's how your ear drum is supposed to function by nature.

The ballpark standard figure you see for isolating measurements on IEMs is roughly -25db, plus a masking of inclusion.
Where as with ADEL, you don't have the in head inclusion to contend with and STILL get an isolation rating of -18db.

So you can see how it's almost like comparing apples to oranges at this point.

But to actually answer your original question, you can close the manual ADELs and achieve a sealed rating of -25db (ish), but opening them up, while the number on paper will be lower (probably like -15db if you want a specific number), you'll actually be achieving a more quiet listening experience to your ear since you don't have to contend with all the sounds in your body playing into it.

Thanks for clarifying )
 
I was quite surprised when I saw your reply.
I was a bit worried if the manual module would let in "too much" ambient noise,
seems like that's not a problem anymore.
 
Good luck to you guys at CES!

 

[dizzid]

Can anyone chime in on JH13 Freq vs the A6 ADEL?  I'm really torn at this point.  I can get the JH13 with their fancy adjustable-bass cable from the Siren series which seems really handy, or the fancy new ADEL tech in the A6.  I'm somewhat leaning toward JH13 since it's a known high-performing benchmark while the ADEL models are still seemingly in a feeling-out phase.
 
I emailed JH Audio and the rep said that all their products are getting a 5% price increase soon, and I could get the adjustable-bass cable for the regular price if I order now.... ugh... decisions.

 

[Canyon Runner]

  Can anyone chime in on JH13 Freq vs the A6 ADEL?  I'm really torn at this point.  I can get the JH13 with their fancy adjustable-bass cable from the Siren series which seems really handy, or the fancy new ADEL tech in the A6.  I'm somewhat leaning toward JH13 since it's a known high-performing benchmark while the ADEL models are still seemingly in a feeling-out phase.
 
I emailed JH Audio and the rep said that all their products are getting a 5% price increase soon, and I could get the adjustable-bass cable for the regular price if I order now.... ugh... decisions.

Ok I can see the confusion, but I've got a few questions for you. Have you heard either of them? The JH13s were the elite monitor 4 years ago but alot has changed since then, I listened to them this morning infact. The mids are clear but that's sorta all that stands out to me with them. It sorta sounds like you're shopping more by your wallet and reading reviews, rather than listening to either and going with what you like. They're very different beasts. The number of drivers on paper mean nothing.

ADEL isn't really in the getting felt out phase, there aren't as many reviews out there simply because the ADEL line just got released 6 months ago, where as the JH13s were kinda the only game in town for a number of years. Plus if you like hearing, which being on this board you indeed do, ADEL will let you keep your hearing, rather than causing hearing loss that IEMs are proven to do. So it's protect your hearing for years to come with proven new technology and simple physics, or stay old school with an older classic model that has served audiophiles well for many years in the past and continue damaging your ear drum. That's really the situation here at its core.

You really just have to listen before you buy, anytime with audio gear, never with your wallet/reading stats/or solely off reviews.

If you'll be at the NAMM Show in 2 weeks, I'd love to give you a demo of the A6 and you can go try out the JH13s at JH's booth and you'll be able to pick for yourself. 

For comparison sake, I just spent some time this evening going back and forth between JH Laylas and my A12s, there's just no comparison between the two. A12s are so much richer, more resolving, more lush & wide sound stage, PLUS not damaging your hearing. Tonight was with my AK120ii, but I did the same comparison today with AK's new copper 380. I used to own Roxannes and within a year the faceplates started to lift from the body (obviously I had them repaired before selling them) and had to PAY to get them repaired. The bass adjustment is sorta nice but you can do the same thing on your eq of your phone or source, it's not enough to justify the cost they want for the gimmick. Yes it'll bleed into the mid range if you up your bass on the EQ, just like the bass adjuster does on the cable. You can be more specific with an eq on some sources tho, to prevent that.

So again, there's alot of little things that get factored into the over product. Seriously, come demo a pair at a show then demo JH and see what you think. Regardless of where you want to spend your money, it's about what sound and product YOU like the best. So it's best to give yourself the chance to hear before you shell out the bucks and just cross your fingers and hope you like the sound signature that somebody on the internet said they liked.

Best of luck with that mental struggle of pros and cons tho, I know that game sucks. We've all been there.

 

[AudioBear]

+1
 
I bought A12s for the ADEL module because I wanted to save what's left of my hearing.  Before that I put millions of miles on IEMs which was dumb. To y great pleasure and surprise I found out the A12s were not only going to protect my hearing they sounded great.  I never heard an IEM sound so good before.  It's a whole different animal.  Try it!

 

[voicemaster]

For people who worry about noise leak, don't worry, my U6 did leak some sound, but at a very high listening volume (11 o'clock with my LC). Even then, it is still barely audible unless you are like a feet away. Interestingly enough, I usually dial the volume knob on my LC at 9 o'clock. but with U6, I turn it down at around 8:30.