[johnjen]

@johnjen
 So, the HD800 S should be available as of mid-December according to Senn themselves. Might order them blindly - those who have heard them swear by them. 

Besides that thanks for all the valuable knowledge and great vibes guys. It was great to meet all of you and I'm sure it won't be the last time. The Dark Star shall return... h34r:

The 800's are kinda like that.
Some swear by, and others at, them.
And Senn did say the 800S's were slightly better.

I figure we will find out in due course as they get examined, measured, tested, taken apart, and opinions expressed.


I figure your dark star will settle in as you put more hours on it.
It did sound rather nice but then meet conditions, even one like our last meet (relatively quiet) it can be hard to tell determine the full signature of any device.

So give it some more use and see if you can hear any changes as it settles in.

JJ

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

The Senn Anax Hd800 with the taboo amp and Multibit dac on Muziqs station was quite impressive and enjoyable for classical music. I think this is the only setup over the he560 I consider a massive step up in the genre (for me). Very engaging while being technical, the Hilary Hahn: Bach Partitas was magical.

 

[Barra]

So my Fostex TH-X00 is sold and shipped and sellers remorse is setting in. However, thinking about the upcoming Eddie Current Black Widow makes me feel a little better. Now all I have to do is get my X5, GO720, Beresford Caiman AMP/DAC, and Mjolnir sold, and I should have one on its way. Will set up the classified ads tonight.

 

[gefski]

Not an impression, but since we just had a meet, this will be a good group to ask for some feedback/opinions.

My wife, after acquiring a new(er) iMac, left her hand-me-down iMac OS X V 10.11.1, 250g hd, 4g memory on my desk. So I've got some time, cans of DaleS Pale and bottles of Stone Saison, and want to do some fiddling and consideration of moving from Windows to Mac.

The only reason I'm considering this change is I'm sick of Windows Driver issues -- every time I want to try a different dac or usb implementation I'm in a mess of uninstall and install drivers. So if I can get equal or better sq to my Windows Jplay setup, and better functionality --great!

I've been trying to learn how the Mac works, and am going to be trying some players -- Audirvana, Bit Perfect, Decibel, Pure Music, etc.

I may try Audirvana + first. It seems to focus on what's important to me -- full memory play, reduction in computer background tasks, emphasis on native sampling. What's not important to me? EQ & other signal processing, beautiful album art.

So anyone using a Mac, tell me what player(s) you like & why.

This may be off-topic for this thread, but I wanted to touch base with our group. Thought about JJ's DIY thread, but this isn't a tech question, it's a marketing question--who's selling what I want?

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

I've been trying to learn how the Mac works, and am going to be trying some players -- Audirvana, Bit Perfect, Decibel, Pure Music, etc.

So anyone using a Mac, tell me what player(s) you like & why.

This may be off-topic for this thread, but I wanted to touch base with our group. Thought about JJ's DIY thread, but this isn't a tech question, it's a marketing question--who's selling what I want?

Don't join the cult Glen!!

 

[miceblue]

I use a MacBook for basically everything. XD

Audrivana+ is okay, but I just got JRiver Media Center 21 and I find it to be a lot easier to use overall. The old version of A+ was way better than the current one.


http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Playback_Options#Settings

Play files from memory instead of disk (not zone-specific)

This option loads an entire file into memory so that the disk is not accessed during playback. The memory buffer is capped at one gigabyte, and rolls as needed for extremely large files.

A+ can use nearly all of your RAM if needed (7 out of 8 GB RAM for me), but I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes in terms of audio quality.


I don't think JRMC has a system optimisation thing like A+ or JPlay does. I could be wrong though, I'm still getting used to the menu system.
Speaking of which, is there a way to not have JRMC read my videos and photos? I thought this thing is a music player, not a VLC replacement. Found it.

 

[Torq]

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Playback_Options#Settings
A+ can use nearly all of your RAM if needed (7 out of 8 GB RAM for me), but I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes in terms of audio quality.
 

 
I'll post my thoughts/experiences on OS X playback software properly in a bit, as its something I've been experimenting with a lot lately, but I wanted to comment on this item first.
 
The principal benefit to caching audio data in RAM and playing from there is to avoid I/O contention that would result in drop-outs that might occur when other applications are accessing the disk, and it has almost nothing to do with sound quality.  ALL software players move the data through RAM anyway, and necessarily use a buffer to do this; as long as the buffer never empties there should be no measurable or audible difference regardless of buffer size.
 
For practical purposes, setting the buffer/cache to any size larger than necessary to avoid drop-outs is just wasting system RAM with no gain.  If you have a machine with an SSD this is almost NEVER going to be more than one song's worth of memory (256MB is about a third of an entire lossless encoded 74 minute CD).
 
There are technical arguments for avoiding other I/O during music playback, which a larger buffer theoretically would help with, but unless your system is doing absolutely nothing but audio playback then those arguments are moot as the issues are going to crop up anyway.

 

[johnjen]

I'm on a Mac Pro with 16BG ram several SSD's etc etc.
I run JRiver MC and have since it first appeared for mac.
It is 'better' than any other 'player' I've tried in terms of SQ, at least on my system.

It is still a bit kluggie in some respects but once it's up and running and setup the way you like it, it's fairly nifty.
Basically it’s a tweako player with a decent database search and display engine attached.

When your collection gets big the ability to search and find what you are looking for becomes an issue.
This is where the database looms large as a useful tool.
But it does take a bit of fussing to get all of the criteria and useful 'panes' dialed in.
And yeah it does crash from time to time but recovers well.

As for the Mac,
4GB ram is a minimum but I'd limit its use to just playing music to avoid 'issues' none the less.
If you are going to do more then consider getting more ram.
And another HD (at least 1TB) is a must, go external, it'll be easier and won't matter much in terms of 'quickness'.
Or it shouldn't anyway if you get a Firewire 800 drive.

And it would probably be better to hose everything on the startup drive and reload it fresh and go from there.
I've been using Macs since they first showed up in the 80's and they respond (like most computers do) to a 'fresh start' rather than trying to patch up the pre-existing system etc.
OR you can go in with a bevy of s/w tools and clean up the remnants of the previous system and apps and… etc.
It just takes a bunch more time and access to a bevy of utilities.

As for learning the Mac OS it is different than windows and way different than a command line OS.
But usually once you get the hang of it, it's fairly easy to learn and use with an intuitive feedback that once you become accustom to it makes it easier, and more frustrating when you go to a windows or command line OS. Be warned…

But performing a clean re-install without being familiar with the how and in which way etc. (like any computer) is probably a sure fire way to experience frustration coupled with a keen desire to want to take an axe to it… :atsmile:

So if you need some hands on help, between us Mac heads we can get you steered in the 'best' direction.
I used to repair and 'fix' macs and PC's h/w & s/w (still do for the neighbors) so I'm kinda familiar…


Oh and whatever player you decide upon, make sure it has DSP functionality built in.
This will become very useful if you want to further dial in the entire system, later on.


JJ

 

[flatmap]

Audirvana is a very good place to start and it's one of my favorites in terms of sound quality and ease of use.  And if your dac supports integer mode, A+ offers 2 different integer options -- and you should try both.  Of course,for the third option, also try operating it while not in integer mode.  Audirvana has an "integration" with respect to iTunes, but it is optional and so I do not bother with it.
 
I doubt that 4 Gig of RAM is enough, but at some point you should try HQPlayer.  Amazing piece of work, that one.
 
I seem to be most critical when it it comes to classical music.  In this regard, my favorite is Pure Music as it seems to provide the most refinement in presenting the combination of musical lines and gives the most apparent depth in complex orchestral works,  IMO. The biggest inconvenience for me is that it is integrated with iTunes and so I end up converting flac to alac or aiff -- which is a chore.  PM allows you to trick iTunes by creating and importing files which are pointers to flac files -- but I have enough trouble managing my library without dealing with something like this.  Notwithstanding, it is my favorite in terms of SQ for classical works. PM also offers the option to route all system sound through its audio engine  -- so you can listen to streams and video with (most of) the benefits of its sound rendering.
 
In terms of sound presentation JRiver may be my least favorite because it does poorly with presenting "spaciousness" of complex works.  IMO!!  I mean the SQ is at least as good as what you're getting from iTunes but, I must say, it has an amazingly rich and flexible feature set.  Probably the best in that regard.  And of course it takes care of shifting the computer's sample rate (as do all of these 3rd party players) based on the file being played.
 
This last point is one reason you'll not end up using iTunes if you have files of varying sample rates.  Apple does not inspect the music file to see what sample rate is encoded -- it just does forced conversion to match a previously set, static setting.

 

[gefski]

Great info, thanks so much!

Just fiddling with the Mac for familiarization, it's interesting that with just itunes, an ALAC file is clean, clear, highs & lows fine, but the music is dead, lifeless, cardboardy. I mean in a big way! Dramatic when I go back to Windows/Jplay. Clearly showing that you must have a good player---Yggy can't make a silk purse...:rolleyes:

 

[curbfeeler]

 
In terms of sound presentation JRiver may be my least favorite because it does poorly with presenting "spaciousness" of complex works.  IMO!! 

Rubbish. Try JRiver and decide for yourself.

 

[atomicbob]

  Rubbish. Try JRiver and decide for yourself.

I agree with @curbfeeler . If one is experiencing compromised sound quality from JRiver, then JRiver is mis-configured. Bit perfect transport can be obtained with output format disabled (no on-the-fly Sample Rate Conversion) and using the appropriate driver model for the mfg supplied driver.

 

[gefski]

Taking Bob's comment further, I find that ALL players must be tweaked and dialed in for transparent and musical presentation with computer based files.

I was very happy with SQ of my PC with Jplay Mini and appropriate PC functions shut down. However I got sick, sicker, and sickest of driver issues -- uninstalling and installing drivers every time I wanted to try anything different usb-wise.

So when my wife got a new(er) iMac and gave me her "hand-me-down" iMac, I gave it a try. Now, a couple weeks later, I've got Audirvana+ dialed in, Mac & Apple functions adjusted for music playback, and I'm smiling. Transparency in spades, Yggy wringing gobs of information out of 16/44 rips, bigger differences between flawed recordings and gorgeous ones. (And no drivers needed!)

These players aren't plug n'play. IMO YMMV

 

[johnjen]

My $0.02....

The complexity of s/w based playback systems can be daunting, especially for those just venturing into this for the first time. And when the settings are not easily understood as to what they really are, and what they really do, well it can be frustrating.
And often times the instructions can be cryptic, or in some cases are out of date or just plain incomplete.
Media Center's instructions are one example of this and it can be quite frustrating until a degree of familiarity is reached.
And getting over the learning curve of the terms and functions that the s/w players use also takes a bit of doing, and Media Center with its added complexity (everything and the kitchen sink) can take a while to figure it all out.

That said there is, or can be help from various web sites etc to help get over the hump so to speak.

But after trying out various players and fussing with the knobs and such, I have found that the customizability of Media Center sets it apart from the others.
And the SQ of its audio engine is a cut above the others I had tried, and with its built in DSP capabilities, which IMO has become mandatory in terms of achieving the SQ that truly is astounding, well I see no need to look any further.

But once the basic setup is dialed in then the fun begins as different settings can be played with to see what works best and how the s/w can be used to accommodate your own particular needs and system.

For instance we have been using several tweaks, all in DSP that make a HUGE difference to the overall SQ.
These tweaks would not be possible without DSP and it would be near impossible to give them up at this point, they have become so compelling.

Just some further thoughts to ponder.


JJ

 

[flatmap]

  Rubbish. Try JRiver and decide for yourself.

 Just sharing that it is my least favorite among many good choices. YMMV.