[rincewind]

This is not a dump on the 0404, just a few critical questions. I understand from reviews and this forum, that the 0404 sounds awesome.

I have a NAD C320BEE / Paradigm Monitor 3's / Senn HD590 (maybe going to HD650's later) and need to replace a SB Live 5.1 DE which is randomly introducing 'pops' in my music (I've checked.. it's not the encoding).
In case you're wondering, the only critical listening to do on my PC is with CDs or 320kbps CBR mp3's.

Right now, there's a few things holding me back from buying it the 0404.

As far as I can see, the factors that determine the sound quality (for playback) are:
- SNR ( 100+ seems standard )
- Max stereo sampling output level ( 192kHz seems like a good level )
- The quality of the DAC ( err... ? )
- What else?

So after reading about the 0404 and how wonderful it is, I compared it to something more mainstream like the Audigy 2 ZS, which I can buy for the same money or less, and a lot easier (here in Australia).

Output Sampling rate: E-Mu 0404 = Audigy 2 ZS = 192kHz max in stereo (I'll only be using it in stereo). So on the same level here, unless someone wants to say E-Mu's 192 is, for some reason, better than the Audigy's 192...

SNR: Audigy = 108dB (output I assume, input unrated (?) ), E-Mu 0404 = 111dB (A/D) and 116dB (D/A). What practical difference will this have?

Quality of the DACs - I can't compare them, because I don't know how.

Any other factors I should know about? Because so far, they're on a pretty even playing ground, and I would assume the Audigy would have much better support.

I've read that using Foobar and 0404 and either ASIO or kernel streaming can cause problems when any other application tries to use the soundcard.. can anyone give more info on this?

I've also read that the 0404 can be frustrating to configure - I'd like to have great sound, but I'm Murphy's law on legs.

There is also the factor of the connecters. As far as I know, the 0404 has two sets of mono outputs, requiring dual 1/4" to RCA IC's to go to my amp. This adds to the cost of the 0404, for me.

The 0404 also has no mic-in or headphone-out.. what do you do if you want to use a cheapo mic/headphone combo for playing games? I play games ocassionally. I've also heard that the 0404 won't work with online chat programs (like Yahoo) at all. Is that true??

OK by now you probably think I work for Creative lol, but I don't. Hell, if you guys can explain how the different specs will make the difference, and alay my fears of configuring the 0404, I'll buy it as soon as possible. It's just that right now, I'm unsure.

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[commando]

If you want sound quality get the 404. If you want to play games get the audigy.

btw emu cards are made by creative, it's their professional line.

 

[rincewind]

See, now that was the kind of response I really wasn't after. You haven't given any reasoning, other than implying that the 0404 sounds better.

I'm really after someone to answer my (what I thought were pretty succinct) questions.

 

[commando]

I do my best

When it comes down to it you can play with all the numbers you like, whereas you'd be better off taking the advice of someone who's listened to both (which isn't me). I think what I said is what you'll end up deciding by yourself - get the creative card for games, and the emu for music. If you can't afford both get a lower end creative card for games and an AV-710 for music. I can't hear any difference between by 1212 and my AV710, but I haven't compared them head to head.

 

[rincewind]

Hey, you said something that caught my attention. The idea of having two souncards never occurred to me! Good idea..

How hard is it to set up a pc for two soundcards? Could I get away with leaving my cruddy SB Live in there for games/whatever and explicitly point foobar and maybe Power DVD to use the 0404 for mp3/CD/DVDs?

 

[Talonz]

It's pretty easy. It can be done in most audio applications by selecting the output.

The main reason the Audigy line is looked down upon is because of the internal resampling. Even if you want to run 44.1khz, it will resample it to 48khz and back.

 

[pockerface90]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rincewind Hey, you said something that caught my attention. The idea of having two souncards never occurred to me! Good idea.. How hard is it to set up a pc for two soundcards? Could I get away with leaving my cruddy SB Live in there for games/whatever and explicitly point foobar and maybe Power DVD to use the 0404 for mp3/CD/DVDs?

we, NOOBS must hold together

here is what i asked and it looks like 2 cards is no problem at all:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91624
, btw, i have an audigy2 , too

 

[rincewind]

Ouch.. the 0404 doesn't do that dodgy resampling does it??

Don't care about the Audigy if I can run with my existing SB Live for avg apps and 0404 for music

PS, thanks for the link poker face

 

[commando]

0404 doesn't resample unless you tell it to. Dual sounds cards is easy, I can have the 1212, the AV710 and internal sound all installed and working.... I don't, but I can

 

[Mr.Radar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rincewind Ouch.. the 0404 doesn't do that dodgy resampling does it??

No, it doesn't resample. It's also bit perfect if you have no effects enabled.

 

[rincewind]

Hold your horses...

If CDs produce audio at 44.1kHz, why do people care about soundcards outputting at higher kHz (other than for home recording)? Even more so with mp3's and ANY compressed format! They won't get anywhere near 44.1kHz. And the 0404 and even the SB Live both share the same processor (EMU10K1 I believe).

So in that case, why don't I just chuck in another SB Live and be done with it?

Man, I'm talking to too many ppl with conflicting views. But my mate who just pointed out this sampling rate thing makes a very good point.

What's the point of soundcards with 192kHz DACs? ADC's I can understand.. you'd want as much detail coming in at whatever rate you can manage. But for playing back CD's and lesser sources, surely 44.1kHz is the absolute limit u need?

 

[S_Dedalus]

There are more important aspects to sound cards than sampling rates. It's the quality of conversion that matters, and the 0404 is better at doing this than the audigy.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rincewind What's the point of soundcards with 192kHz DACs? ADC's I can understand.. you'd want as much detail coming in at whatever rate you can manage. But for playing back CD's and lesser sources, surely 44.1kHz is the absolute limit u need?

Yep. Google for the nyquist theorm (excepct spell it properly) for a bit of background information.

 

[gaboo]

Don't know what DSP 0404 has, but if it's 10K2 like the one in 1212m/1820(m), you're asking for trouble if you plan to put an audigy 2 in the same pc.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaboo Don't know what DSP 0404 has, but if it's 10K2 like the one in 1212m/1820(m), you're asking for trouble if you plan to put an audigy 2 in the same pc.

Balls. What does it matter what parts the two sounds cards have, even if they're in the same machine. Whether it's a good idea or not is a judgement call, whether it will work shouldn't be being questioned.