KGSShv Carbon - hows it sound with the 009s?
Mar 6, 2017 at 6:32 PM Post #406 of 834
Not trying to promo my own thread, but check here, too. For me, the Utopia was a real ear-opener. Would I choose it over my Stax? No, but it's damn fine, and with the Utopia, you do have amp choices you would not have with the Stax.


Doesn't matter what Amp choices you may throw at it, being dynamic drivers, it has it weakness. Stax is ES, and so it is a better physical being already :D. If you want to say the weakness of Stax ? It is not portable, and it is expensive as hell. That is that

Utopia maybe a game changer for dynamic technology, but Stax is another realm of technology and hence it limitations is on another planes. Good thing about Utopia is that ic and drive it out of portable players. However, to seek the ultimate performances, I am now building my carbon :frowning2:....will be expensive
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 6:41 PM Post #407 of 834
All drivers have their weaknesses. I love electrostats and always have, but they're not perfect, and the amp you put on a dynamic headphone can make an audible difference in its performance. I have both types in multiple iterations, and have invested in each deeply, and listened to them carefully. Neither is better at everything than another.
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 7:41 PM Post #408 of 834
All drivers have their weaknesses. I love electrostats and always have, but they're not perfect, and the amp you put on a dynamic headphone can make an audible difference in its performance. I have both types in multiple iterations, and have invested in each deeply, and listened to them carefully. Neither is better at everything than another.


I have to agree to this statement :). However, it does seem that being ES, Stax limitatoins has expanded beyond the limitations of Dynamic drivers. But again, nothing is perfect :D
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 7:44 PM Post #409 of 834
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Mar 6, 2017 at 8:12 PM Post #410 of 834
The whole STAX debate is rough. 1 amplifier for 1 headphone (or another by STAX). It's so limited in choice.
 
Personally, unlike you, I prefer the Utopia over both the SR-009 & SR-007 regardless of weather they are paired with the BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon. Electrostatics sound super nice without a doubt, but for some craving decent levels of bass, they just don't deliver. I feel the same way about planar's like from HiFiMAN or Audeze. They produce a sound and indeed it does go deep and well extended, it just however doesn't have the dynamic impact air movement feeling. I would only recommend electrostatics to those who listen to more classical music with lots of vocals as they are dead center of being neutral. In comparison the Audeze is dark while with the HiFiMAN it could be a hair above or below neutral in my opinion.
 
Utopia comes quite close to STAX domain but will never truly perform at the same level. I still find that a feat especially for Dynamic driver technology. If the strengths of electrostatic technology is what you love and cannot settle for less, then stay with STAX. If you want a warmer sound get the SR-007. More neutral sound, get the SR-009. If you want more body to the sound with a mild improvement, save up for an Orpheus.
 
Some are lucky to go both directions, having multiple headphones to compliment one another. I however prefer dynamic cone drivers and spending all my money on the Utopia does not let me expand the other way into electrostatics. I have had the SR-009 paired with a KGSSHV Carbon not too long ago after I sold my Utopia just to afford it. After having it for a few weeks I've realized it was not for me. I'm more on Hip Hop, R&B, EDM, House, and Pop so electrostatics just doesn't cut it. The Utopia however performs exquisitely with those genre's. HD800S does so too, but only when equalized. Even when equalized they still sound somewhat thin with the treble being a little sharp and overly etched. There's know equalizing that. It's the headphone's weakness. Bass of the HD800S is still not in comparison to the Utopia which is louder and more articulate. Midrange of the Utopia is more forward than the HD800S. It's sound stage is smaller sound stage, but more realistic as it doesn't give this synthetic feel to it. While I do find the SR-009 to produce incredible lifelike sounding instrument timbre's, I prefer the Utopia as it has more body, umph, and decay to it. It's extremely fast, just not godly fast like the STAX.
 
Regardless of which, I hope you're happy with whichever gear you purchase.
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 8:21 PM Post #411 of 834
Dynamic and punches...is the advantages of the dynamic drivers :D speeds is the ES advantages. Bets to get both .... there is only 1 life to live...lol. Utopia is phenomenal for a dynamic drivers though, it had raised yet another bar to Dynamic technology :). The free-edge diaphragm technology is now being used with Denon DN-7200 as well. I can't help but wonder how it performs with the bio-cell membrane
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 10:49 PM Post #413 of 834
Not trying to promo my own thread, but check here, too. For me, the Utopia was a real ear-opener. Would I choose it over my Stax? No, but it's damn fine, and with the Utopia, you do have amp choices you would not have with the Stax.

Nice post man.I am definitely buying 007 and 009 now. The only thing concerned me before was people writing **** like
"Utopia is better than 009 in every aspect" in some other forums.
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 10:57 PM Post #414 of 834
Nice post man.I am definitely buying 007 and 009 now. The only thing concerned me before was people writing **** like
"Utopia is better than 009 in every aspect" in some other forums.



No....just No...remember, Stax needs a good amplifier primarily...and then a good DAC. Utopia is easy, you can hook it up to DAC/Amp integrated with an upgraded cables and call it a day. To be fair, if you match, pairing and synergy with Utopia your best, and then don't spend a worth of it on Stax, the Utopia will pull ahead.

Kitsune edition 3 DAC, a Carbon or T2 and 007/009...I would want to see what system That Utopia can do to beat it....lol....the reason I am building my carbon now is....very obvious while using Utopia and ta-zh1es atm
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 11:01 PM Post #415 of 834
No....just No...remember, Stax needs a good amplifier primarily...and then a good DAC. Utopia is easy, you can hook it up to DAC/Amp integrated with an upgraded cables and call it a day. To be fair, if you match, pairing and synergy with Utopia your best, and then don't spend a worth of it on Stax, the Utopia will pull ahead.

Kitsune edition 3 DAC, a Carbon or T2 and 007/009...I would want to see what system That Utopia can do to beat it....lol....the reason I am building my carbon now is....very obvious while using Utopia and ta-zh1es atm

I am using the same amp/dac combo as you.
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 11:29 PM Post #416 of 834
Nice post man.I am definitely buying 007 and 009 now. The only thing concerned me before was people writing **** like
"Utopia is better than 009 in every aspect" in some other forums.

Thanks. I like the Utopia very much, but if I could only have one system, it would be the Stax. But as Whitigir notes, the Utopia requires less investment for it to achieve its potential.
 
Mar 6, 2017 at 11:32 PM Post #417 of 834
Thanks. I like the Utopia very much, but if I could only have one system, it would be the Stax. But as Whitigir notes, the Utopia requires less investment for it to achieve its potential.

I think utopia's biggest weaknesses is its soundstage and it's dynamic punch could be fatiguing while electrostats deliver overall a better balance.
 
Mar 7, 2017 at 7:12 AM Post #418 of 834
I think utopia's biggest weaknesses is its soundstage and it's dynamic punch could be fatiguing while electrostats deliver overall a better balance.


I am fine with the Utopia soundstage and dynamic. If u used copper wires, the Utopia has a lot more slams and bass with a more closed in soundstage, just use silver-goldmcables and u will love it. IMO, the weakness of Utopia is the treble speed for the lower trebles and upper mid
 
Mar 7, 2017 at 8:21 AM Post #419 of 834
I am fine with the Utopia soundstage and dynamic. If u used copper wires, the Utopia has a lot more slams and bass with a more closed in soundstage, just use silver-goldmcables and u will love it. IMO, the weakness of Utopia is the treble speed for the lower trebles and upper mid

Doesn't Sr 009 have more resolution,Soundstage,bass extension,treble extension and speed?
 
Mar 7, 2017 at 9:00 AM Post #420 of 834
 
I am fine with the Utopia soundstage and dynamic. If u used copper wires, the Utopia has a lot more slams and bass with a more closed in soundstage, just use silver-goldmcables and u will love it. IMO, the weakness of Utopia is the treble speed for the lower trebles and upper mid

Doesn't Sr 009 have more resolution,Soundstage,bass extension,treble extension and speed?


I would say get a demo to know for sure. Have you got access to both 009 and Utopia? I thought you already had an opinion on the 2 together? I would say get more time with both before you push the money trigger. It is a big spend and only hearing these two will resolve it IMO. Peoples preferences and amp / DAC choices come into it a lot, even how loud they play them as well.
 
I haven't heard the Utopia yet, but I would offer my opinion on the bass quality of the 009s. I have big horn speaker in my HT system with 12 inch bass units and augmented with a Velodyne sub. So my HT system goes down to below 30Hz and is fast and dynamic, partly as my room is not so big and I am sitting really close. 
 
The bass on the 009 goes as lower, is faster and more textured than my speakers, possibly not as forceful but you get room pressurisation in a speaker system, something very difficult to replicate with headphones. It's character is not as 'bloomy' as a speakers bass maybe? It is different, but still very convincing. It is also NOT one note bass as in some headphones, especially fed by digital. Bass quality is spot on with the 009s IMO, if it was increased in level it would, I am convinced smear the mid range and treble and muddy the soundstage and reduce the 3D image. Remember the ears get fatigue with too much bass and will react by 'closing the shutter' so to speak, i.e. reducing the reception coming into the ear.
 
An example, I have an Armin Van Buuren track that is very well mastered and has a rubbling and pumping bass line, it flows up and down like the pulse of an elephant for example. It underpins the track and sounds like an earthquake in waves, hard to explain, but on the speaker system it is powerful but not as tuneful. On the 009s I hear the texture of the bass tune, the subtle phasing and pulsing as it rumbled along and at the same time all the rest of the frequency spectrum is working to the max. i.e. the 009 has the uncanny skill to handle both aspects at the same time, like it is no problem, ha ha, what do you want me to do next.
 
That bass character is a challenge to reproduce in any speaker IMO, and I have tested that track on many setups. The 009 and Carbon nail it, totally. I am saying, the bass is there, and there is tons of information and texture to it, it is not exaggerated or one note. It is something to get used to IMO. The whole stat sound is something to get used to TBH, and for some it grabs them, others just never relate to it, which is understandable as we all have different tastes and expectations of how music should sound.
 
I listen to lots of genres and bass demanding music such as trance and house music sound great to me on the 009s. Lots of drive and pace, really damb good. I really don't feel any need to up the bass at all. I have done that in the past with digi EQ by around +2-3 db before I finished my DAC tube rolling. But now I feel no need of it. Tyll in his review upped the bass EQ on his Utopia by 5dB I believe.
 
My other thoughts / theory on the bass output is, unlike a 'normal' house speaker system with 2 or 3 way designs, the 009 and most other HPs are single driver. If that driver has to produce as ruler flat and fast response as possible to provide the illusion of a live music event, it will have a hard time indeed getting loaded up with too much bass energy.
 
Also 'maybe' folk coming across from V shaped HP's (massive generalisation and not meant as an insult) they may well find the Stax model too different?
 
I guess no HP will be perfect, relate the live event with the huge dynamic power and 3D image that can be experienced. But the 009 IMO gets me close enough, close enough to forget the gear and track swopping and sit back and chill with it. Sometimes late at night, and putting the 009s on they blow me away to another place, they are that good IMO.
 
I do also believe they are ruthless at revealing upstream gear, a microscope to what is going on, so much so it demands more investment elsewhere or the owner will never be happy and have to move on....
 
Hope this helps
 

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