Okay so I'm thinking of getting either the schiit magni 2 or just the fulla but I wanna know. Will I hear a lot of difference than if I didn't have an amp/dac at all. I don't care about specs I just wanna know if I will hear a significant difference that would make it worth 100 bucks
Okay so I'm thinking of getting either the schiit magni 2 or just the fulla but I wanna know. Will I hear a lot of difference than if I didn't have an amp/dac at all. I don't care about specs I just wanna know if I will hear a significant difference that would make it worth 100 bucks
There is no way for anybody to know that. Probably not even if you were purposely directed towards an amplifier that will alter the sound. There are too many variables at play here - how loud you listen (which determines how much power the amp has to do and how much distortion and noise comes with it) and then there's the music you listen to (in terms of recording quality, frequency range and complexity as to whether they'll stress the equipment, like metal vs vocal jazz). You yourself are an unknown variable. For all we know you're tone deaf (I know people who can tune a guitar by ear but somehow can't tell the difference between an HD600 and an Apple earbud, despite how different their graphs are, but they can easily hear how much better they like Grados) or, on the flipside, highly susceptible to placebo.
O2 is the standard for least electronic noise produced by the amp itself (that doesn't mean it will remove noise generated by upstream hardware) but its distortion pattern makes the system sound brighter (ie it has a tendency to accentuate the treble more) than, say, the distortion pattern of a Violectric or Meier.
If you want a safe amp that has a higher output in case you'd need it later, save up and get the AudioGD NFB-11 (whichever version they're at right now), or save up even more for a Violectric with an optional DAC module.
A good DAC is important. But the difference between DAC's is negligible compared to the difference in amplification.
I just recently picked up a Schiit Magni 2, to see if there would be an improvement in my HD600 over my current set up (DAC: Fiio X3 vii or RME FF800. AMP: Samson QH4) - I was already VERY impressed with the true reproduction of the audio with the QH4 (and high power), but wanted to hear if some sort of magical unicorn would come riding in through my ears and transform what I was hearing into something better.
So, in replacing the QH4 (a relativity inexpensive headphone amp @$70) with the Magni 2, it was a revelation. Considering all the hype and praise of the Magni, I was stunned to hear a reduction in dynamics, bass, and soundstage (in that order). The one colorization that may be desired, in comparison, is that the Magni 2 will add a focus to the upper midrange. Not too mention, even in high gain mode, I still had to crank the Magni to about 1 o'clock to get things pumping. While on the QH4, I only have to put it at 10 o'clock on the Channel pot (at 3/4 master pot) to get the same volume, but a totally fuller, rounder, more dynamic and open sound. - The Magni 2 definitely has its own sound. I tried all my headphones. Ones with unruly bass, and not enough resolution in the upper mids and sibilant treble will benefit the most from the Magni 2.
When people complain about the HD600 sounding thin, no bass, soundstage....etc, you gotta consider the source/amp. With the Magni 2, the HD600's sound will be accentuated, negatively. I have 3 other amps/outputs to compare with/to. Non-transparent amps impart their own character. I don't think this is an advantage, as much as a disadvantage. If you have a faithful reproduction of the source, you can use DSP (EQ) to tailor the sound the way you want, while still getting the most out of your headphone. Clean juice is more important. However, considering the HD600's sound signature, I do imagine they would sound good with a tube amp.
I still believe that a good clean amp with a lot of power and headroom, is all you need. You can then hear headphones for how they truly are, and be able to weed out what you do & don't like. In that sense, the Samson QH4 is an unbelievable value, as it can power pretty much any headphone with transparency and dynamics. If you have a decent soundcard or DAP, get the QH4. You'll hear your HD600's come to life. I don't know about the Fulla, but unfortunately the Magni 2 is a no go with the HD600.
A good DAC is important. But the difference between DAC's is negligible compared to the difference in amplification.
I just recently picked up a Schiit Magni 2, to see if there would be an improvement in my HD600 over my current set up (DAC: Fiio X3 vii or RME FF800. AMP: Samson QH4) - I was already VERY impressed with the true reproduction of the audio with the QH4 (and high power), but wanted to hear if some sort of magical unicorn would come riding in through my ears and transform what I was hearing into something better.
So, in replacing the QH4 (a relativity inexpensive headphone amp @$70) with the Magni 2, it was a revelation. Considering all the hype and praise of the Magni, I was stunned to hear a reduction in dynamics, bass, and soundstage (in that order). The one colorization that may be desired, in comparison, is that the Magni 2 will add a focus to the upper midrange. Not too mention, even in high gain mode, I still had to crank the Magni to about 1 o'clock to get things pumping. While on the QH4, I only have to put it at 10 o'clock on the Channel pot (at 3/4 master pot) to get the same volume, but a totally fuller, rounder, more dynamic and open sound. - The Magni 2 definitely has its own sound. I tried all my headphones. Ones with unruly bass, and not enough resolution in the upper mids and sibilant treble will benefit the most from the Magni 2.
When people complain about the HD600 sounding thin, no bass, soundstage....etc, you gotta consider the source/amp. With the Magni 2, the HD600's sound will be accentuated, negatively. I have 3 other amps/outputs to compare with/to. Non-transparent amps impart their own character. I don't think this is an advantage, as much as a disadvantage. If you have a faithful reproduction of the source, you can use DSP (EQ) to tailor the sound the way you want, while still getting the most out of your headphone. Clean juice is more important. However, considering the HD600's sound signature, I do imagine they would sound good with a tube amp.
I still believe that a good clean amp with a lot of power and headroom, is all you need. You can then hear headphones for how they truly are, and be able to weed out what you do & don't like. In that sense, the Samson QH4 is an unbelievable value, as it can power pretty much any headphone with transparency and dynamics. If you have a decent soundcard or DAP, get the QH4. You'll hear your HD600's come to life. I don't know about the Fulla, but unfortunately the Magni 2 is a no go with the HD600.
There's also the possibility that the QH4 might be using higher gain than even the Magni's high gain as well as a high output impedance. Knob travel isn't really indicative as it can just be that the Magni's potentiometer really just has more travel, like for example the Meier Classic's 64-step volume control vs practically anything else (Meiers tend to allow for a lot of travel on the knob, and even the older amps have a low gain setting of -10dB to allow the use of very high sensitivity IEMs and headphones). If anything, maybe its output doesn't roll off that badly by 300ohms as much as the Magni which starts off with double the power at 32ohms.
Dynamics might not necessarily be actually "dynamics" the same way people think Grados are dynamic - you might be listening slightly louder on the QH4 (ie which is why when I do comparos I use a 1000hz tone and a dB meter, and with this protocol I can barely hear any difference between a lot of amps), on top of which, if the QH4 indeed has a high output impedance, the effect on high impedance headphones is a midrange boost. Same reason why some people prefer OTL tube amps for high impedance headphones (on top of high output at 250/300/600ohms for the same money as entry level solid state and hybrid amps that output more power at 32ohms).
Also, assuming Schiit is as honest as Samson about THD+N, the Magni outputs a lot less distortion with all its power, then the 1% THD+N of the QH4 (although all this comes on at full power, the same way Schiit claims a lower % "worst case," ie, max distortion) could be indicative of how the Schiit changes the response curve less when driving a load. And since it doesn't change anything, not even a boost to the midrange, that 3500hz peak on the HD600 doesn't get any boost below it to mask it.
Just to be clear though this isn't to say the QH4 is a bad amp (much less a bad one for the money, considering it's $70), but that the observations can actually be indicative of the Magni2 being technically better.
There's also the possibility that the QH4 might be using higher gain than even the Magni's high gain as well as a high output impedance. Knob travel isn't really indicative as it can just be that the Magni's potentiometer really just has more travel, like for example the Meier Classic's 64-step volume control vs practically anything else (Meiers tend to allow for a lot of travel on the knob, and even the older amps have a low gain setting of -10dB to allow the use of very high sensitivity IEMs and headphones). If anything, maybe its output doesn't roll off that badly by 300ohms as much as the Magni which starts off with double the power at 32ohms.
Dynamics might not necessarily be actually "dynamics" the same way people think Grados are dynamic - you might be listening slightly louder on the QH4 (ie which is why when I do comparos I use a 1000hz tone and a dB meter, and with this protocol I can barely hear any difference between a lot of amps), on top of which, if the QH4 indeed has a high output impedance, the effect on high impedance headphones is a midrange boost. Same reason why some people prefer OTL tube amps for high impedance headphones (on top of high output at 250/300/600ohms for the same money as entry level solid state and hybrid amps that output more power at 32ohms).
Also, assuming Schiit is as honest as Samson about THD+N, the Magni outputs a lot less distortion with all its power, then the 1% THD+N of the QH4 (although all this comes on at full power, the same way Schiit claims a lower % "worst case," ie, max distortion) could be indicative of how the Schiit changes the response curve less when driving a load. And since it doesn't change anything, not even a boost to the midrange, that 3500hz peak on the HD600 doesn't get any boost below it to mask it.
Just to be clear though this isn't to say the QH4 is a bad amp (much less a bad one for the money, considering it's $70), but that the observations can actually be indicative of the Magni2 being technically better.
Im just going by what I hear, using well known reference tracks. The audio is more compressed, less transparent, has a bass trim, and an upper mid push, on the Magni. I'm using my HS8 speakers as a base, with a recording I know inside and out (MJ's "Beat It" SE remaster), the QH4 is clean amplification. I dont know about the tech specs, but with same signal, I have way more headroom with the QH4 than the Magni, and I hear no added harmonic distortion (which seems to be the upper mid "focus" of the Magni). When I speak of dynamics, I'm literally talking about song/audio dynamics. The Magni definitley compresses the audio.
Im not saying the Magni is a "bad" amp, but it is definitley not neutral, and does exhibit the sonic characteristcs I described. It has a "cool", "tight" sound that may be considered to some as "bright". The QH4 is audio in, audio out. Nothing changes. Just clean, high power. That's what I thought the Magni would do, only better. I'm sure there are better amps out there that do what the QH4 does, but really, I don't know how much better they can do, when the signal reproduction is as good as it is on the QH4. Get one and test it for yourself. Its very impressive. Again, just speaking in terms of pure signal reproduction. Not with an attempt to color or change the signal (like a tube amp or whatever).
Im just going by what I hear, using well known reference tracks. The audio is more compressed, less transparent, has a bass trim, and an upper mid push, on the Magni. I'm using my HS8 speakers as a base, with a recording I know inside and out (MJ's "Beat It" SE remaster), the QH4 is clean amplification. I dont know about the tech specs, but with same signal, I have way more headroom with the QH4 than the Magni, and I hear no added harmonic distortion (which seems to be the upper mid "focus" of the Magni). When I speak of dynamics, I'm literally talking about song/audio dynamics. The Magni definitley compresses the audio.
Im not saying the Magni is a "bad" amp, but it is definitley not neutral, and does exhibit the sonic characteristcs I described. It has a "cool", "tight" sound that may be considered to some as "bright". The QH4 is audio in, audio out. Nothing changes. Just clean, high power. That's what I thought the Magni would do, only better. I'm sure there are better amps out there that do what the QH4 does, but really, I don't know how much better they can do, when the signal reproduction is as good as it is on the QH4. Get one and test it for yourself. Its very impressive. Again, just speaking in terms of pure signal reproduction. Not with an attempt to color or change the signal (like a tube amp or whatever).
One amp being slightly bright doesn't mean the other amp isn't just tilted to the other side, ie, the other amp can be warm. Also why I tend to prefer Meier and Violectric more than Schiit and the O2 (though from a technical aspect I'd get from this pool, plus AudioGD), but of course there are those who prefer tube amps that will make Norah Jones sound like she has to snort chicken soup.
I did not run a sine wave. I only matched the snare drum and vocal (center pan), and mono level. I judge the sound based on the output of my converters/audio interface, it's monitor out and speakers. The magni is exactly how I described. Either through my studio set up, or dap's (fiio, and couple of sony walkman's. Including a "vintage" 1997 CD player.)
I did not run a sine wave. I only matched the snare drum and vocal (center pan), and mono level. I judge the sound based on the output of my converters/audio interface, it's monitor out and speakers. The magni is exactly how I described. Either through my studio set up, or dap's (fiio, and couple of sony walkman's. Including a "vintage" 1997 CD player.)
It's not that I doubt what you hear out of the Magni on its own. What I'm saying is that the gap might not be that wide between those two if each system's output was nearly identical. Also that the reason why comparisons are critical is that I wouldn't be so sure the Magni is bright and the QH4 is neutral, because if someone was writing "Magni/O2 = neutral, QH4/Meier/Violectric = warm" I'd be asking how they're sure the Magni is the neutral one. The best qualitatively is to use a reference that many people are more like to have used and say which side of that another amp will be on, which is why I have access to an O2 I can borrow for example. Note the 3500hz peak on the HD600 so if the sound was neutral then chances are you should hear that peak.
Basically, I'm just saying that perhaps the best way to phrase the comparison is more along the lines of "Magni has harsher treble and upper midrange, QH4 is smoother by comparison." Note how I didn't name either neutral or "more/less neutral." It's not until we get to, say, an old Yamaha RX-V3xx receiver making Wharfedales sound like tin cans in a given room or a Little Dot MkII making Norah Jones through an HD600 sound like she has sinusitis does it get easy to know which one is bright or warm vs some standard closer to neutral (which in this case can be both the QH4 and Magni, as well as the O2, Asgard, G-Lite, NFB-11, etc).
I own apple devices (macbook air, iphone). Most of everything I do is on my little Macbook air. I find the sound output to be excellent and I've tried many little portable DAC/AMP combo units and find very little difference, if any at all. I actually often find the sound becomes WORSE than running direct into the apple device's headphone output. I find the apple devices to offer a nice smooth and non-fatiguing sound. Like, for example, when I tried an ODAC and O2, the treble became sharp, harsh, with a sheen on it that is not present on my headphone output on the apple device. I recently sold a little Fiio E10k which also did not really improve much of anything for me. I thought the Audeze Deckard was a good amp for my HE-500, it surely made an obvious improvement vs directly into the macbook, however, after getting rid of my HE-500, I didn't feel the improvement was strong enough when I could stick my other headphones right into my computer and get quite similar sound. I was mainly keeping the Deckard for the HE-500 and it became apparent that was costing me near $800 for the two, which being a sort of minimalist person, didn't seem worth it to keep the pairing.
Out of all the DAC/AMP devices I've had though, I liked the Deckard best but again, not enough to keep it. The difference with a dedicated amp/DAC system IMO is overall pretty minimal. Even with something like a HUGO vs an iphone, you are finding it very minimal and that is a very expensive device we are talking about... A great recording simply sounds great on a macbook, as long as your not using a super power hungry headphone like maybe HE-500. Even my Beyer T1 sounds excellent into my air.
I am very glad this honest thread exists, you honestly call it like it is. Frankly, I am very skeptical now of improvements with these devices (especially the portable ones). And there might even be some improvement but is it worth the price? Like if the Deckard was 100, I probably wouldn't have sold it but at 400, it is much less desirable. I'd rather budget that money towards something else.
Also, just bought a pair of speakers (vanatoo T1) for less money than the deckard. That is, a fricking high quality desktop speaker system for what a lot of these headphone amp/Dac units cost. I think that kind of puts into perspective that they are overpriced for what you get. The Vanatoo speakers have built in DAC and AMP into the speakers themselves. Well, i'd for one rather have a great speaker system setup on hand than the very minimal improvement in SQ provided by a separate HP amp/DAC.
They often design them to look very pretty and expensive though, which might explain some things...
Im just going by what I hear, using well known reference tracks. The audio is more compressed, less transparent, has a bass trim, and an upper mid push, on the Magni. I'm using my HS8 speakers as a base, with a recording I know inside and out (MJ's "Beat It" SE remaster), the QH4 is clean amplification. I dont know about the tech specs, but with same signal, I have way more headroom with the QH4 than the Magni, and I hear no added harmonic distortion (which seems to be the upper mid "focus" of the Magni). When I speak of dynamics, I'm literally talking about song/audio dynamics. The Magni definitley compresses the audio.
Im not saying the Magni is a "bad" amp, but it is definitley not neutral, and does exhibit the sonic characteristcs I described. It has a "cool", "tight" sound that may be considered to some as "bright". The QH4 is audio in, audio out. Nothing changes. Just clean, high power. That's what I thought the Magni would do, only better. I'm sure there are better amps out there that do what the QH4 does, but really, I don't know how much better they can do, when the signal reproduction is as good as it is on the QH4. Get one and test it for yourself. Its very impressive. Again, just speaking in terms of pure signal reproduction. Not with an attempt to color or change the signal (like a tube amp or whatever).
So from what you're saying I should go with the QH4's for my HD600s. Do you know what the Fulla 2 is like? I'd like to spend the least ammount of money I can to get the best results
So from what you're saying I should go with the QH4's for my HD600s. Do you know what the Fulla 2 is like? I'd like to spend the least ammount of money I can to get the best results
Just get the QH4 and be done with it. It will power every can under 300 ohms, easily, and it will not change the sound from your source. You can then use EQ, liberally. As you'll have a ton of clean headroom with the amp.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
