[Skarecrow]

eh, you're thinking about khz the wrong way.

Have you ever resized a jpeg picture? If you resize it to make it say, 10% bigger (similar to jumping from 44.1khz to 48khz), there are a lot of fuzzy pixels and general blurryness. If you resize it with an algorithm that is more concerned with speed than with accuracy, you will even get artifacting. That is what the sound blaster line (the ENTIRE line) is doing to your 44.1khz audio.

As for them using the same processor, the Ford GT uses a dohc supercharged version of the same 5.4L engine they use in an F150 truck (albiet sohc naturally aspirated). Same engine (basically), but tweaked for totally different uses. Same thing with the EMU10k2 chip, which is apparently a tremendiously versitile chip.

The Sound blaster line is tricked out for gaming. It's set up to produce 3d enviornmental effects, and to relieve the computer's cpu of as much sound processing duty as possible. The accompanying audio hardware is set up after that purpose.

The EMU professional line is set up for audio accuracy and quality reproduction. It's set up for "high end" audio work. It just so happens that a lot of the goals of high end audio work happen to conincide with quality music reproduction.

That's what commando ment. Just like you wouldn't buy the F150 to race around nurburgring, and you wouldn't buy the GT to tow a boat (Even though either one is probably basically capible of doing so), so too you wouldn't buy the EMU line if gaming is your concern, and you wouldn't buy the Sound Blaster line if music is your concern.

Also, you're thinking about mp3 and audio compression the wrong way as well. Most mp3s actually are 44.1khz. That's not what they're getting rid of to reduce file size.

 

[Skarecrow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando Balls. What does it matter what parts the two sounds cards have, even if they're in the same machine. Whether it's a good idea or not is a judgement call, whether it will work shouldn't be being questioned.

No, he's right. From what I remember, the audigy line and the EMU line share a data link library with the same name, but the files are not identical. I'm pretty sure that has caused a lot of people problems.

 

[gaboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando Balls. What does it matter what parts the two sounds cards have, even if they're in the same machine. Whether it's a good idea or not is a judgement call, whether it will work shouldn't be being questioned.

Driver conflict for the 10K2 chip. Big warning in 1212m install guide. Solvable in practice, but big pain in the @ss.

 

[gaboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarecrow As for them using the same processor, the Ford GT uses a dohc supercharged version of the same 5.4L engine they use in an F150 truck (albiet sohc naturally aspirated). Same engine (basically), but tweaked for totally different uses. Same thing with the EMU10k2 chip, which is apparently a tremendiously versitile chip. The Sound blaster line is tricked out for gaming. It's set up to produce 3d enviornmental effects, and to relieve the computer's cpu of as much sound processing duty as possible. The accompanying audio hardware is set up after that purpose. The EMU professional line is set up for audio accuracy and quality reproduction. It's set up for "high end" audio work. It just so happens that a lot of the goals of high end audio work happen to conincide with quality music reproduction. That's what commando ment. Just like you wouldn't buy the F150 to race around nurburgring, and you wouldn't buy the GT to tow a boat (Even though either one is probably basically capible of doing so), so too you wouldn't buy the EMU line if gaming is your concern, and you wouldn't buy the Sound Blaster line if music is your concern.

Also, the 10K2 chip only has one clock giving 48Khz on the Audigy2.
On the 0404 and 1212m/1820/1820m (it's the same pci card called 1010 on these three), you get two clocks (44.1 & 48), so there's no resampling going on.

Btw, the DSP on E-MU cards cannot be used above 48Khz, which sux imo, because it is quite useful (ain't that a contradiction): you get up to 16(?) 2 band parametric equalizers. And they distort much less than what foobar provides.

The same DSP is programmed differently on Audigy 2: EAX yada, yada.

 

[DrewWinters]

I am using - now don't laugh at me - my Total Bithead for gaming. I haven't noticed much change in framerate between it and my onboard Envy24. Surely the EMU cards can't be slower than such a simple USB card, can they?

I say that to ask, how bad can the EMU stuff be for gaming anyway? If games can recognize a bithead without trouble, surely they'd be able to run an EMU card! Right?

 

[Aman]

I have used both an Audigy and the EMU 0404 for a good period of time.

For windows, the drivers for creative are broken. They really aren't good.. AT ALL. In fact, so is the hardware. Creative products in general are just not quality, no matter what anyone else tells you. Especially those Audigy cards.

The EMU 0404 is a STEP UP, but it's not signifigant enough, in my opinion, to justify the purchase.

If you want to get a huge increase, I'd go with an M-Audio card (such as the Audiophile 24/96), becuase these give much better sound quality for the money and also come with MUCH better support for drivers in Windows, Linux, AND macintosh. In fact, as a linux user, I was REALLY impressed with the linux drivers. They sound better than the windows ones, by far.

So either you stick with the Audigy or you go with a different brand. M-Audio is a much better brand of professional pci card interfaces.

 

[commando]

The lower end m-audio products aren't worth bothering with, unless you want a portable solution. I've had the sonica theatre and i've got a modded sonica, the first was horrible, the latter wasn't great. Never tried the high end ones.

 

[artit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewWinters I am using - now don't laugh at me - my Total Bithead for gaming. I haven't noticed much change in framerate between it and my onboard Envy24. Surely the EMU cards can't be slower than such a simple USB card, can they? I say that to ask, how bad can the EMU stuff be for gaming anyway? If games can recognize a bithead without trouble, surely they'd be able to run an EMU card! Right?

I have both the EMU 1212m and the Audigy 2Zs. I use both because the EMU doesn't support more than 2-channel gaming. Therefore, I use the Audigy if I want to use features such as EAX and 5.1-channel gaming.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman The EMU 0404 is a STEP UP, but it's not signifigant enough, in my opinion, to justify the purchase. If you want to get a huge increase, I'd go with an M-Audio card (such as the Audiophile 24/96), becuase these give much better sound quality for the money and also come with MUCH better support for drivers in Windows, Linux, AND macintosh. In fact, as a linux user, I was REALLY impressed with the linux drivers. They sound better than the windows ones, by far. So either you stick with the Audigy or you go with a different brand. M-Audio is a much better brand of professional pci card interfaces.

emu 0404 sounds better than Audiophile 24/96 (or any other card from that generation using similar parts). emu's hardware and measured specs are better.

I don't see how Linux sounds better than Windows or Mac. If they are all bit perfect and pass the same data, they will sound the same with the same soundcard.

You seem very anti Creative Labs and pro M-Audio. The emu line has little to do with the regular Creative Labs cards so don't bother comparing the two. You say M-Audio is a much better professional PCI card brand. They are a budget brand. RME, Lynx, or emu provide higher quality implementations and have some innovation.

 

[Whit]

Quote:

For windows, the drivers for creative are broken. They really aren't good.. AT ALL. In fact, so is the hardware. Creative products in general are just not quality, no matter what anyone else tells you. Especially those Audigy cards.

I don't know about the 0404 but on the EMU1212M box it clearly states that the card was engineered in the USA. This tells me right off that this card was not touched by Creative but is the product solely of EMU. The only hint of Creative is on the box and is a very small logo. In comparison to Creative's "official" products, the logo is extremely small. Say what you will about the drivers, but the hardware of M-Audio and EMU are not comparable. You only need to look at the RMAA measurements to verify that the EMU's hardware design is superior to that of M-Audio. I own both an Audiophile 24/96 and a Revolution. I gave up on both because of spotty driver issues. When I was using my M-Audio cards the support was horrible. It would take them months upon months to fix even small issues. The speed at which EMU updates their drivers and listens to their customers' requests tells me that the drivers are written by EMU and not the tortoise known as Creative. While this company may be owned by Creative, there are many positive and welcomed differences that set the two apart.


Whit

 

[commando]

Did creative buy a company called "Emu" a while back, by any chance?

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando Did creative buy a company called "Emu" a while back, by any chance?

On the subsidiary page: http://us.creative.com/corporate/subsid/

E-MU Systems
Acquired in March 1993
E-mu Systems, Inc. is a leading developer of innovative digital audio products based on digital sampling technology for the musical instrument and computer controlled sound markets. E-mu provides audio solutions for the multimedia market based on the proprietary digital signal processing (DSP) technology and design expertise that has fueled its growth in the musical instrument business.

 

[maarek99]

Aman: You happen to work for M-Audio or something? Otherwise that rambling doesn't make much sense.

 

[Scrith]

I started here at head-fi with a Creative Audigy 2 ZS. My first upgrade was to an E-Mu 1212M, then a Benchmark DAC1, then a Singlepower MPX3, and some expensive cables (Zu Mobius, Zu Varial, PS Audio Statement for power, etc.) along the way.

All of those upgrades were great, and some of the later ones were quite expensive, but nothing compares to the great improvement I got from upgrading my Audigy 2 ZS to an E-Mu 1212M. Within seconds of listening to a song I knew well, I understood what everyone had been talking about. The E-Mu sound cards (and I believer the 0404 is similar is audio quality to the 1212M, just with a few less connection options) are a HUGE upgrade, when used for music, over any Soundblaster card I've ever owned.

I also use my 1212M for games (Doom 3, Far Cry, UT2004, etc.) and am quite happy with it. I've had my 1212M for about 6 months now, and I can say with great confidence that I will probably NEVER be using a Soundblaster product again for music playback from my computer.

 

[Aman]

No, I do not work for M-Audio. I live in the United States, and last time I remember the M-Audio corps are located in England.

You guys can play with NUMBERS all you like, but what it really comes down to is sound quality. Sure, the EMU 0404M has the richness of sound that most pro cards have, but what about neutrality and the highs?

I did an A/B when I was going between the 0404 and the 24/96 - with the same headphones, same amp, same test computer. The 0404 and the 24/96 shared the same identical full sound, but the 0404 had a very unballanced sound, greatly favoring powerful midrange and more agressive music.

The 24/96 had a very neutral, very detailed presentation, and the highs were not the least bit rolled off. The only thing that it misses is the musicality, but an amp fixes this problem immediately.

I guess it's opinion as far as sound quality goes, but you guys SHOULD know that Creative doesn't make much good!

Their hardware AND software is pretty much broken. They don't put quality into their products at all, which is why almost all recording studios despise the Creative "high-end" products. I myself do studio work and I really needed the quality that the M-Audio cards give. As far as audio reproduction goes, it is as technical, detailed, and balanced as you are going to get in the price range.

And the reason that the card sounds better in Linux is because the drivers aren't being made by Creative. Believe it or not, the sound quality greatly depends on the quality of the drivers, and since the day Creative became more focused on gaming products and hardware, the drivers went down hill very quickly.

Again, if you WANT broken hardware and broken drivers, and use windows - by all means get a creative card. The sound quality, I GUESS, is up to you guys. If you want QUALITY, and RELIABILITY, and REALLY good drivers for both Windows and for ALSA from the skilled Linux community, get an M-Audio PCI interface.