[derycksan]

I tend to preferred moderately colored headphones.  A little extra bass and treble help balance out my ears sensitivity to midrange resulting in a neutral, rich sound to me.  When I listen to "neutral" headphones, highs and lows always sound rolled off.  Maybe its biology (human ears are more sensitive to 3,500hz than 80) or maybe its just my imagination.

 

[RexAeterna]

what other headphones have you heard? thats incredibly strange that you say that about the T1 as there are a bunch of phones that are way brighter then it.
 
what i meant was the outer part of the ear (as in the visible ear that sticks out of your noggin ) attentuates and amplifies certain frequencies, the reason headphones roll off steeply at the high frequencies and dip slightly in the mids is because being so close to the ear the sound is not attentuated by the outer parts of the ear, a headphone with a flat frequency response would be incredibly bright. it would be like sticking toothpicks into your ears. i meant if headroom posted the perceived response of headphones, and it was rolled off like that, they would have no highs if they were true to the graph. therefore, i was pointing out that headroom apparently does not post graphs of the perceived response. the only company i know of that does this is etymotic. i am kinda being confusing here, but what i mean is yes, you perceive the same response as shown in the graph, but if you were listening to flat speakers, where the ears could have their EQing effect, that is the response you would perceive and that is what we hear as "flat". 
 


 

i noticed this for sometime now with my experience with headphones but a natural sounding headphone that is flat will not always sound bright with everything. just certain genres of music or recordings but yes your right about why most headphones always has a roll off in the high frequency due to human hearing.


i notice lot of recordings nowadays like to spike the treble as much as the bass to compansate for trying to make it sound not overpowering while increasing parts of the upper midrange causing a lot sibilance as well which can be very annoying. lot of studio headphones back in the day around the 70's and early 80's had a completely flat response just about but that was cause during that time the standardized RIAA equalization took care of that and lot of older recording never really touched the treble button/knob. that's why when talking about speakers you always have people mentioning ''vintage highs'' or ''moderate highs''. also how some people re-do the crossovers in certain vintage speakers to give it more modern high response cause moderate highs contain the earlier roll off in the upper range across the frequency graph compared to vintage speakers which stay flat completely to 20khz.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

Quote:

what other headphones have you heard? thats incredibly strange that you say that about the T1 as there are a bunch of phones that are way brighter then it.
 
what i meant was the outer part of the ear (as in the visible ear that sticks out of your noggin ) attentuates and amplifies certain frequencies, the reason headphones roll off steeply at the high frequencies and dip slightly in the mids is because being so close to the ear the sound is not attentuated by the outer parts of the ear, a headphone with a flat frequency response would be incredibly bright. it would be like sticking toothpicks into your ears. i meant if headroom posted the perceived response of headphones, and it was rolled off like that, they would have no highs if they were true to the graph. therefore, i was pointing out that headroom apparently does not post graphs of the perceived response. the only company i know of that does this is etymotic. i am kinda being confusing here, but what i mean is yes, you perceive the same response as shown in the graph, but if you were listening to flat speakers, where the ears could have their EQing effect, that is the response you would perceive and that is what we hear as "flat". 
 


 

i noticed this for sometime now with my experience with headphones but a natural sounding headphone that is flat will not always sound bright with everything. just certain genres of music or recordings but yes your right about why most headphones always has a roll off in the high frequency due to human hearing.


i notice lot of recordings nowadays like to spike the treble as much as the bass to compansate for trying to make it sound not overpowering while increasing parts of the upper midrange causing a lot sibilance as well which can be very annoying. lot of studio headphones back in the day around the 70's and early 80's had a completely flat response just about but that was cause during that time the standardized RIAA equalization took care of that and lot of older recording never really touched the treble button/knob. that's why when talking about speakers you always have people mentioning ''vintage highs'' or ''moderate highs''. also how some people re-do the crossovers in certain vintage speakers to give it more modern high response cause moderate highs contain the earlier roll off in the upper range across the frequency graph compared to vintage speakers which stay flat completely to 20khz.


 

I like your sig RexAeterna. I think I'm becoming more and more that as well, even though I already was to begin with before I got into high end audio

 

[nick n]

I started out with AKG 240 ( older version ) Monitors, so I suppose my first mind blowing experience coming from nothing before of any good besides NE-7m IEM's , has biased me towards neutral.  I figure that the music should sound the way it was recorded, and it also allows me to modify it from that baseline on the amps any way I want for however long until i get tired of that, then at least I can go back to neutral easily.  I do enjoy hearing all sorts of different ones though, and wouldn't dismiss ever picking up a colored set. That's my idea on it, unless I am missing something glaringly obvious in my logic.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

I started out with AKG 240 ( older version ) Monitors, so I suppose my first mind blowing experience coming from nothing before of any good besides NE-7m IEM's , has biased me towards neutral.  I figure that the music should sound the way it was recorded, and it also allows me to modify it from that baseline on the amps any way I want for however long until i get tired of that, then at least I can go back to neutral easily.  I do enjoy hearing all sorts of different ones though, and wouldn't dismiss ever picking up a colored set. That's my idea on it, unless I am missing something glaringly obvious in my logic.

I actually just realized something. While I don't listen to it, dubstep, rap, techno etc is supposed to have booming bass. How does that work with neutral headphones? It doesn't sound like how the artist intended then, does it?
 

 

[Sylverant]

Quote:

I actually just realized something. While I don't listen to it, dubstep, rap, techno etc is supposed to have booming bass. How does that work with neutral headphones? It doesn't sound like how the artist intended then, does it?
 

I don't really understand this argument at all, from experience a neutral presentation should extend evenly deep, and if a headphone responds to eq cleanly it should be able to play any genre well. I know this well, my K271 are like this, they become very powerful when midbass is added due to how low their bass already goes. If we aren't talking about how linear the frequency response is then we should really be refering to the presentation of texture here as that is what truly diferentiates one heeadphone sound sig from another, and also can't really be changed that much.
 
No source save for a tube amp is going to recess the forward details on my K271. I haven't heard the HD650 but going from the reviews I've read they may have very balanced extension, but their texture is dark, not neutral.  aK271 If we aren't talking a You  I he 
 
I also have HD560's so I guess I'd be neutral, but I love my S4's big bass and edgy treble so I don't really know. I prefer K271 SS first so I guess thats my answer XD

 
 

 

[RexAeterna]

I actually just realized something. While I don't listen to it, dubstep, rap, techno etc is supposed to have booming bass. How does that work with neutral headphones? It doesn't sound like how the artist intended then, does it?
 

natural headphones can extend low as intended but to human hearing limitation, lower the frequencies get, the quieter it becomes making us believe the headphone is rolling off(or bass light) but it's really our hearing that is. that's way if your basshead i always recommend speakers over headphones if one can or go for a headphone that has emphisize on frequencies lower then 50hz like the sony xb700's if bass is there main concern. lower then 50hz is meant for us to ''feel'' than heard. thing is also if your amp has you can always compansate the need for our hearing sensitivity of low frequencies with something known as the ''loudness'' button and tone controls. loudness boosts all low and high frequencies at below normal listening level but can be used something like a bass boost button people like to call it cause it boost all low frequencies and highs around 10db. or you can use an equalizer with your amp and headphones to compansate for human hearing. if the headphone or speaker frequency response is flat and well design it should handle eq'ing flawlessly. just saying.

 

[RexAeterna]

I like your sig RexAeterna. I think I'm becoming more and more that as well, even though I already was to begin with before I got into high end audio

thanks. i always loved my music and always will. music is meant to be enjoyed and that's what i do most of the time. i do nit pick here and there when i hear something that don't sound right to my ears but it won't stop me from enjoying what i'm listening to.

 

[Alghazanth]

Well, even though I don't listen to rap I did try a few tracks in comparison between the D2000 and T1. With the D2000 it had that stereotypical thumping bass that could make the beat really catchy... with the T1 they're more like very quick punches... not very satisfying . I really don't think neutrality works for anything fast and energetic, but that's just me.
 
As for EQing bass, there is a very large difference between the natural bass of my Denon and a T1 with EQ'd bass at any level. To put it bluntly, it does not sound good with the T1. Not surprising, I believe if a headphone lacks a characteristic from the get-go, EQing cannot compensate fully and just ends up smearing other frequencies. Perhaps there is a different way to EQ?
 
I'm not a basshead, I can very easily tell excessive bass from "just right", but Metal has subgenres where bass is of great importance, and the T1 is lacking in bass quantity for this. It does the punchy, tight bass perfectly, but there's just not quite enough to transform it. It's very evident if you try Groove Metal or Djent.

 

[Dhimay]

I'm not a fan of neutered neutral sound, however, natural reproduction of sound, yes.

 
 
 
 

 

[brasewel]

Quote:

Well, even though I don't listen to rap I did try a few tracks in comparison between the D2000 and T1. With the D2000 it had that stereotypical thumping bass that could make the beat really catchy... with the T1 they're more like very quick punches... not very satisfying . I really don't think neutrality works for anything fast and energetic, but that's just me.
 
As for EQing bass, there is a very large difference between the natural bass of my Denon and a T1 with EQ'd bass at any level. To put it bluntly, it does not sound good with the T1. Not surprising, I believe if a headphone lacks a characteristic from the get-go, EQing cannot compensate fully and just ends up smearing other frequencies. Perhaps there is a different way to EQ?
 
I'm not a basshead, I can very easily tell excessive bass from "just right", but Metal has subgenres where bass is of great importance, and the T1 is lacking in bass quantity for this. It does the punchy, tight bass perfectly, but there's just not quite enough to transform it. It's very evident if you try Groove Metal or Djent.

The T1 is not really designed for metal 

. They sound really good on vocals, classical, jazz, fusion etc. I hate having to use an EQ if my headphones can't reproduce the sound that I want. 
 

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

I'm not a fan of neutered neutral sound, however, natural reproduction of sound, yes.

 
 
 
 

Tru dat. Unfortunately the only time I've heard truly natural sound in a can is in the T1s. The "natural" sound is orgasmic at first, believe me, but eventually the novelty wore off and I was left seeking a more exciting sound.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

The T1 is not really designed for metal 

. They sound really good on vocals, classical, jazz, fusion etc. I hate having to use an EQ if my headphones can't reproduce the sound that I want. 
 

Indeed, and I do keep saying that over and over but people keep telling me I'm wrong and that the T1s are the best for everything and I don't appreciate music or like unrealistic bass etc etc. Funny thing is, none of them actually listen to Metal.
 

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

Tru dat. Unfortunately the only time I've heard truly natural sound in a can is in the T1s. The "natural" sound is orgasmic at first, believe me, but eventually the novelty wore off and I was left seeking a more exciting sound.

with a proper source my shure srh840 is the funnest pair of headphones i have ever heard. and they are supposed to be rather flat and boring to some. well i wonder why this is. i used to have the shure srh750dj which was bass heavy but i prefer these as they have just enough bass in my opinion.
 

according to this graph the shure srh750dj has more sub bass. and it had to much imo.
 
 

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

with a proper source my shure srh840 is the funnest pair of headphones i have ever heard. and they are supposed to be rather flat and boring to some. well i wonder why this is. i used to have the shure srh750dj which was bass heavy but i prefer these as they have just enough bass in my opinion.
 

according to this graph the shure srh750dj has more sub bass. and it had to much imo.
 
 

That's the key right there my friend. If the T1 were the only audiophile headphone I'd ever heard, I'd probably be headbanging regardless of them being ill suited to to illicit such a reaction