[penchant]

  I was just doing some serious listening on 1.2.8 and did some AB testing between the DX50's HO and the LO/UHA-6SMKII.
 
At the same volume level in DX50 (210) and matching the HO and amp volume using the SPL Meter (iPhone app) at around 77 dB, I can say it is really difficult to hear any difference (in terms of SQ, soundstage, instrument separation and depth). You will need tracks with a lot of instruments playing to even hear the smallest of difference. The bass might be a little bit tighter with the LO/amp but on casual listening you will not notice any difference.
 
On a proper blind testing I don't think anyone can tell a difference. I'm now 100% convinced 1.2.8 truly is the best FW to date.
 
However, there is still an advantage using the LO/amp( in this case with UHA-6S). If I turn the volume level in DX50 all the way up to 255 and then attenuate the volume knob on the amp so that the output volume is still around 77 dB the difference gets a little bit more obvious. On this setup the bass is much more tighter, slam more forceful, the mids a bit cleaner and more details being resolved in the highs it seem. Also the instrument separation is more obvious and each instrument can be heard clearly and does not interfere or mask another. Overall, the sound is a bit better.
 
Of course, if you want the pristine pocketable DAP setup, DX50 + 1.2.8 is tough to beat and an amp is not needed unless you want to use a full size headphone that requires more power than the internal amp of DX50 can provide.

 
 
+1
 
I did the same thing before between DX50’s amp section and O2 and came to the same results, as posted in #6414.
 
I really don’t think the internal amp is that bad. It’s the digital volume control that makes the HP out bad. We are not supposed to hear much difference but I believe I did and many others could as well. Ibasso should have made the lower gains even lower so that we can crank the volume up to ~240 or higher when using sensitive IEM’s on HP out.
 
 

 

[highfell]

An amplifier's purpose is to amplify power. If you're looking for an amplifier to do anything other that this then you're throwing good money after bad. All of these other things are just ways to rationalize spending money that would be better spent elsewhere such as components that sound good to you in the first place.

I think you are missing the point.

The Amplifier whether it is the built in one within the Dx50 or an external one provides "colouration" to the sound by virtue of, if nothing else, the different OPamps or buffers.

It is therefore it is entirely logical to decide to use the amplifier that you like.

 

[ratinox]

It is therefore it is entirely logical to decide to use the amplifier that you like.

I never suggested it wasn't. My suggestion is that if a given combination of player and headphones does not give you what you want then use a different combination of player and headphones that does. Bolting on more components is the illogical thing. It doesn't address the problem. It just covers up symptoms and adds distortion to the signal.

 

[highfell]

Just to make a point: all op-amps sound the same. They really do. The differences we hear come from the implementations of different amplifier designs: power, gain, attenuation, noise filtering and so forth. For example, wiring the Liquid Gold's op-amp into a cMoy design will make it sound different from the LG. So yes, I agree that there are better amplifier designs than the one in DX50. There are also worse designs out there..

I am thinking of getting some MUSES, this was the advice I was given, which indicated not all OPamps are the same. Seems credible commentary to me

"The real difference is the MUSES01 is JFET whereas the 02 is Bi-polar. The 01, being a JFET, has a much higher slew rate and they sound very different indeed. All JFET op-amps tend to sound brighter and tighter in the top end with Bi-polar’s tending to give a warmer sound. It’s a crude way of looking at them but as a ‘rule-of-thumb’ it works. The circuit around them obviously has an effect as well.

The majority have gone for the warmth of the 02 against the tightness of the 01, but then we have European ears. If you go to Japan or China, they tend to prefer the 01, but then listen to a Japanese person singing and you’d notice they tend to have a higher pitched voice than an European. It is no surprise that they would go for the 01. Also, people who fall in love with reproduced music in Europe, particularly in the UK and the USA still have a fondness for vinyl and valves, it’s the warmth we seem to hear first, then the detail. "

 

[headwhacker]

I never suggested it wasn't. My suggestion is that if a given combination of player and headphones does not give you what you want then use a different combination of player and headphones that does. Bolting on more components is the illogical thing. It doesn't address the problem. It just covers up symptoms and adds distortion to the signal.

Why is it not logical? Adding an amp to the chain sometimes is cheaper and makes your setup flexible while maximizing the SQ wherever you are. If I take what you are suggesting I would end up with multiple pairs or headphone/DAP to find the match you are talking about.
 
Where in my case I can have iems/headphones which gives me the flexibility of listening experience (on the road and my desk) using only one source/DAP. To me that's logical. Sure you give up few things but I achieve both listening experience using the same source. 
 
Why is it adding distortion when you are just bypassing the internal amp? Technically, you have the same number of components in the chain.

 

[ratinox]

I am thinking of getting some MUSES, this was the advice I was given, which indicated not all OPamps are the same. Seems credible commentary to me

I didn't say they were all the same. They're not. They all have different optimal power and load envelopes, different noise from different kinds of imperfections and so forth. What I wrote is that they all sound the same with the caveat that different implementations of amplifier circuits will make for different output signals. If you change a component in the circuit, even the op-amp itself, then you change the characteristics of the circuit. Of course you're going to get something different out.

Why is it adding distortion when you are just bypassing the internal amp? Technically, you have the same number of components in the chain.

But you don't. Each extra box requires an interconnect cable. Each interconnect cable is composed of wires and connectors and solder points. Each of these is subject to external interference. This interference adds noise to the signal.

I apologize for conflating audio component with electrical/electronic component. Mea culpa.

 

[musicheaven]

Lots of time with a Radio Shack 150-in-1 electronics kit and a year as a double-E major. I still remember making my first crystal radio with that kit.
I have used Google and Wikipedia to check myself before posting but the basics are still in my head.

I was once playing with Lego blocks when I was a kid that does make me an architect.

Got you!

A wise man told me once; when one has to flank his rank to the other, he has lost the debate battle by sounding bigger than he really is.

Seriously though I got your point but you know that for an argument there is always a counter argument. Bottom line is it does not take anything away from the DX50, it is just a constant search for a better sound that you start changing configurations.

 

[ratinox]

Where in my case I can have iems/headphones which gives me the flexibility of listening experience (on the road and my desk) using only one source/DAP. To me that's logical. Sure you give up few things but I achieve both listening experience using the same source. 

This is a horse of a different color. It's not covering up a perceived problem in a device. It's making that device (more) useful in a variety of environments. Different problem, different solution. An amplifier may be a more logical solution than buying multiple players.

 

[zzvelik]

I can only find v1.2.7 (Dec 29) as the latest firmware from the Ibasso download page ( http://www.ibasso.com/en/download/index.asp )
 
Was v1.2.8 removed or is there another firmware site?  TIA

 

[alan_g]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/679473/the-ibasso-dx50-thread-latest-firmware-1-2-8

 

[ratinox]

I can only find v1.2.7 (Dec 29) as the latest firmware from the Ibasso download page ( http://www.ibasso.com/en/download/index.asp )

Was v1.2.8 removed or is there another firmware site?  TIA

What alan_g wrote. iBasso has historically taken days or even weeks between putting files on their server(s) and updating the index pages.

 

[highfell]

What I wrote is that they all sound the same with the caveat that different implementations of amplifier circuits will make for different output signals. If you change a component in the circuit, even the op-amp itself, then you change the characteristics of the circuit. Of course you're going to get something different

I don't understand what you mean. On the one hand you state OPamps sound the same, but then above you imply putting a different Opamp in a circuit and you will get something different. Can you explain?

I am very clear that different OPamps will create a different sound signature.

 

[HungryPanda]

I have the AKG K545's and Minerva Pro Performer ciem's and both sound great with the DX50 with no amp from the HO. Now with the new 1.2.8 firmware the sound is incredible.

 

[ratinox]

I don't understand what you mean. On the one hand you state OPamps sound the same, but then above you imply putting a different Opamp in a circuit and you will get something different. Can you explain?

I am very clear that different OPamps will create a different sound signature.

Let me start with an example: the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro. There are three different versions of this headphone with different nominal impedance measurements but they are otherwise identical and should sound identical given the same source and appropriate power. What happens when you swap different versions of this headphone into the same amplifier jack without changing the gain and volume? The sound changes. Why? Because the electrical characteristics of the circuit changes.

The same thing happens when you change components in an amplifier circuit. If you change the op-amp then you change the characteristics of the circuit and you get a different sound signature.

Does this help?

 

[highfell]

Let me start with an example: the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro. There are three different versions of this headphone with different nominal impedance measurements but they are otherwise identical and should sound identical given the same source and appropriate power. What happens when you swap different versions of this headphone into the same amplifier jack without changing the gain and volume? The sound changes. Why? Because the electrical characteristics of the circuit changes.

The same thing happens when you change components in an amplifier circuit. If you change the op-amp then you change the characteristics of the circuit and you get a different sound signature.

Does this help?

Yes and I would agree with all of that. But I think you are also stating that OPamps DO sound different