[Hirsch]

Vertigo-1,

Read your Sig

I listen to the Supra/HP-1 because it makes music. If it didn't, I have alternatives. I've got better things to do than listen to setups I don't like.

I didn't get the HP-1 for collectability or bragging rights. I got it because I've known some of Joe Grado's work for years, and he's rarely disappointed me where it counts: the sound. The HP-1 turned out even better than I had hoped (and actually is less sonically impaired by the bowl pads than the RS-1)

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by shivohum There are many people who prefer the RS-1s to the HP-1s, (though for some it's qualified by taking musical genre into account). For example: "A Great Set A' Cans" Alexander Derevin Renaud Dreyer Gradoistcool Gordie (I didn't plan the upside-down pyramid effect, but there it is!) This guy thinks the SR-60s rival and might in fact beat the HP-1: "A Musician Compares Headphones to the Real Thing"

you seem to have forgotten my little clause in there: when properly amped

i checked the profiles for those headwizers and they were all using the ra-1 as amplification (though one guy has a creek

). plus reviews from gradolabs.com? gee, they can't be biased at all!

john grado told me that before he stopped making the hp-1000 he made prototypes of the rs-1 and brought them to audio shows all over the world and asked hundreds of people (editors of magazines, writers, reviewers, etc.) to audition them and see which ones they liked better. he told me that only one person of all the people he asked actually said he liked the hp-1000 better than the rs-1, and the guy's partner yelled "are you nuts?!" at him as he stated this.

this is his reasoning for not having the hp-1000 around anymore. like it or not, my theory is that they were using the hpa-1 or the ra-1 as amplification and the idea of it sickens me. i can guaran****ingtee that if these reviewers had heard the hp-1000 on a melos, or an rkv, or a sugden headmaster, their opinions would've been a lot different and we still might have these great headphones today.

vert: the idea of stax being around for the same price is very true and very underrated on these boards. i think after the broken stax setups on the woh tour, people just lost interest. also the rumors of "no bass" and "bright" floating around don't help it much either. i imagine for around $1400 a stax 717 and 404 combination can be purchased and that's got to be one hell of a setup.

sometime i plan on getting stax, i'm just trying to work my way up there slowly and i hope more of head-fi is as well.

 

[Zanth]

Truth be told Vert...many don't dig the sound of Stax...even outside of the WOH tour. Many like dynamics more. I look at Vka and Jatinder and Nik. All of them have heard or own(ed) the Orpheus and Stax and seemingly...for Jatinder and Nik...the R10's are the heart of music for headphones. I know I have read a few comments where Jatinder has stated the R10's do somethings the Orpheus can't...and vice versa. Nik, who has arguably the most insane system on the planet....is head over heals in love with the R10's...and finally more to the point...Vka...the HP-1000 man himself, loves the HP-1/DCT-1 combo. There are other as well, Cory Greenburg of Stereophile fame....likes the RS-1's more than HP-1's...more than Stax. It's easy as that. Although you, kelly, zzz, mike, kevin will all say Stax are superior, there are others who will oppose that.

Some actually do stop at HP-1's. (I can't say I am one of them without actually having heard Stax, but I do like HP-1's more than R10's)


As Hirsch has said, HP-1's are more resilient to the horrible desacration that are the bowl pads. Of course, with the Senn pads readily available and now made available fully dyed and modded to replicate as closely as possible the flat pad sound (thanks vwap! check out mall-fi for his product) one can really enjoy all that Grado has to offer.

HP-1000's should come back into style but Grinch has it summed up. John built them all. Joe designed them. Joe nearly lost the company. John took over, and with HIS ear, HIS designs, turned the company around. Many feel the RS-1's surpass the HP-1's. Yes it could well be system matching, but so what? We are 5000 here....fewer still who WANT HP-1000's. The world is a large place and within an already small niche...headphone lovers are smaller, and Grado lovers are smaller still, with HP-1000 must havers...being again even smaller.

Sorry folks, the R&D...and/or equipment purchase necessary to bring them back into production likely is not worth it to him. This is beyond the fact that he and his "ears" have created an arguably better product.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I would much rather see a new grado headphone that reduces the flaws of the rs-1's while keeping their energy. I've heard the hp-1000's using melos/gilmore etc. and they just don't do it like stax do it.

Biggie.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ I've heard the hp-1000's using melos/gilmore etc. and they just don't do it like stax do it.

I agree completely.

The real question is defining "it". Only then can each person find the particular setup that does "it" for him. "It" is not going to be the same for each person. Never has been. Never will be. For some people, not doing "it" like Stax do "it" is not necessarily bad.

 

[Zanth]

I agree Hirsch. The "IT" is subjective and what floats each of our boats. For some HD600's are the perfect phone...some Sony R10's, others..HP-1's and others Stax.

It is easy to argue objective traits of each (saying for example..that Stax Omega II's can resolve better than HP-1's). It is a fact. But which sound better? That's subjective. ..and will never be won in any debate - ever.

 

[dave-the-rave]

I'd buy a pair.

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

i checked the profiles for those headwizers and they were all using the ra-1 as amplification (though one guy has a creek ). plus reviews from gradolabs.com? gee, they can't be biased at all! ... i can guaran****ingtee that if these reviewers had heard the hp-1000 on a melos, or an rkv, or a sugden headmaster, their opinions would've been a lot different

Well first off Corey Greenberg *has* heard the SHA-1/HP-1 (actually HP-2) combo and really liked it. But evidently these experiences didn't stop him from later thinking the RS-1 to be a "much, much better sounding pair of headphones."

And how about Zanth, who says "The RS-1/RA-1 combo in many ways...out performs my Melos/HP-1 combo."

Plus, you're ignoring the people who weren't using RA-1/HPA-1s.

Corey Greenberg used a McCormack headphone drive in the review I cited. Is that junk too?

Alexander Derevin undoubtedly has access to the best Meier-Audio amps, and I don't think they change his mind.

And though two of the reviews I put up were links to gradolabs, they were just reprints from other magazines, namely Stereophile and The Absolute Sound. Of course Grado Labs only picked favorable reviews to put on its site, but that doesn't make those reviews biased.

 

[Duncan]

So why doesn't someone take a pair of HP1000s to the Grado meet... and see if Joes face lights up, or contorts when he has a listen...

...That'll answer it once and for all...

 

[Jap]

[size=small]I agree with Shivohum in that some people just have their own personal druthers sonically.

For my own self, I much prefer to hear the most uncolored, transparent, get out of my face so I can hear the music phones. From all the research I've conducted on this forum and elsewhere, the Joe Grado HP-1/2's are, without question, those very phones, at least for the dynamic genre. I am in the process of monitoring Audiogon, eBay and this forum's Sell/Trade section for prestige Joe Grado-ware.

I own Grado SR-80's; so I know a little something of the famous (or infamous?) Grado sound. Although such coloration has its special place for some of my moods, the great majority of the time I would greatly prefer phones and other sonic equipment that can "remove" themselves from the signal path and allow me to hear the recording producer's work. I'm sure it's pretty obvious how I voted! The heck with collectibility!

Duncan has a good point: give John the Joe Grado test with his uncle's phones, a super clean recording(s) and an uncolored amp (Antness Filmore?) and see if his socks aren't blown off by the result!

[/size]

 

[MERTON]

perhaps he should just redisign the pads... and maybe make a new series... one in the stax oprheus price range... maybe we just haven't seen what he can do given no limit's. but i would at least like to see the old pads come back (from what i've heard about them)... he could at least do that i think.

 

[KR...]

The HP-1000's will be there is full force, but last time I was told that he didn't listen to anything at all.

 

[MERTON]

maybe someone should just tell him to make new pads.. ones that have all the advatages of both types.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by shivohum This guy thinks the SR-60s rival and might in fact beat the HP-1: "A Musician Compares Headphones to the Real Thing"

Something to keep in mind with this review. If his HP-1's were too tight and clamped on his head, he would have got no high end at all, which he does mention was the case (in that complete original headphone review). Obviously the headband was adjusted when the wiring was upgraded (as he mentions) and the high end was there when he tried them after the upgrade.

And another thing, those SR60's had the original smaller flat donut pads, not the current ones. So I am puzzled as to why this reviews are currently in the Grado site. One pair is obsolete and the other has changed spec.

 

[MERTON]

i think he's just too cheap to get someone to update the site.. i mean sheesh... the 325's are still black on it... why? and why can't you buy directly from grado labs?