[Pharmaboy]

Here's what's so bonkers about this little argument breaking out here: the person who said this ("I don't understand why people don't trust their own hearing. My other dac is a Chord Mojo. I listened to all three inputs in the context of MY system. Why did I not like coax? I have no clue...but it was pretty easy to hear.") is not drawing "technical conclusions." He's just stating what he hears in his system. Sure, it's totally subjective. What's wrong with that?

Hearing is one of the human senses; it need not play by empirical rules unless for some reason that that becomes situationally desirable--ie, an audio reviewer should butress subjective opinions by citing technical factors; a headphone designer has to "voice" the product to appeal to potential buyers, while reproducing music with some degree of fidelity.

When I state a sonic preference based on how I hear this or that, I'm not dictating that anyone else should perceive the same thing. I'm also not judging others who hear things differently. But here on Head-Fi & elsewhere, those who assert "objectivist" arguments (involving physics, electrical, or acoustic technicalities) very often do imply those factors give their perceptions greater weight--or that those who fail to factor in "objective" factors are somehow whistling through their paper hats.

Moreover, how I hear something (and explain what I hear) is not comparable in any real way to medicine, where we require "objective" input of highly trained medical professionals to help us prevent or recover from illness. It's also not comparable to rocket science, particle vs wave theory, and any number of other things. Why should it be?

I'm very comfortable saying the coax input sounds better than USB IMS. It's just an opinion. I'm not signing an affidavit on the topi; this isn't the Court of the Hague.

 

[leeperry]

major problem is that good sounding USB is very very far from PNP and S/PDIF is an obsolete broken-by-design protocol: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/1788545-post2.html

 

[Currawong]

I don't want to go through 5 pages of arguments, but did anyone ask the OP which Schiit stack he was going to pick up? It'd be a big difference if it were a small or a big one.

Of that, I've had the Yggy here now for a long time, and left the USB plugged in via a separate PSU, as it uses external power, and it's a lot closer in performance to my external S/PDIF card than it was when I first got it. My suggestion is: Buy the stack and worry about external options later on.

 

[Gilles De Rais]

To the OP.

Can I suggest looking at this from another angle. There are a number of music replay software programs that can (theorectically) improve music replay from a Computer - JRIver, Amarra, Fidelio, AudiophileOptimizer etc. The prices range from free to many hundreds of dollars. Some of these work best with usb and some with SPDIF or are source input agnostic. See if any of these float your boat and then adjust your choice of input accordingly.

regards,

Giles

 

[Sanlitun]

In my experience which connective method is superior lies with how the DAC is designed, and whether or not its SPDIF is capable of sounding better than the USB. Often DACs are using very basic SPDIF receivers or even just only the receiver built into a Sabre chip to handle coax. And in comparison much more engineering and effort goes into their USB receiver.

I have DACs that don't sound as good via an external DDC because their SPDIF implementation is not that good (Matrix X-Sabre), and as well DACs that don't sound as good via DDC because their USB implementation is very good (Brooklyn).

Anyways it's all about what the listener prefers.

 

[xivlia]

i used Toslink.

 

[Redcarmoose]

A Monster IDL1002M Datalink 100 Digital S/PDIF Coaxial Cable is what sounds best from a CD transport to a DAC for me.

Nice to read a thread with some enthusiast talk here, reminds me of how Head-Fi started to educate itself in 2009 at the dawn of USB. The important thing here is for everyone is to find their own reference sound (with any cable). After that the convience of computers or USB is a great sidetrack as long as you know what your missing.

Funny too is the amazing USB cable backlash that seems to have come about. But in essence that's what this hobby is; simply trends and concepts learned about through time and tribulation.

But it's also the summation sound of the complete system, the source, the amp and the headphone. Still trying to get real proof of jitter from the source affecting and growing as an issue down the chain may never ever be totally proved on paper? It's that subjective feeling (when USB cable listening) that something in the timing is slightly off? The actual placement of instruments against a black stable background with USB cables never seems to totally get there? And sadly it took years for many of us to come to that realization, some (like myself) simply finding out through trial and error and luck.

 

[crazychile]

To the OP:

AES/EBU>Coax S/PDIF> Toslink > USB. In reality the differences between Toslink and USB are usually so close to not really matter.

However, If you are buying a Schiit D/A, Buy at least the Bifrost or higher model which will have the new Gen 5 USB card. This brings the USB performance up to a level comparable to Coax or AES/EBU.

 

[theveterans]

AES/EBU>Coax S/PDIF> Toslink > USB. In reality the differences between Toslink and USB are usually so close to not really matter.

There's so much more into that. Implementation heavily matters Schiit's Gen 5 USB is regarded by some user to be on par with AES/EBU or COAX for example

 

[crazychile]

There's so much more into that. Implementation heavily matters Schiit's Gen 5 USB is regarded by some user to be on par with AES/EBU or COAX for example

You could have just read the second part of my post:

....."However, If you are buying a Schiit D/A, Buy at least the Bifrost or higher model which will have the new Gen 5 USB card. This brings the USB performance up to a level comparable to Coax or AES/EBU."

 

[chef8489]

This was a while ago, the stack was a mimby and vali 2 and I am using both toslink and usb. Dont currently have room for anything larger than the mimby and the vali 2 so nothing else was an option.

 

[Swiftfalcon]

USB is audio data straight out of computer processor.

Spdif is audio information from an internal soundcard. The data that would have gone straight from the processor to a USB port is instead routed from the processor to the soundcard via PCI express lanes or similar channels. The soundcard then converts this data into spdif audio information.

Leads me to believe usb is more ‘raw’ and ‘pure’ at least in theory. In practice not so simple I guess.

If I absolutely wanted to use optical audio signals, I would actually trust an external DDC to generate it rather than an internal soundcard.

 

[Pharmaboy]

USB is audio data straight out of computer processor.

Spdif is audio information from an internal soundcard. The data that would have gone straight from the processor to a USB port is instead routed from the processor to the soundcard via PCI express lanes or similar channels. The soundcard then converts this data into spdif audio information.

Leads me to believe usb is more ‘raw’ and ‘pure’ at least in theory. In practice not so simple I guess.

If I absolutely wanted to use optical audio signals, I would actually trust an external DDC to generate it rather than an internal soundcard.

I trust my computer to send USB signals direct to my DAC, or to my external DDC to convert USB to S/PDIF (coax digital) output, then on the DAC.

But I don't trust any internal soundcard to do S/PDIF conversion. Once I stopped listening to the output of soundcards (ie, digital-to-analogue conversion by soundcard), everything opened up and got better in my system. Yes, that meant I needed an external DAC, but the extra $$ and wiring was more than repaid in better sound. I also realize sonic improvements by using an external DDC for S/PDIF conversion (currently it's Musical Fidelity V-Link 192/24); I hear something from a good coax cable that is better IMO than straight USB.

However, I freely admit that I never tried any really good, well engineered sound cards (internal or external). There are such things, but my one experience trying to upgrade soundcards was memorable/horrible, so never continued trying.

 

[Dvdlucena]

Can someone help to discover if in the Psaudio direcstream the AES/EBU input its better than USB? cannot test it. thanks

 

[Elecroestatico]

yes the toslink output in pc's often don't go more than 24bit -96 khz so you need to take this limitation ito count. I have an audigy 5 rx that im using to stream bit perfect to chord mojo via optical. The audigy card can stream bit perfect but only at a maximun of 24bit at 96khz. When you open audigy software you can check a box that says allow bit streaming via toslink.

The best you can do is try both and use the one that sounds better for you, as there are many variables in the electronics of your transport and your decoder.

For example for me sound is best with optical via the audigy card, but i always wonder how good is the implementation of the optical out in the audigy, I hope is of good quality but if someone knows of better transports for around $100 I'd like to hear from them. I remember there was a bare board with a popular chip for optical conversion up to 192khz 32 or 24 bit for 40 buck on amazon, but I dont remember more.