[Mr.Radar]

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Originally Posted by Aman Their hardware AND software is pretty much broken. They don't put quality into their products at all, which is why almost all recording studios despise the Creative "high-end" products. I myself do studio work and I really needed the quality that the M-Audio cards give. As far as audio reproduction goes, it is as technical, detailed, and balanced as you are going to get in the price range.

EMU is not Creative!!! How many times do we have to say that? Just because Creative owns EMU it doesn't mean that they automatically do everything exactly like their parent.

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And the reason that the card sounds better in Linux is because the drivers aren't being made by Creative. Believe it or not, the sound quality greatly depends on the quality of the drivers, and since the day Creative became more focused on gaming products and hardware, the drivers went down hill very quickly.

The EMU 0404 isn't supported under Linux, though the Audigy series (truely Creative crap) is, and there are alternative Windows drivers available that are good (sound-quality wise) for the Audigy. Also, Creative doesn't make the EMU 0404's drivers, EMU does.

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Again, if you WANT broken hardware and broken drivers, and use windows - by all means get a creative card. The sound quality, I GUESS, is up to you guys. If you want QUALITY, and RELIABILITY, and REALLY good drivers for both Windows and for ALSA from the skilled Linux community, get an M-Audio PCI interface.

The EMU 0404 in this context is an audiophile soundcard, not a professional soundcard (i.e. it doesn't need to be absolutely 100% accurate and neutral to be "good"). For it's price it is great, and if you want something more neutral get the EMU 1212m (which can be had at Guitar Center for ~$165). The hardware is sound, the software is sound (and getting better with every release), and 95% of the world uses Windows (I personally would love to use Linux, except X never works right and ALSA is crap).

 

[MikoLayer]

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Originally Posted by gaboo Also, the 10K2 chip only has one clock giving 48Khz on the Audigy2. On the 0404 and 1212m/1820/1820m (it's the same pci card called 1010 on these three), you get two clocks (44.1 & 48), so there's no resampling going on. Btw, the DSP on E-MU cards cannot be used above 48Khz, which sux imo, because it is quite useful (ain't that a contradiction): you get up to 16(?) 2 band parametric equalizers. And they distort much less than what foobar provides. The same DSP is programmed differently on Audigy 2: EAX yada, yada.

sounds interesting, i am using foobareq at this point... mind explaining how to use DSP patchmix EQ?

 

[Aman]

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Originally Posted by Mr.Radar The EMU 0404 in this context is an audiophile soundcard, not a professional soundcard (i.e. it doesn't need to be absolutely 100% accurate and neutral to be "good"). For it's price it is great, and if you want something more neutral get the EMU 1212m (which can be had at Guitar Center for ~$165). The hardware is sound, the software is sound (and getting better with every release), and 95% of the world uses Windows (I personally would love to use Linux, except X never works right and ALSA is crap).

ALSA is NOT crap...

It sounds better than almost all the equivelant windows drivers. The only reason anything is "crap" to anyones' minds in Linux is because they can't get it to work, and if I can get it to work, then anyone can...

A professional sound card can be an audiophile one as well! The idea of a source is to get as much of the information on the song file out as possible, and then the amp and headphones can do the different balances and coloring! You can't make the faults of a sound card to its advantage!

 

[ooheadsoo]

Miko: On the right side, there's an fx button. Click it and the fx will pop up. Under core effects, you'll find the eq functions. Drag and drop them to the strip you need them on. Then configure to your heart's content.

Aman, I always thought midiman/maudio was local to me, in SoCal. I think you should hear the emu before casting aspersions on it, especially when it measures better to boot. Not that a few measurements say everything.

 

[gaboo]

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Originally Posted by Aman ALSA is NOT crap...

Agreed.

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It sounds better than almost all the equivelant windows drivers.

This probably an overstatement. The only way it can sound better is (a) have better algorithms for various things like mixing or resampling, and/or (b) upload better firmware to those cards that are DSP based.

I cannot comment on (a), since I don't have much experience with that. In my experience however the opposite of (b) usually happens, i.e. some manufacturers to do not release enough info for the DSP to be programmed, so you have less functionality and more bugs than the Windows drivers [e.g. Santa Cruz drivers have the dreaded metallic sound]. There are some exceptions, e.g. the P16V driver for Audigy 2 cards.

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The only reason anything is "crap" to anyones' minds in Linux is because they can't get it to work, and if I can get it to work, then anyone can...

Dude, you are at MIT.

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A professional sound card can be an audiophile one as well! The idea of a source is to get as much of the information on the song file out as possible, and then the amp and headphones can do the different balances and coloring!

Agreed.

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You can't make the faults of a sound card to its advantage!

You lost me on this one.

 

[lan]

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Originally Posted by Aman what about neutrality and the highs? the 0404 had a very unballanced sound, greatly favoring powerful midrange and more agressive music.

Neutrality is just a matter of opinion and equipment. What heaphones and amp did you use?

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Originally Posted by Aman The 24/96 had a very neutral, very detailed presentation, and the highs were not the least bit rolled off. The only thing that it misses is the musicality, but an amp fixes this problem immediately.

Some people want musicality, others want detail, others want neutrality. It seems that you put musicality as secondary to more detail and neutrality as you'd rather have the AP 24/96 which you find has more detail and is more neutral but less musical.

Let me put a different perspective on Audiophile 24/96 vs. emu 0404. The AP24/96 is not as detailed, and you then add an amp to "excite" things more. That choice has thrown the neutrality of the emu 0404 off "balance".

In the end it's about system matching.

I don't think the AP/24 is very detailed. It's average level of detail is more homogenizing.

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Originally Posted by Aman The idea of a source is to get as much of the information on the song file out as possible, and then the amp and headphones can do the different balances and coloring! You can't make the faults of a sound card to its advantage!

Yes a source should be able to get as much info out of the song as possible and I think the emu is better at detail retreival. If you can't really hear the emu gets more out of your setup, then I advise looking for some other bottlenecks in your system.

You can make the "faults" of a piece of equipment work to your advantage. Some people don't like ultra revealing setups but rather have things more pleasant. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't follow that decision but others do.

 

[Aman]

Ian: I agree with you much more now.

ooheadsoo: I did an A/B with these two exact models before purchasing one.

Gaboo: What I meant was that you can't say that a fault of the card (which happens to strengthen the card with specific types of music) is an actual STRENGTH. This is my opinion, however - some people want the source to make the music as enjoyable as possible, but I feel that the source should be as ACCURATE as possible, and that other equipment determines the enjoyment. After all, amps never take detail away, they only add to it while making presentation much warmer and enjoyable (especially in tube amps).