[robm321]

  The A12 has abundant bass.  It's tight, deep, controlled and quite astounding.  

 
That's the only red flag for me. I'm not a fan of exaggerated bass, and I've read a couple of comments about them being excessive. 

 

[AudioBear]

Not excessive at all.  In fact when I first received the A12s I thought they were bass deficient.  Then I played some tracks with some bass in it like tracks from Kodo Drums or Congo Drums (Kalbata and Mixmonster from B&W) and I tried some pipe organ stuff--all of which blew me away at how good the bass can be when the track has bass.
 
To my ear they are neither dark nor heavy.  They just deliver the bass that is there without booming or exaggeration.  IMHO there are a lot of comments made about many of the products we talk about on the forums that are off the wall.  I understand we all hear differently and are entitled to having different opinions but some of the stuff I read here just makes me roll my eyes back and wonder if we are talking about the same product.
 
That leads me to comment that the ADEL tuning may in fact be causing different impressions for different listeners.  The fit could be different.  The ear structure, shape and size are surely different.  And there may be differences between each auto-adjusting ADEL module.  This may cause some to think they are bass heavy while others like me would be more likely to say bass light than heavy.  That said the bass is smack on perfect for me and my tastes.

 

[Mython]

   
That leads me to comment that the ADEL tuning may in fact be causing different impressions for different listeners.  The fit could be different.  The ear structure, shape and size are surely different.  And there may be differences between each auto-adjusting ADEL module.  This may cause some to think they are bass heavy while others like me would be more likely to say bass light than heavy.  That said the bass is smack on perfect for me and my tastes.

 
 
Because there are significant differences in the size of people's ear canals, that equates to a difference in effective volume of the air chamber formed within the ear canal, when the CIEM is inserted, and, therefore, a difference in the compliance of that captive volume of air, between one person and another. It is not inconceivable that there may also be tiny differences in the size and compliance of different people's ear drums. Since (as far as I understand it), the ADEL module introduces deliberate additional compliance into the air chamber in the ear canal (whilst the CIEM is inserted), perhaps there are differences in the degree to which the ADEL module interacts with some people's ear canals and eardrums, vs. the degree to which the module interacts with other people's ear canals and eardrums.
 
I hope that hypothesis makes sense - it's difficult to describe what I am trying to convey. If the hypothesis holds water, then the essence of it is that differences in the net total of natural compliance within the formed air chamber of one customer's ears and another customer's ears would be a variable that 1964 Ears cannot possibly be expected to control.
 
Having said that, the ADEL module is obviously designed to compliantly yield whenever it is required to yield, regardless of other variables affecting the air chamber formed by the CIEM within the ear canal. In other words, if, perhaps, one person has a slightly lower net total natural compliance, then their ADEL module might perhaps be required to yield to a greater extent, to compensate. But that would represent a difference in amount of air displacement via the module, not that the module would be actually altering the value of air pressure required for it to operate to a given extent. To put it differently: to move the ADEL module to a certain extent (scenario 1), and to alternatively move it to an even greater degree (scenario 2) should be entirely possible within the range of operation of the module, but scenario 2  would nonetheless probably require more air pressure to occur within the formed ear canal air chamber in order to for the ADEL module to respond (yield) more. So, if that were to be the case, then more air pressure might have some perceptible difference in the subjective SPL of the bass frequencies being heard.
 
Please keep in mind that none of the above is being stated as actual fact. It is merely a personal hypothesis. Furthermore, we are considering tiny, tiny, minute, miniscule variables, and it is difficult to know if/how the ADEL module operates in differing scenarios. The hypothesis also assumes (perhaps erroneously) that the ADEL module treats the air in a captive manner, and does not simply 'vent' air pressure to the outside atmosphere. If it does vent air pressure to the outside atmosphere, then much of what I've hypothesised can be discarded.
 
And, of course, there may simply be tiny, tiny variations in the compliance of each ADEL module rolling off the production line.
 
 
 
In any event, I personally am still very keen to hear the A12, and not particularly concerned by some feeling the bass may be north of neutral, with others feeling that it may be south of neutral.
 
Even putting the above hypothesis, and the ADEL technology aside, having owned the UM Miracle, I know very well that some CIEMs may not sound overtly capable in the lower bass registers but can suddenly sound superb when a recording stimulates such a CIEM to perform in the lower bass registers. Far too many in-ear transducers are tuned with a mid-bass hump to falsely make the bass response sound more impactful or warm, and when a CIEM is designed with little or no mid-bass emphasis, it can, relatively-speaking, be perceived as being 'bass-light' by some people.
 
 
Yet another potential variable in one person's subjective bass experience of the A12, vs another person's, is that I suspect (don't know, just suspect) that the A12 may have an impedance curve which drops rather low. This can be surprisingly challenging for an amp stage to drive, even if the transducer design has a relatively high sensitivity rating, overall.
If the amp-stage output impedance is too high, or if there is insufficient current delivery, some subjective symptoms of these technical shortcomings can be that some low-impedance IEMs/CIEMs can sound unrefined in the treble and/or lacking in bass performance.
 
 
I welcome any reasoned rebuttals to any of this, but just don't shoot me. All I'm trying to point out is that whilst it is not impossible that the A12 might be flawed, I consider it much, much more likely that there are more benign reasons for differences in subjective aural experience of the A12 and I have seen nothing at all yet which concerns me, personally, as a potential future A12 customer.

 
 
.

 

[AudioBear]

Mython: I was trying to imply what you have so well stated in your post.  I think it's likely to be much as you described.  
 
1964Ears has made an excellent and i suspect rather neutral CIEM but actual data is not yet available.  My guess is the same as yours, no mid-bass bump.  I also suspect there is not an treble emphasis either.  To my ears it's pretty much a reference monitor.  This is all interesting since the description on Kickstarter implied it had bass emphasis.  But that was before the auto-adjusting bass module.  Maybe in my ears the auto-adjustment yields a good bass response, and maybe for others it yields big bass some would characterize as exaggerated.
 
I look forward to receiving the tunable ADEL just for the chance to play with it.  That said, I will probably revert to what's in there now unless I am overwhelmed by the tunable setting.

 

[robm321]

Thanks for the responses about the bass. I'm glad to hear that. 

 

[Levanter]

The A12 is by no means a neutral IEM. It is definitely balanced but not neutral.
Btw there shouldn't be much difference in what each of us hear despite the self tunable module and different ear anatomy.
As they have previously mentioned, they designed and created the self tuning module as some artists prefer a plug and play IEM without the hassle of tuning it themselves and ALSO so that the sound engineer will be able to hear what the artists are hearing without any variables

 

[xtroria]

   
That's the only red flag for me. I'm not a fan of exaggerated bass, and I've read a couple of comments about them being excessive. 

 
I listened to the universal version of A12 and the bass is certainly not exaggerated. I feel like V8 has way more bass and sounds darker compared to A12. 
 
But IMO, A12 isn't a "monitor", it's extremely good as a casual listening IEM. It will never give your ears fatigue with laid back but clear sound. A10 for me serves better as a monitor with its more forward highs. If I'm not mistaken, A12 has more mid-bass compared to A10 which makes sub-bass impact in A10 more apparent

 

[moses1258]

So let's see if I've got this right.
 
The A12 is not the king of isolation, but part of that may attributable to the ADEL self-tuning port?  When you get the user adjustable port, you should be able to close it and increase isolation.
 
On other posts, I'm seeing some folks say the customs are a bit loose which may also affect the isolation.  I don't know if I want to take the time to get earmolds if there's going to be some "play" in the fit.  Don't you get CIEMs for a good, snug fit?
 
I'm debating between getting the A12 at a CanJam discount, or, for the same price, I could get both a V-8 and V-6 stage.  Chuck (at Canjam) said they are going to phase out their old line to make room for the A & U's.
 
Can anybody compare the A12 vs the V-8 and V-6 Stage?

 

[Cagin]

So let's see if I've got this right.

The A12 is not the king of isolation, but part of that may attributable to the ADEL self-tuning port?  When you get the user adjustable port, you should be able to close it and increase isolation.

On other posts, I'm seeing some folks say the customs are a bit loose which may also affect the isolation.  I don't know if I want to take the time to get earmolds if there's going to be some "play" in the fit.  Don't you get CIEMs for a good, snug fit?

I'm debating between getting the A12 at a CanJam discount, or, for the same price, I could get both a V-8 and V-6 stage.  Chuck (at Canjam) said they are going to phase out their old line to make room for the A & U's.

Can anybody compare the A12 vs the V-8 and V-6 Stage?

what was the SoCal Canjam discount?

 

[moses1258]

what was the SoCal Canjam discount?

20%. Would make the A12s around 1,600.

 

[Cagin]

20%. Would make the A12s around 1,600.

ah I see so it's like they still accepted 'sleepy bird' pricing.

 

[Levanter]

  So let's see if I've got this right.
 
The A12 is not the king of isolation, but part of that may attributable to the ADEL self-tuning port?  When you get the user adjustable port, you should be able to close it and increase isolation.
 
On other posts, I'm seeing some folks say the customs are a bit loose which may also affect the isolation.  I don't know if I want to take the time to get earmolds if there's going to be some "play" in the fit.  Don't you get CIEMs for a good, snug fit?
 
I'm debating between getting the A12 at a CanJam discount, or, for the same price, I could get both a V-8 and V-6 stage.  Chuck (at Canjam) said they are going to phase out their old line to make room for the A & U's.
 
Can anybody compare the A12 vs the V-8 and V-6 Stage?

 
I would say the fit of the A12 for me is perfect. It's not tight but it is also not loose, hence very comfortable. Sure it'll move a bit if you play/press around it while it's in your ear, but it's snug and there is no change in sound while doing so. If the seal is not good, you will notice an increase in bass if you press it against your ear or a loss of bass or other changes across the frequencies if you wriggle it around your ear.
 
Honestly i have more faith in their fitting compared to others after getting the A12 with them using their own 3D scanning/printing tech. It's much more accurate compared to manual style. JH is horrible with fittings. Sent mine 3 times and it still isn't perfect.
 
If budget is not of a concern to you, i'd recommend the A12. 
The A12 is not as bassy and warm as the V8. It's much more balanced across the whole spectrum. Against the V6S, the A12 is closer in sound signature but to me it's slightly less bassy and more balanced as well. 
A12 PRaT is slightly faster than the V6S which makes it a better all rounder. 
Clarity, imaging, separation, soundstage, layering -> noticeable improvement over both V6S and V8.
 
If you do decide to save cost and go for the V6S/V8, i'd recommend you to wait until they release the Adel version of the A6/A8 instead.
 

20%. Would make the A12s around 1,600.

 
Wow not a bad price all things considered.

 

[moses1258]

Thanks Levanter.  You've been most helpful.
 
One more question, what are you using as a source?  I have both the Hugo and the AK 120II.  Both are super-detailed, but just a bit sterile.  I feel like I need a "warm" IEM to make both the Hugo and the AK sound more musical.  Does the A12 have a warm sound?  Is there another A series that's warmer?  I listened to the A6 at CanJam and liked its signature.  However, had to give up some detail.
 
Too many choices and not enough $$$$

 

[Levanter]

  Thanks Levanter.  You've been most helpful.
 
One more question, what are you using as a source?  I have both the Hugo and the AK 120II.  Both are super-detailed, but just a bit sterile.  I feel like I need a "warm" IEM to make both the Hugo and the AK sound more musical.  Does the A12 have a warm sound?  Is there another A series that's warmer?  I listened to the A6 at CanJam and liked its signature.  However, had to give up some detail.
 
Too many choices and not enough $$$$

 
Yes, it's warm and smooth. I'm using ZX2 as my source.
At the moment there is only A12 and A10, so yes A12 is the warmest in the lineup. However if they start releasing their other A variants, the A8 might be the bassiest/warmest of them all if it's similar to their V8.
I haven't heard the A6, but i read someone mentioned it sounded like the younger sibling of the A12. If so then the A6 would be a great compromise if you want the A12 but would like to save some cash

 

[AudioBear]

MIne fit quite well.  They are in the Goldilocks zone--not too loose, not too tight.  I can't just pull them directly out because that creates a vacuum which I assume means it's a good fit.  Like Levanter, I find them comfortable.  Obviously with a product that is made one by one from ear impressions there has to be some variability in individual fit. 1964Ears made me get a second set of impressions because they were not satisfied with the first set.  That offended my audiologist who had been doing them for years.  The lab tech at 1964Ears was very nice about but they wanted to get it right the first time and they did.  Based on a sample size of one, I conclude they know what they are doing.
 
When my wife tries to talk to me I don't hear her.  Does that mean the isolation is good enough? 

   And like I said the other day, I can barely hear her banjo.  Is the ADEL the king of isolation?  Too many variables to answer that and it can only be answered in a direct comparison which I can't do.  All I can say is the isolation is plenty good enough for me.  Would a custom fit earplug be better?  Probably but it won't sound as good.
 
Here's the tough part (and this applies to a lot of what has been said about what these are or are not like in several aspects), nobody can hear what you hear, and you can't hear what they hear.  Not only do we all have slightly different hearing, we have different standards for the words we use to describe our impressions.  That's why we rely on multiple reviews and we expect some disagreement in people's impressions.
 
The problem with all CIEMs is you can't get a 100% perfect read on what they will sound like in your ear without buying them. Yes, you can listen to the UIEM version but it's not going to be the same.