AKG K812 Pro
Mar 22, 2017 at 8:34 AM Post #4,126 of 4,825
   
I agree - I have an HD800 in my collection but I rarely listen to it.  I think many dismiss the K812 without ever hearing it - I've owned 100+ headphones and these are my favorites.


Read on computer audiophile. There it is classified by some as "lousy." Now, no headphone is perfect and measurement-wise, the K812 looks bad. But I do not care, I compared it to the HD800 ad T1.2 and I preferred it - even for classical. 
 
It is like considering lowther or fostex loudspeaker full-range drivers "lousy" because they have resonances and bad measurements: I leave it here.
 
 Roberto
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 10:58 AM Post #4,127 of 4,825
  I am so out of touch on all those new headphones. I was listening on my K701 and was wondering what's the new flagship for AKG.
Turns out it is K812.   Judging by popularity, it looks it lost the battle...:frowning2:.

 
AKG are stupid at marketing, Harman probably does not value AKG too much, and with the Samsung acquisition, they will focus on automotive applications, mostly, so it has lost by popularity and it will continue to lose by popularity.
 
It has horribly looking measurements, and a lot of people judge by measurements alone, even if just unconsciously, and then will "adapt" their perception to that.
 
The AKG does have a problematic bump with increased distortion at 2 to 5 Khz, centered between 3 and 4 Khz - not much worse than the 4-8 Khz bump of the HD 800 but the first one translates to some harsh high pitched sung vowels and a bit of confusion some complex textures in the high register.  The HD 800's bump is viewed in a more favourable way because these are crucial frequencies for imaging, and create the illusion of a larger soundstage. That's it.  These bumps are both bad.
 
The real problem with the AKG is then restricted to the bad ringing on impulses and bad looking square waves. This is true. Now, go and ask fans of fostex and lowther wideband transducers for loudspeakers if their speakers are lousy. Measurements are pure cr4p on those speakers, however they have also other great advantages that make the sound very, very attractive.
 
So, it is losing the marketing battle. By moving production to Slovakia they can now keep the quality but reduce the costs, and the K812 is now placed in a price range where it can compete despite the perception.
 
My question is: 
As  a die-hard K701/ER-4S/Stax-want-to-own kind of guy, should I try K812 ?

 
I think you should. A lot of people that wanted a Stax but could not afford it found they could be happy with the K812.
 
Try the HD800 anyway. They are incredibile detailed and musical with a more laid back presentation. I ended up preferring the more "rocky" character of the K812 (and greater flexibility) but I am the type of classical music lover that prefers aggressive or highly emotional classical music, definitely not the "I listen to classica because it i soothing" type of guy.
 
 Roberto
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 11:39 PM Post #4,130 of 4,825
   
The K812 problems with the flat cable losing contact were only at the beginning, and actually with models manufactured in Austria, not Slovakia.
 
 Roberto


Agree
 
Mar 22, 2017 at 11:46 PM Post #4,131 of 4,825
   
Really? Guess what, I picked the K812 over the HD800 listening mostly to classical. Tastes are really different.
 
 Roberto


I say for slow paced classics (specially eastern music) HD800 tad batter with good sound stage and clarity. Also classical music does not have problems with treble peaks so HD800 is good. For me for female vocals and gitar strings K812 is better. Also it is more fun headphone and more forgiving for any listening on Chord Mojo.
 
Even with Volternic V281 that can deliver massive 2W @600ohms and 40+Volts at the same level HD800 sometimes not sounding very pleasant. 
 
On Musicality non can hardly match Hifiman HE1000
 
Mar 23, 2017 at 2:15 PM Post #4,133 of 4,825
   
I would hope so, it costs 3 times as much...
 
 Roberto


At certain point price means very little or nothing. It's just what the manufacturer ask you to give you the thing but not a measure of performance or cost to build.
HE1000 costs 3 times as much but it's in the same playground sonically. Personal preferences are key. If you happen to enjoy HD800 wide stage more than HE1000 musicality then your kind of lucky. Some people prefer HE-6 over HE1000 and it costed 1000uds or so and was a top flight planar magnetic headphone as well.
 
Mar 23, 2017 at 10:59 PM Post #4,134 of 4,825
 
At certain point price means very little or nothing. It's just what the manufacturer ask you to give you the thing but not a measure of performance or cost to build.
HE1000 costs 3 times as much but it's in the same playground sonically. Personal preferences are key. If you happen to enjoy HD800 wide stage more than HE1000 musicality then your kind of lucky. Some people prefer HE-6 over HE1000 and it costed 1000uds or so and was a top flight planar magnetic headphone as well.


Price is a bummer. I had HE6 (heavily modded including direct cabling) for few days and I liked it most before I heard HE1000. They are very good but little uncomfortable. 
 
Hifiman is not the one to blame for pricing. It is Audeze mainly who started pricing their oversize gear at stupidly high prices for non limited editions. Knowing most people think price reflect performance Hifiman came up with stupid pricing for HE1000 also. No no going back for anyone.
 
Fact of the matter is people go overboard with hifi gear with less critical analysis in reviews. For me HE1000+Vio V281+V850 + cables+ streamers etc that cost over US$7k sound say 15-20%  better than same song played via my Lenovo T520 sound port without any external DAC/Amp and with humble Philips X2 which is about US$300. But people who review each component including cables claim night and day differences. I have seen one person who is having LCD4+ Chord Dave included the comment "out off all I love $15 headphones from ebay"
 in his signature. So something is wrong.
 
Mar 24, 2017 at 1:21 AM Post #4,135 of 4,825
 
Price is a bummer. I had HE6 (heavily modded including direct cabling) for few days and I liked it most before I heard HE1000. They are very good but little uncomfortable. 
 
Hifiman is not the one to blame for pricing. It is Audeze mainly who started pricing their oversize gear at stupidly high prices for non limited editions. Knowing most people think price reflect performance Hifiman came up with stupid pricing for HE1000 also. No no going back for anyone.
 
Fact of the matter is people go overboard with hifi gear with less critical analysis in reviews. For me HE1000+Vio V281+V850 + cables+ streamers etc that cost over US$7k sound say 15-20%  better than same song played via my Lenovo T520 sound port without any external DAC/Amp and with humble Philips X2 which is about US$300. But people who review each component including cables claim night and day differences. I have seen one person who is having LCD4+ Chord Dave included the comment "out off all I love $15 headphones from ebay"
 in his signature. So something is wrong.


Well, yeah...
 
In my view headphones beyond DT880/K702/HD650 normally offer very little improvement to the overall "high fidelity headphone experience"
That's why I've kept those former "flagships" despite owning some of the newer and much pricier ones. One thing is technical performance and/or rational critical listening where you listen to find out which one has a blacker background or more precise imaging, the other thing is enjoying the music, forgetting you're wearing headphones. With regards to the first one, yes, it's not hard to tell HD800 is a tad more capable than DT880 here and there, but when it comes to enjoying the music both are quite close and which one is better is normally recording dependent. DT880 has just a hint more bass and just a hint less of a 6kHz peak so it does rock better most of the times to my ears (read, more enjoyable). It's also sturdier and more compact so it's better for certain circumstances.
 
I think headphones over 500usd are luxury/exclusive products.
Like watches, you don't pay a Zenith watch for being much better than a Hamilton watch. Both look good, both last many years, both tell the time and both have cool engineering inside.
If you have the money and want a Zenith then you'll have to pay 5 times the price of a Hamilton, if you can't find something better to do with the money, then why not? It's like going on holidays, that's much pricier and only lasts a few days.
 
Enjoyment is really a personal thing. Sometimes the enjoyment arise from very unintuitive things.
Some people enjoy listening to music with 6k headphones just for the sake of being 6k headphones. It's definitely a complex matter.
 
I don't support these days pricing, don't get me wrong. But I think manufacturers are free to ask whatever they want for the products they make.
In the same way customers are free to buy or not.
 
One last thing to note is that 100usd for someone is 10.000usd for someone else. That plays a big role as well.
 
Mar 25, 2017 at 12:36 PM Post #4,136 of 4,825
  At certain point price means very little or nothing. It's just what the manufacturer ask you to give you the thing but not a measure of performance or cost to build.
HE1000 costs 3 times as much but it's in the same playground sonically. Personal preferences are key. If you happen to enjoy HD800 wide stage more than HE1000 musicality then your kind of lucky. Some people prefer HE-6 over HE1000 and it costed 1000uds or so and was a top flight planar magnetic headphone as well.


This is indeed true, a lot of factors come into play - manufacturers may want to reduce the margins to get more devices out and rely on word of mouth, or they may artificially inflate the price in order to create a particular aura - also if they have an established tradition they can raise the prices.
 
This said, I still hope that a 3000$ products sounds better than a 1000$ one, because I am naive (or an optimist) :)
 
 Roberto
 
Mar 26, 2017 at 5:08 AM Post #4,137 of 4,825
This is indeed true, a lot of factors come into play - manufacturers may want to reduce the margins to get more devices out and rely on word of mouth, or they may artificially inflate the price in order to create a particular aura - also if they have an established tradition they can raise the prices.

This said, I still hope that a 3000$ products sounds better than a 1000$ one, because I am naive (or an optimist) :)

 Roberto

Just to let anyone thinking of buying the K812 but understandably deterred by the price, amazon.co.uk has them on today at £483, quite a reduction. The price of these headphones fluctuates wildly from day to day, but this is the lowest price I have seen
 
Mar 26, 2017 at 5:14 AM Post #4,138 of 4,825
Just to let anyone thinking of buying the K812 but understandably deterred by the price, amazon.co.uk has them on today at £483, quite a reduction. The price of these headphones fluctuates wildly from day to day, but this is the lowest price I have seen


Hi Roberto,
 
I saw the price in the UK amazon, but I don't think that is the real price. It is not sold by amazon directly and the seller said you should contact them before buying. Besides, the amazon price (amazon prime) is £694, which is also great deal. 
 
Richard
 
Mar 26, 2017 at 5:21 AM Post #4,139 of 4,825
Hi Roberto,

I saw the price in the UK amazon, but I don't think that is the real price. It is not sold by amazon directly and the seller said you should contact them before buying. Besides, the amazon price (amazon prime) is £694, which is also great deal. 

Richard

Thanks for pointing that out. I just saw the price but didn't investigate any further because I am not interested in buying them, as I have already reached my endgame with the K612 at a fraction of the cost
 
Mar 26, 2017 at 5:26 AM Post #4,140 of 4,825
Thanks for pointing that out. I just saw the price but didn't investigate any further because I am not interested in buying them, as I have already reached my endgame with the K612 at a fraction of the cost


Understandable. I bought K812 at the UK amazon, so I also had noticed some extremely low prices before I bought it. Actually, the seller won't reply any emails, thus I got it directly from amazon with a good price (£705 around).
 

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