[glitch39]

for the record, I am not complaining..

BEACHAUDIO $590

B&H $595

 

[glitch39]

BeachAudio accepts PP also, so it would be a good protection if there are QC or delivery issues.

Why pay extra for a new Markl D5000 when you can get a stock D7000 for less?

 

[subtle]

I don't know if I would order from Beach Audio until confirming with Denon that they are an authorized dealer. Perhaps it's just the way I'm reading it, but it looks like it comes with a "Beach Audio Warranty".

I'd rather order from J&R or BH knowing they are authorized dealers, but of course they're both out of stock and/or special order only. They also both do not offer a return policy should they not be your thing.

 

[spacemanspliff]

Not to mention the D5000 stock price hasn't moved? Weird.

 

[priest]

Because the fancy-pants box and embossed shammy only cost Denon about $10, and hardly anybody was biting at a grand?

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by priest /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because the fancy-pants box and embossed shammy only cost Denon about $10, and hardly anybody was biting at a grand?

X2

most other 'phones at a grand (to be blunt) smoke the D7000, at least in the eyes of many reviewers/etc, when you consider that the D5000 is (again to be blunt) the same headphone without a fancy box or embossed shammy (oh and you have a screw-on adapter for 1/4"), and no nail polish to keep the gold lettering on

consider the GS-1000 vs RS-2 relationship (which is the same price differential Denon wanted for the D7000 vs D5000), think about how differently those two are regarded, you rarely hear anyone say its the same thing, sans packaging, while the D5000/D7000 is basically the same 'phone (there are minor differences, but we're talking +$200 minor, not +200% minor)

 

[ferraro25]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif most other 'phones at a grand (to be blunt) smoke the D7000, at least in the eyes of many reviewers/etc, when you consider that the D5000 is (again to be blunt) the same headphone without a fancy box or embossed shammy (oh and you have a screw-on adapter for 1/4"), and no nail polish to keep the gold lettering on consider the GS-1000 vs RS-2 relationship (which is the same price differential Denon wanted for the D7000 vs D5000), think about how differently those two are regarded, you rarely hear anyone say its the same thing, sans packaging, while the D5000/D7000 is basically the same 'phone (there are minor differences, but we're talking +$200 minor, not +200% minor)

Where are you getting this information? Mind to link several posts saying this besides just markl (and people parroting him)?

 

[myk7000]

i really hope what ur saying is true because then it makes me feel good about owning my d2000s which are 92% of the d7000?

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferraro25 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where are you getting this information? Mind to link several posts saying this besides just markl (and people parroting him)?

personal audition?
and you don't want to know my opinion of markl

find the older D2000 vs D5000 threads back in the day around the release, most were arguing that the sound is similar enough (and then the whole "oh you need 200 hours to have an opinion" which because 300 and then 400 hours, myth crap, started)

they all use the same driver, have the same enclosure geometry, use the same quality of cable and jack, and same earpads

the only difference is price, earcups, and the termination of the D7000 cable (oh yeah, and the packaging of the D7000)

the earcup differences are between magnesium/plastic/whatever on the D2000 to the wood of the D5000 to the wood of the D7000 (which is more or less the D5000 earcup, with a bit better finishing and its been sealed)

now these differences ARE enough to make some changes happen between the 'phones, like I said they are different, but the price gaps are just too extreme, Denon is selling luxury and flash over diminishing returns of audio quality

the D7000 lists for around $1000 US, and offers minor cosmetic and functional (for example having a 1/4" termination) improvements over the D5000 which lists for around $600 US, the D5000 currently sells for around $450-$500 new, and the D7000 for around $600

that price delta is roughly fair imho (around $100), as the minor tweaks the D7000 offers are benefits (for example they did a better job finishing those cups, so you can't rub the lettering off in a week, and the 1/4 termination is what I'd expect on either 'phone at that price, the packaging is neither here nor there, because like priest said, its about $10 of gimmicks)

but if you look at that, how the D7000 is packaged and marketed, they're selling it more on the "look how luxuriously this is boxed, how nice the box looks, how good these look, how awesome this wood looks" not "there are massive sonic improvements and refinements over the D5000", that isn't to say they aren't better or worse 'phones, but the point I'm making is that the 7000 is more of a cashgrab on Denon's part, not an engineering rework

lets not get into the "these are better than these" or "these are the best headphone" discussions (or the "these are 90% as good as these"), because its all personal preference among the line, the only point I'm really trying to make is that the D7000 is massively overpriced, and bringing the price to $600 is fair

like priest said, nobody was biting at a grand, especially when they've got the majority of the build quality issues the D2000 and D5000 have (i.e: a five year old can still rip them apart the seams with no effort), and the primary selling point from Denon's end is the fancy box, they aren't even trying to say they're "massively better sound quality"

for source information on all of this, you can actually get Denon to more or less divulge is the same equipment:
http://www.usa.denon.com/AH-D7000_Lit0805.pdf D7000 literature
http://www.usa.denon.com/AH-5000_2000_1000-Lit.pdf D5000/2000 literature

now lets look at the 5000/2000 first:
specs are IDENTICAL, excepting those earcups, which means the only way you've got a sound signature change is those earcups, otherwise its the exact same headphone

now look at the 7000 sheet, specs are 110% identical to the D5000 specs, and hidden down there at the bottom, while you've got "luxurious box included" and other marketing vibes all over the thing

and you wanna tell me theres some massive sonic change or improvement between the two, when the marketing litearture even reads identical for the three of them? normally when a vendor makes a product more expensive, its either because its a luxury model (i.e: you get the Escalade over the Yukon, so you get better leather, premium sound, etc) or because it offers better features (i.e: you get the Hummer H2 over the Yukon, because it offers better 4x4 performance (the beauty of this example is all three of these vehicles run the same platform and engine, and one of them won't be in production by July))

to make it technical, lets look at headroom's measurements:

we're talking VERY slight changes between the three of them, its very obviously the same driver and housing geometry, with only the enclosure changing (these are about the changes I'd expect to see from changing housings of speakers slightly)

here's just an example of two different headphones being compared:

and another:

notice how you'll see much larger changes? instead of the lines being more or less on top of each other

 

[SBD]

If there are only ever so slight improvements between each model, that must mean the differences between d2000 and d7000 are minimal. I've had the d2000 and from what I read about the d7000 there's just no way they can sound that close.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBD /img/forum/go_quote.gif x2 And if there are only ever so slight improvements between each model, that must mean the differences between d2000 and d7000 are minimal. I've had the d2000 and from what I read about the d7000 there's just no way they can sound that close.

maybe read my post?

and what are you saying "theres just no way they can sound that close"?

its a change of enclosure, and nothing else, the debate over the impact of this is massive, and it really depends on how a specific driver handles it

two examples

Headphile at a time, or perhaps still to this day, offers a service to close the Sennheiser HD 580/600/650 with wood (it looks beautiful, like all headphile work), and many users complain that it makes them sound muddy and overbassy, to simulate this effect, if you own these phones, cover the backs of them up while you're listening (hold your hands up, or a book, or something similar)

that massively alters the geometry of the enclosure, by changing how air can move around the driver, and it impacts the sound quite a bit (I believe there was a thread actually in favor of closing them with the super deeps though, I don't remember)

second example is headphile, and a number of other members on their own, have custom woodied their SR-125's or SR-225's by simply replacing the plastic housing with a wooden one, they do note an improvement in sound quality, however it isn't usually "this is an entirely different headphone" its more along the lines of "this is better to my ears"

the point is you cannot turn one driver into another, you can change its enclosure's material and geometry which will impact the sound, however it won't change the abilities of the driver, for example in the case of the D2000/5000/7000, that driver is going to be ass heavy, mid/bass prominent, somewhat lacking on the top end, and easy to drive, no matter what you do (well you could actually close it in so tight that you blow it apart, but thats a bit extreme, we're talking rational geometries)

this is why the D2000/5000/7000 are very similar 'phones, because its the same driver, AND the same geometry, all they've changed is the enclosure material

they don't contest this or argue some massive engineering alteration

now based on this slight change, you will get some sonic changes, but it won't be "entirely different", and they will share sonic signature similarities

 

[Bojamijams]

Well the cable is better on the D5000 vs D2000 as well.

7N-OFC on D5k vs regular OFC on D2k

(what that means though, I won't pretend to know)

 

[Uncle Erik]

A word of support for Beach - I bought my Nikon and a couple other things from them. No nonsense, everything arrived when it should have and no complaints. I would buy from Beach again.

As for the price drops, I think that the market is getting softer by the day and they're trying to move product. They probably built too many of them, as well, and are trying to clear inventory. Luxury sales are off and will be going further off - I'm holding out for awhile before I make any more audio purchases. I think the best deals are yet to come.

 

[Max Minimum]

They've probably got to run away from the HD800's sector, too.

 

[Fido2]

Good point Uncle E. I'm hoping this will be the case with the HD800...wink wink