[Stillhart]

   
I own the Jot (with DAC) for couple months.  I was wondering whether LC is a worthwhile upgrade, or just stick to the Jot.  The DAC sounds OK to me (did not A/B it to anything) out of my desktop Windows PC.
 
IF I decide to upgrade (again, assuming it is an upgrade 

) - should I go with LC, or one of the new $1500 tubes ("Ambience") ?  ...and what DAC would YOU pair either the LC or Ambience with?

 
Well I mean, I'd rather have the LC than the Jot because I like the way it sounds better.  The mini Crimson is a step up from the LC and definitely an upgrade from the Jot.  If you're even considering getting one of the new ones, I'd get them over the LC.  But they're not going to be ready anytime soon so you may be better off finding a used LC in the mean time.  You'll get the Cavalli magic on a smaller scale.  And if you don't like it, they sell pretty quickly.
 
As to a DAC, I'm using a Mojo currently on the Liquid Crimson and it's great.  Maybe a bit too warm if your headphones are already on the warm side, but it's awesome with the HD800.  IMHO, you have to spend a good chunk more money to get something better than the Mojo.  But as many people around here know, I don't really like Delta-Sigma DAC's so that narrows the options considerably.  lol

 

[buke9]

Well I mean, I'd rather have the LC than the Jot because I like the way it sounds better.  The mini Crimson is a step up from the LC and definitely an upgrade from the Jot.  If you're even considering getting one of the new ones, I'd get them over the LC.  But they're not going to be ready anytime soon so you may be better off finding a used LC in the mean time.  You'll get the Cavalli magic on a smaller scale.  And if you don't like it, they sell pretty quickly.

As to a DAC, I'm using a Mojo currently on the Liquid Crimson and it's great.  Maybe a bit too warm if your headphones are already on the warm side, but it's awesome with the HD800.  IMHO, you have to spend a good chunk more money to get something better than the Mojo.  But as many people around here know, I don't really like Delta-Sigma DAC's so that narrows the options considerably.  lol

You think the Mojo is better than the Dac-19 you had?

 

[Zachik]

   
Well I mean, I'd rather have the LC than the Jot because I like the way it sounds better.  The mini Crimson is a step up from the LC and definitely an upgrade from the Jot.  If you're even considering getting one of the new ones, I'd get them over the LC.  But they're not going to be ready anytime soon so you may be better off finding a used LC in the mean time.  You'll get the Cavalli magic on a smaller scale.  And if you don't like it, they sell pretty quickly.
 
As to a DAC, I'm using a Mojo currently on the Liquid Crimson and it's great.  Maybe a bit too warm if your headphones are already on the warm side, but it's awesome with the HD800.  IMHO, you have to spend a good chunk more money to get something better than the Mojo.  But as many people around here know, I don't really like Delta-Sigma DAC's so that narrows the options considerably.  lol

 
I know the new ones are due in 6-7 months or so (before Christmas).  I am thinking ahead...  

 
One of the things I really like about the Jot is the flexibility - I connect the pre-outs to my amped LS305s, and I have both XLR balanced out as well as SE headphones out.
Will the new Cavallis provide that flexibility / connectivity?
 
Re: DAC - have you tried the MultiBit DACs by Schiit?  Just curious as for your opinion...

 

[TSAVJason]

I own the Jot (with DAC) for couple months.  I was wondering whether LC is a worthwhile upgrade, or just stick to the Jot.  The DAC sounds OK to me (did not A/B it to anything) out of my desktop Windows PC.

IF I decide to upgrade (again, assuming it is an upgrade :tongue_smile: ) - should I go with LC, or one of the new $1500 tubes ("Ambience") ?  ...and what DAC would YOU pair either the LC or Ambience with?

So LC's are history as far as new units are concerned. I hear about used LC's occasionally but only from the 2nd or 3rd owners asking how best to utilize them. So the "Ambience" (skunkworks name) is a single ended hybrid and the Platinum is balanced hybrid. Both great! Don't ask which I prefer I was only afforded a small window to listen to them. I learn toward the Platinum from 1st listen I guess.

The Mojo is a sweet DAC really for the money. I might suggest you continue with that DAC until you get your new amp and check out their synergy.

 

[Zachik]

So LC's are history as far as new units are concerned. I hear about used LC's occasionally but only from the 2nd or 3rd owners asking how best to utilize them. So the "Ambience" (skunkworks name) is a single ended hybrid and the Platinum is balanced hybrid. Both great! Don't ask which I prefer I was only afforded a small window to listen to them. I learn toward the Platinum from 1st listen I guess.

The Mojo is a sweet DAC really for the money. I might suggest you continue with that DAC until you get your new amp and check out their synergy.

 
Jason - what's the difference between the two?
Liquid Ambiance $1500
Liquid Platinum $1500
 
I understand the Platinum is balanced, while Ambience is SE. But, they are expected to cost the same.  So, what's the catch?  

 
Would be very useful if Alex or Warren (or you, Jason) could help with some high-level comparison between the two... (including connectivity)

 

[runeight]

Price points are still being worked on, but they are not the same category of amp.
 
The interface elements are still being decided but I can say that the proto ambience has 2 selectable RCA inputs. The platinum has selectable either Bal (XLR) or SE (RCA) much like the carbon.
 
The platinum is likely to have only Bal 4 pin XLR outs. No SE like the carbon has. But still in consideration. I'm beginning to believe that using a balanced amp from only half of its outputs is sort of a waste and doesn't really reflect the capabilities of the system. I do know for some folks TRS may be the only way at any particular time, but maybe you all can re-terminate your headphones. 

 And for those earlier headphone models that cannot be run with electrically separate earpieces, maybe you should consider a tungsten. 

 
The ambience will have at least one TRS and one 4 pin XLR.

 

[runeight]

Both the ambience and the platinum are what I call embedded or blended hybrids. The first amp in this line of hybrids was the liquid fire. I call it embedded because the tubes are embedded into the SS circuitry without using any coupling caps while still running at their higher voltages. The ambience and platinum are both DC coupled from front to back, no caps in the signal path. I happen to like this type of hybrid because I think it blends the best of what tubes and SS can do into a unified sound combining both of them.

 

[Zachik]

  Price points are still being worked on, but they are not the same category of amp.
 
The interface elements are still being decided but I can say that the proto ambience has 2 selectable RCA inputs. The platinum has selectable either Bal (XLR) or SE (RCA) much like the carbon.
 
The platinum is likely to have only Bal 4 pin XLR outs. No SE like the carbon has. But still in consideration. I'm beginning to believe that using a balanced amp from only half of its outputs is sort of a waste and doesn't really reflect the capabilities of the system. I do know for some folks TRS may be the only way at any particular time, but maybe you all can re-terminate your headphones. 

 And for those earlier headphone models that cannot be run with electrically separate earpieces, maybe you should consider a tungsten. 

 
The ambience will have at least one TRS and one 4 pin XLR.

 
Thanks Alex.  I believe that having a SE output for the Platinum (although being "a waste") is still very useful for many people. Some of my headphones are balanced (XLR) and some are SE (6.3mm)... 
I would also ask you to consider pre-amp outputs for desktop amp'd speakers.  If that doesn't compromise SQ or design - it could help some folks in their desktop setup. Just saying.
 
Alex - can you also give some info on the LC sequel? I understand it is going to be a little pricier ($999 vs. $799) - can you elaborate on design goals for the new SS amp compared to the LC?
 
Thanks,
Zachi.

 

[runeight]

Ummm, do you mean a Liquid Carbon sequel??

 

[Neo Zuko]

I just hope the successor to the solid state Liquid Gold is balanced input and output. Or is balanced not really that beneficial? I am only looking for balanced as the WM1A is balanced and I don't want to buy two sets of high end headphone cables.

 

[Zachik]

  Ummm, do you mean a Liquid Carbon sequel??

Yes. Can you share with us your goals for improvements over Liquid Carbon?

 

[Stillhart]

You think the Mojo is better than the Dac-19 you had?

 
Yeah, after much comparison I think the Mojo is slightly better.  They have a similar tonality (slightly warm and very realistic, unlike D-S) but the Mojo is faster/cleaner.  One of the big knocks against the DAC-19 and its family is that it can be a bit... muddy?  That's the speed or lack thereof.  Mojo has fantastic transients that lend it a cleaner sound without taking away from what I like about the DAC-19.  It's also smaller and cheaper and can run off batteries and has a built-in amp for use in a pinch.  It's a pretty clear winner in my mind all things considered.  
 

   
I know the new ones are due in 6-7 months or so (before Christmas).  I am thinking ahead...  

 
One of the things I really like about the Jot is the flexibility - I connect the pre-outs to my amped LS305s, and I have both XLR balanced out as well as SE headphones out.
Will the new Cavallis provide that flexibility / connectivity?
 
Re: DAC - have you tried the MultiBit DACs by Schiit?  Just curious as for your opinion...

 
All the amps above the Liquid Carbon had a "loop out" port.  It's not a preamp out, it's just passing the raw signal along, but it lets you chain the source to another amp or powered speakers.  I know the latest Liquid Tungsten prototype has this as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if the two new prototypes get this before they're finalized.
 
I've tried the Multibit DACs by Schiit, yes.  They're all good, but in my humble opinion, they are all a bit overpriced compared to the competition.  Well, all except the Modi Multibit, which really doesn't have any competition.  Mojo makes the BMB obsolete IMHO.  And when I did a thorough comparison of the GMB to the DAC-19 I thought they had pros and cons but none seemed clearly superior to the other... that led me to keep the DAC-19 simply for its warmer tonality.  So since the Mojo is better than the DAC-19 to my ears, I think it'd give the GMB a run for its money in a direct A/B.
 
As to the Yggy, I had hoped to do a big comparison of it vs the Hugo2 and Holo DAC and maybe one of the Metrum DACs.  But I don't have easy access to a Yggy anymore so I don't know if that's going to happen.  But yeah, I think the Hugo2 is going to compete favorably with it.  The Schiit fanboys will probably crucify me for saying all this, but opinions are like ass holes... we all have them and they all stink.  

 

I just hope the successor to the solid state Liquid Gold is balanced input and output. Or is balanced not really that beneficial? I am only looking for balanced as the WM1A is balanced and I don't want to buy two sets of high end headphone cables.

 
If the amp circuit is balanced, it'll have balanced in and out.  The amp doesn't need to be balanced to sound amazing (see: Liquid Tungsten) so yeah... I guess we'll see.

 

[wardo783]

Will the ambience do well with IEMs?

 

[Stillhart]

Will the ambience do well with IEMs?

 
I know one of the gentlemen from JH Audio spent some time on the Ambiance with his custom Layla and enjoyed it.  Alex wasn't sure if the noise floor would be good enough for IEM's but it seemed fine with that particular one.

 

[felix3650]

  The "Ambience" is purely SE, so does not use a phase splitter. Also, it is a tube hybrid while the carbon is pure SS. Because the Carbon is balanced it makes more power than the Ambience.
 
Others, perhaps, can comment on the differences in sound.

 
 

  I haven't had a chance to listen to them all back to back.  But I describe the sound kind of like this:  You have the Cavalli "house sound" that's the magic combo of being detailed AND musical at the same time.  Within that house sound you have stuff that's closer to the detailed side (i.e. Liquid Crimson) and closer to the musical side (i.e. Liquid Tungsten).  To my ears, the "mini Crimson" is on the detailed extreme and the "Ambiance" is on the musical extreme.  The Carbon sits in the middle somewhere.

 
Thank you both Alex and Dan. My LC is in for repairs so I haven't heard yet the "house sound".
 
To recap:
 
The Liquid "Platinum" (mini Crimson) is  a tube/solid state hybrid and a fully balanced design based on the component placement. And that PCB with the green wires must be the phase splitter with a heatsink on top
 

 
The Liquid "Ambience" instead uses a tube/solid stade hybrid design with a single ended topology.
I thought it was balanced because I saw a 4pin XLR socket as the output. I guess that must be for convenience of connecting high-end cans with a balanced cable

 

 
I have time to decide which is more to my preference