[Bloodflowerz]

   
There wasn't hype in the ENTIRE thread 

 
 
But I do hope they do it for you.

Okay okay, with the exception of your posts!

 

[erod]

To be honest, TWerk's critique was that they were TOO good for him at this point in time.

 

[SoundFreaq]

SDJ and SP are very similar sounding, and both of them are leagues better than anything that came before it, in my opinion. You don't need to worry about what was built on what. The SDJ will rock your face off. I listen to them more than anything else I have. Mainly because they are so convenient to listen to, don't need a treasure trove of equipment behind them, and they sound great. They are easy, top headphones. 
 
Of all the headphones I've owned, I've owned the SP and SDJ the longest. 
 
Get this cable for them. A cheap, solid upgrade for the price. There are cables made with those materials that go for hundreds more. 

 

[TWerk]

  To be honest, TWerk's critique was that they were TOO good for him at this point in time.

 
Not really for SIG DJ, that was more what I said about the TH-900.
 
I found overall, sound gets more "refined" as you go up the ladder. I prefer the more extreme V shape of the Pro 900 to their more refined SIG DJ. I also found SIG DJ to not feel comfortable on my head. Pads were too shallow. The velour on the PRO 900 works better for me.
 
I also prefer the looser, warmer sounding Denon's to the Fostex TH-900, which is why I'm selling that headphone. TH-900 is more accurate and clear, but not as musical and enjoyable. In the end, I tried them all, and that's what you have to do to make these decisions FOR YOURSELF.
 
More money spent does not equate with you liking a headphone more.

 

[pietcux]

Not really for SIG DJ, that was more what I said about the TH-900.

I found overall, sound gets more "refined" as you go up the ladder. I prefer the more extreme V shape of the Pro 900 to their more refined SIG DJ. I also found SIG DJ to not feel comfortable on my head. Pads were too shallow. The velour on the PRO 900 works better for me.

I also prefer the looser, warmer sounding Denon's to the Fostex TH-900, which is why I'm selling that headphone. TH-900 is more accurate and clear, but not as musical and enjoyable. In the end, I tried them all, and that's what you have to do to make these decisions FOR YOURSELF.

More money spent does not equate with you liking a headphone more.

I feel that you judge far too fast. You sold both phones, the Sig DJ and the Fostex literally after your initial impression, you seem to be lacking either patience or time to do such jewels justice. I spend far more time to judge much cheaper cans.

 

[TWerk]

I feel that you judge far too fast. You sold both phones, the Sig DJ and the Fostex literally after your initial impression, you seem to be lacking either patience or time to do such jewels justice. I spend far more time to judge much cheaper cans.

 
I do make the decisions quickly. I think it depends on the type of listener that you are. 
 
If you're an audiophile and want to hear each little difference between headphones, you might listen to a headphone for a long time before you decide to make a move.
 
Me? I'm just a dude who likes to listen to EDM music and wants the most fun I can get out of a headphone. I can quickly decide if a particular signature appeals to my ears or not. In the case that there isn't a clear "wow" out of the first few hours, I don't see how more listening time will create that "wow".
 
The four headphones I currently have all appeal to my ears in a way the others didn't. I can only speak for myself (and my equipment), but the ones I have are my favorite. PRO 900 and D5000 seem to be the top two players for me.

 

[sloomingbla]

I do make the decisions quickly. I think it depends on the type of listener that you are. 

If you're an audiophile and want to hear each little difference between headphones, you might listen to a headphone for a long time before you decide to make a move.

Me? I'm just a dude who likes to listen to EDM music and wants the most fun I can get out of a headphone. I can quickly decide if a particular signature appeals to my ears or not. In the case that there isn't a clear "wow" out of the first few hours, I don't see how more listening time will create that "wow".

The four headphones I currently have all appeal to my ears in a way the others didn't. I can only speak for myself (and my equipment), but the ones I have are my favorite. PRO 900 and D5000 seem to be the top two players for me.

Normally switching between headphones can give you a good representation of what it sounds like but when you are coming from ears used to a sound signature like the pro 900s at first impression the differences you hear will be much more dramatic than if you gave a few weeks for your ears to overcome the "omg the highs arent as boosted" effect.

 

[TWerk]

Normally switching between headphones can give you a good representation of what it sounds like but when you are coming from ears used to a sound signature like the pro 900s at first impression the differences you hear will be much more dramatic than if you gave a few weeks for your ears to overcome the "omg the highs arent as boosted" effect.

 
Yea, my problem was I started with the Pro 900 and used it for like a full year. It was my first good headphone that I purchased. Very colored sound to start. I love that sound signature, and haven't found anything that sounds similar in all I've tried. (expect other Ultrasones!)
 
But I mean, I really like the D2000/D5000 (own them both now), and it doesn't have the super boosted highs.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

It sounds more like you simply don't like up-front mids, Denons have a more laid-back presentation too that doesn't push the mids very in-your-face either and keep them a bit at the back for some more spacious sound staging.

Testing a new headphone can be tricky sometimes but it depends a lot in which phase you are in your headphone hobby. Some will develop a very specific taste that likes heavy accentuated V-shape sound and it can last a very long time. For some people the preferences change with time like it's done for me, I've walked from only caring about having as big bass as possible to liking heavily exaggerated V-shape sound (EQ abuse) to despising V-shape sound. These days I look for ^-- type sound with boosted bass and as even mid and highs balance as possible and I don't see my preferences changing from here for a long long time now since I need the bass boost not only for my enjoyment but also for practical reasons, I'm mastering hardstyle tracks on a pretty daily basis and to me mastering this genre I think it's much easier to get the bass quantities right when you have a third element, the ability to feel the bass giving some kind of weird tickling sensation, when that happens I know it's on a suitable level since retail tracks usually provide that, it's tricky to me to judge the bass with balanced bass response which is the opposite what the "book" would tell me but hey it works for me.  

Then we have the old bias issue, that your brain is used to hearing the sound in a certain way and therefore the new headphone might sound "wrong" to you at first. It's certainly happened to me too. Before the M-Audio Q40 I used the cheap Panasonic RP-HTF600 and at first I actually thought I preferred the HTF600 since the mids seemed more immersive and the soundstage was a bit wider especially, the Q40 felt a bit "sterile". I actually put aside the Q40 for a while and went back to HTF600. Then I decided to give Q40 another try and I started using it also when gaming etc to give it some time. Well what do you know, I started hearing the positive sides with it like GREATLY superior resolution in the mids and highs and the bass response was just way more controlled, refined/texured. The better quality highs in particular also became noticeable (the HTF600 has poor resolution in the highs and are pretty muffled although I did give HTF600 slight bit EQing to bring up the highs slightly bit to counter that). I started noticing how life-like the acoustic instruments and female vocals sounded in comparison to the HTF600 and the Q40 now was the very first headphone I've ever owned which I didn't have to EQ at all to be satisfied with how it sounded. I was thinking how the hell could I have preferred going back to HTF600 previously when testing it?

A lot of people also don't truly know exactly what sound appeals the most to them yet, I've started to get a really good idea what appeals to me RIGHT NOW (I don't know if that will change in the future but right now I know) so therefore I also feel today I don't have to test the headphones out as extensively since I know roughly how I want it to sound like, having tested various headphones and analyzed the things I liked and the things I didn't and checked their frequency responses etc have helped me to get to that point. For me it's not so much excitement in the "testing" part, I just wanna find the holy grail immediatly and don't like the returning/selling part (I'm also particularly greedy with spending my money although I got loads to spare atm) so it's hard to get me testing an expensive $500+ headphone without knowing everything about it first (measurements), a few user reviews so I can combine scientific data with some subjective listening conclusions and analyze if it fits my preferences or not.  

 

[TWerk]

Yes, I guess it's that I like recessed mids... that has always been the case with the headphones that I've liked the most. I am a sucker for a large soundstage, which those recessed mids help to create. Right now, my Denons are feeling as close to my personal ideal sound sig as anything I've tried in the last 2 years.
 
You've made some really good points in your post above. Good post.
 
If you master music and need the bass to be present, have you looked into a "sub pac"? I've been reading about the device, and it seems really neat, because it allows you to feel the bass.

 

[TWerk]

@RPGWiZaRD
 
If you look at headroom graphs of the frequency charts for D5000 they look pretty close to your ideal ^--
 
Bump in bass, pretty smooth and level afterwards.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

  @RPGWiZaRD
 
If you look at headroom graphs of the frequency charts for D5000 they look pretty close to your ideal ^--
 
Bump in bass, pretty smooth and level afterwards.

Frequency response graphs doesn't tell the full story though why I also read subjective listening tests. The highs to most people sound slightly emphasized, I guess it's due to the somewhat rough character, most people do find the Denons slightly V-shaped sounding, not heavily so but certainly more V-shaped (bumped bass and highs) than balanced sounding. I'm looking personally for my tastes a more fullbodied in-your-face mids (vocals, instruments) which usually comes with a forward enough sounding midrange, that sound signature to people who prefer V-shape sound would seem like overly "muddy", smooth, some may even use the word veiled, not sparkly enough.

The Denon's bass response is also tilted more towards subbass, I need a balanced midbass and subbass presence, the response is very deep in the Denons and it's not the tightest most controlled response, therefore lacking slight bit of a "punch". To me that punchy character is much more important than the bass quantity itself, I'd rather pick slightly less bass emphasized with good "punch" to it like say the Sennheiser HD25-II comes to my mind (Ultrasone Pro900 also do that particularly well btw) that I've demoed in a shop, it's not measuring overly bassy but for the bass quantity it packs, it really gives a "drum-like" impact feel with bass, a tactile hit. That's important to me, the Denons aren't the first bass emphasized headphone that comes into my mind for that, particularly due to its subbass skewed response and not the tightest bass response around (for a lot of people that's a bonus even). For me the punchiness/feeling the bass is more important than the audible bass quantity. This "punchiness" is readable from the typical 30Hz square wave measurements where you can see a peaky "top" and the peakier/longer protruding peak after the first overshoot or however you'd explain it tells about the punchiness. Tyll explained these things how to interpret the graphs a while ago which I studied.

So it's a combination of the highs being slightly excessively forward/rough not allowing for that in-your-face/up-front mids (because if I turn up the volume to the point the mids will sound loud and up-front the highs will be drilling my ears) and the bass response too tilted towards subbass/slightly lacking that punchiness. 

 

 

[TWerk]

You've described the D2000/D5000 really well. Impressive. It sounds like you own a pair!!!
 
So, which headphones from all your research seem to be the best candidates for you? Or are there none?
 
Also, have you looked into the sub pac I've mentioned earlier? That might fill the lacking bass for some headphones that aren't quite up to speed for you in terms of impact.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

  You've described the D2000/D5000 really well. Impressive. It sounds like you own a pair!!!
 
So, which headphones from all your research seem to be the best candidates for you? Or are there none?
 
Also, have you looked into the sub pac I've mentioned earlier? That might fill the lacking bass for some headphones that aren't quite up to speed for you in terms of impact.

It's good that you brought up the SubPac, I've actually looked at it once earlier, but it's starting to get more and more interesting. I think for me it probably would be a good investment, the S1 that I put in my computer chair that can be run with adapter. I don't think it would help me a lot further than what my setup already brings but it may give a slightly further accurate judgement, kinda like using a spectrum analyzer plugin to see at which levels the frequencies are at but this would give me it in form of vibrations. Also I think I might actually enjoy gaming with it (I don't watch so many movies but I imagine that being more immersive too). For me feeling the bass has always giving me an additional level of satisfaction. I really should consider it, thanks for bringing it up, I've nearly forgot about it. I see they also allow up to 30 days money back and they even pay back any shipping costs (fortunately for them shipping from Finland to US would probably be like $40)! 

The headphones that I think comes closest would be:

- Ultrasone Signature DJ -- my concern is the mids vs highs balance, I have a feel the mids aren't up-front enough, there's both a measurement + some experienced user review suggesting the mids are slightly bit recessed, not much but it's not quite in-level with the highs). Although the rest seems good, the soundstaging may not offer a big upgrade from my Q40, but I'd expect some. The design is to my taste, it's more simple, industrial look, it clamps hard enough (I prefer a reasonably tight clamp) and the bass looks spot-on for my needs.

- Final Audio Design Pandora Hope VI -- The timbre (mids/highs balance) is praised to death, it seems very natural what I'm looking for. It's a well balanced, clear sound but it doesn't seem to have quite the bass quantity I look for but it seems to have that punchiness I'm looking for but the bass quantity seems to be close to neutral from how users compare it to their other headphones, I want roughly 8~10dB or so boost peaking ideally around 80Hz and rolling off a bit down deep and in the upper end past 150Hz or so (it also helps to get the bass impactful/punchy and fast).  

- Dido Perfect Sound D901 -- Actually might be slightly north of the bass quantity I look for, people's description/reviews have me picturing a boost past 10dB, some people have guessed it may well be like 13-15dB even, this is an extreme basshead can even if it's roughly at the price of a Ultrasone Signature DJ. The mids and highs do seem like "decent" not the best detail/resolution out there especially for the price (there's been a "tour" that gelocks sent his pair for others to try). I'd still imagine it comes quite close, a little bit too bassy and maybe not the ideal detail retrieval but another problem would be the low clamping force and creaking noise the metal headband does which I don't think I could withstand, especially for my headbanging/nodding needs.

Shure 1540 -- Great timbre / mids vs highs balance, very even with not huge varieties throughout the entire range. However the bass is slightly bit too subbass skewed peaking at 50Hz when I'd need it more closer to 80Hz.

Audio Technica ATH-WS99 -- I think mids and highs should be quite to my liking, they seem to have a quite neutral tonality and particularly good midrange from all the user reviews I've read but the bass is not quite as strong as I'd need when people compare them against other headphones I've got/tested.

M-Audio Q40? -- I have a feeling these $120 phones may actually already be the holy grail for me. The only aspects I find there's pretty large room for improvements would be soundstaging and highs extension. The soundstaging is particularly important for my gaming needs. The Q40 have decent imaging though, not great but not bad but the soundstage is pretty narrow, a bit better depth perception than width possibly but yea I'd especially want a bit more width. The highs also start rolling off sharply already above 14kHz so this headphones lack "airiness" bigtime. But there's so many things I like about them, the mids vs highs balance, the bass response quantity & quality, the subbass vs midbass balance, the not ideal punchiness but decent amount punch still. The highs also have more of a soft than rough character and I find this softer character more natural sounding and I can't spot any annoying upper-mid frequency resonance peaks like I sometimes do in other headphones around the 3-4kHz range especially.


Then I'm constantly on the lookout for new ones, one particular headphone would be the new Focal Spirit One "S" which is advertised as a "bass boosted" but even mids/highs for "on-the-go" use. They have used same structure and secrets from the Focal Spirit Pro/classic for this new model but it's cheaper than those and it's probably more meant to be an improved Focal Spirit One than an "on-the-go" Focal Spirit Pro/Classic so not having too high hopes due to the 179€ pricetag (probably $219 or something the US). 

 

[TWerk]

M audio came out with a successor to the Q40, the hdh50. I've not read about it or heard about it, but figured I'd mention it because of your love for the Q40.
 
And yes, the sub pac looks really cool. There's another product called Woojer, that should be coming out soon, which is a similar concept, but it's much smaller and attaches to your shirt. 
 
Because I like to dance around sometimes (hard to listen to EDM sitting down), Woojer might be something I want to try. Sub pac has the M1, but it looks really bulky and ugly. Then, this company called bassaware made a holster too, but I'm not sure cause there aren't many reviews out there for it. 
 
Suddenly, there seems to be this influx of "feel the bass" type products. It seems though, that S1 is probably the best out there right now. If you decide to try it, please let me know what you think!