Sound Science Approach to Modding Headphones
Jul 30, 2019 at 1:23 PM Post #61 of 72
@yuriv @csglinux

I'll try varying the insertion depth, but it seems like there is quite a bit of amplitude despressions around 6-9k compared to other rigs (as can be seen from my MH755 measurement).

Another issue is with tip fit on the coupler. I use smallest MH755 tips because they fit the best, but still slides over time. I don't know how to keep it stable besides having something holding it in place. Varying the depth and keeping it stable for precision will be a challenge.
 
Jul 30, 2019 at 2:47 PM Post #62 of 72
The biggest difference does seem to be near 1 kHz, shown by the cursor above. I don’t remember the seller, but the model looks just like the one at headflux.de. I’m just not getting the huge ear canal resonance peaks in my measurements, compared to theirs. The closest-looking picture of the ones on Taobao is this one: link
Hi @yuriv - I actually have that plinth coupler - from the exact same seller, Liliang Hong :) (Awesome individual, BTW - I highly recommend that seller.) My plinth coupler measures like your red line, not the green. Would be very interested in tracking down the origin of your coupler that produced the green curve, if you can...? @hakuzen - what does your plinth coupler response look like around 1 kHz?

If we’re all trying to make frequency response measurements at the IEC 60268-7 test level (94 dB SPL at 500 Hz), then we won’t need to offset everyone else’s data when we’re doing the comparison. One sweep takes a few seconds, and it also buys us basic harmonic distortion measurements if done in REW. It might be good to average a few sweeps though.
Very true.

Agreed, the difference from the insertion depth is bigger. We’re already making the effort to carefully set up and make one measurement. It'll be an efficient use of time to make more measurements at different insertion depths while we're already set up. it really doesn’t take much additional effort for each set of sine sweeps. Maybe change signal output level a little bit between measurements to make sure it’s still at the same acoustic test level.

@SilverEars: To start the ball rolling and give the tour participants the best chance of getting an apples-to-apples comparison with your data, it is your duty—nay, your privilege, lol—to make measurements of the three IEMs at various insertion depths. Let us know how many points you used for each measurement, and how many sweeps. Post the results in the ER2SE thread. A good summary might be a frequency response chart for each IEM with the results for the different insertion depths superimposed on the graph. Plus a harmonic distortion vs. frequency graph at one chosen insertion depth for each IEM. Or just make the .mdat files available and we can make the charts ourselves.
Unfortunately, @SilverEars has already posted those tour units back to me, so the pressure I guess is now on me to do a zillion measurements in 1 picometer increments :wink: I'll shift discussions on that topic back to the other thread...

About that RA0045 measurement: It’s interesting that the measurement with the Comply TX100 has the bigger peak at 10k than the triple flange. I wonder what's going on there.
Astute observation! I'll revisit these at some point, but I think I know what's happening. The triple flange tips are so long that I believe in some of my measurements they press up against the grill in front of the coupler mic. I should have checked that more carefully. From memory, however, I'm fairly sure that the SPL (@~10 kHz) isn't any less with the Tx100 foam tips. I usually prep the tips by squashing them flat before rolling - as a result the Tx100 have a larger effective bore diameter than the triple flange. No matter how wide the bore opening, the upper frequencies always seem to roll-off more with foam though.

I think my other coupler is the same model as your TBC1-4. It even follows the slight roll-off in the bass.

The slight roll-off in the bass you see with @SilverEars' measurements are his mic, not his coupler. He does have a mic compensation file, but has so far demonstrated superhuman powers of restraint in not using it :wink:

I'll try varying the insertion depth, but it seems like there is quite a bit of amplitude despressions around 6-9k compared to other rigs (as can be seen from my MH755 measurement).
I've made many measurements with that coupler and never seen that issue. I think you just need to get a bit of confidence in measuring a few more IEMs with it. I suspect you're looking at unit variations in the headphones themselves, or different eartips, or different insertion depths, or (most likely) all of the above. The only thing I notice in your measurements (besides that mild discrepancy @ ~ 1kHz) is that you aren't using your mic compensation file.

Another issue is with tip fit on the coupler. I use smallest MH755 tips because they fit the best, but still slides over time. I don't know how to keep it stable besides having something holding it in place. Varying the depth and keeping it stable for precision will be a challenge.

I've found mounting putty to be essential. I use it for every measurement, because if I don't, I usually see glitches or ripples in the FR as a result of vibration/movement of the IEM in the coupler during the measurement. I'd recommended mounting putty (blu tack to English people) to @SilverEars, and that's always worked great for me, but @SilverEars seems to have bought something (on my recommendation - sorry buddy!) that was all sticky and had the consistency of bubble gum. Mounting putty shouldn't be like that unless you're measuring in an oven. What do others use to hold IEMs in place while measuring?
 
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May 14, 2022 at 7:38 AM Post #65 of 72

to preserve the article I waybacked it and uploaded here for those interested​

Skullcandy's Director of Electrical & Acoustical Engineering, Dr. Tetsuro Oishi Visits InnerFidelity!​


By Tyll Hertsens • Posted: Mar 5, 2012


120305_blog_tetsvisit_photo_main.jpg


Dr. Tetsuro Oishi
Tet is from Japan and came to the U.S. to attend U. Mass at Dartmouth for his advanced degrees in acoustics and electrical engineering. There he designed and fabricated various prototype transducers for underwater applications such as directional broadband piezoelectric transducers and arrays, acoustic motion sensors, and bioacoustic transducers. He also developed a water pollution detection system using the acoustic resonance spectroscopy technique. Wow, cool stuff.
Out of school he went to work for Bose's Automotive division modeling audio in cars, and then into the headphone division where he worked on noise canceling technologies. He also had a hand in the AE2 design.
Early in 2010, Skullcandy recruited him to lead its effort to improve the audio design and quality of its headphones. Yet another piece of hard evidence that Skullcandy intends to become a strong and well-founded maker of headphones.
The Hesh 2.0
The Skullcandy Hesh ($50) has been around for some time. The Hesh 2.0 ($59-$69 MSRP, likely available in April at Target and Best Buy) is a complete revision, and is Tet's first full effort at Skullcandy. This headphone is a medium-low cost circumaural, sealed headphone; designed for a big-bass sound; and no doubt a potentially very popular headphone among the action sports crowd looking to upgrade from junker headphones.
I put the Hesh 2.0s through the measurements routine with Tet looking on, and we spent a good bit of time discussing how to get a good fit and seal on the head. Over the last year I've developed some techniques for getting the job done, and I was heartened to hear that Tet uses some of the very same methods in his testing. (Sorry, I've got some competing publications measuring headphones, so I'm not going to detail these techniques.)
The Hesh 2.0 measured fairly flat to 1kHz with, what I consider, an appropriate roll-off to 4kHz, and then a reduction in overall treble energy about 5-10dB reduced beyond what I would consider flat.
Subsequent to our visit, I spent a good bit of time listening to these headphones, and comparing them to the Sony MDR-XB500 and Audio-Technica ATH-WS55. I felt the Hesh and WS55 easily bested the XB500, which sounded woolly and bloated in comparison. The WS55 emphasized the bass and the mid/upper treble a bit more, but the Hesh seemed more even and coherent. I think the choice of having good bass extention; keeping the bass properly related to the mids; and then rolling off the highs to get rid of crappy harshness from compressed files, and give the impression of big bass, is the way to go for this type of can. (Overwhelming bass is overwhelming.) I think the Hesh 2.0 is going to be the go-to recommendation for the hoodie wearing, bass-heads out there.
General Headphone Talk
Tet gave me some super help interpreting headphone measurement data (and we'll get to that on the next page), but we spent quite a bit of time just talking about headphones in general. Well ... that's not quite right, we talked about a wide variety of very particular aspects of headphones. Because I'm free to opine, and he's constrained by the nature of his job, I'll quickly rattle through a few of the topics we covered and what my take was:

  • Headphone mini-plugs - Should be slender and have enough "neck" on them to reach into the jack while the player has a protective cover on it. Plugs should not be straight as it tends to stress the jack more; and I believe plugs should not be 90-degree angles, as it tends to snag on things more easily. I like a 45-degree angle plug. I showed him the plugs on the V-Moda M-80 as an example of a great plug.
  • Freedom of spin in "lay flat" headphones - If the headphones are laying flat with cushions down on a table in front of you, you should be able to pick the headphones up and spin the earpieces towards your ears and slightly beyond. But there should be a limit in how far they can spin so as to provide a little more pressure of the pads behind the ears than in front of the ears.
  • Headphone cables should have plugs at both ends - Headphone cables should attach to the earpiece with a straight 3.5mm mini-plug, and without any weird mechanical attachments. This will allow the manufacturer to make one cable that fits all of its headphones, and alternate cables to turn the headphones into headsets for iPhones, Androids, and other phones easily. Even if a manufacturer doesn't provide those options, having a standard connector will allow the user to buy aftermarket cable to suit the customer's style of use.
  • Tangle-free cables - It's a hot topic among headphone makers at the moment, and I showed Tet the cable on the Philips Citiscape Downtown. It's a flat cable you can wad to your heart's content, and when you let it go, nine times out of ten it just "sproings" open completely tangle free. Then I showed him a prototype I got from a company with a flat, woven-cover cable the is almost impossible to handle without tangling.
Most interesting to me was the feeling that we were two hard-core headphone enthusiasts, yammering on about headphones at about the highest possible level one could imagine. It was great fun, and immensely satisfying.
The coolest thing of all, though, was getting Tet's run-down on headphone measurements.



Skullcandy's Director of Electrical & Acoustical Engineering, Dr. Tetsuro Oishi Visits InnerFidelity! Page 2​




Tet Teaches Me About Headphone Measurements
Most interesting of all, to me, was our dialog about headphone measurements and what they mean. First, it's terribly complicated with many variables coming into play, so looking at a set of measurements will never let you diagnose exactly what's going on. But there are a few things that tend to show up on the graphs, which, depending on where they are, can indicate the likelihood of particular problems.
120305_blog_tetsvisit_graph_frcompare
Main Spring - Well ... that's my word for it. The "springiness" of the earcushions and the enclosed air volume allows for a low frequency resonance to develop. Think of it like the earphones bouncing gently on and off your ears. This will typically appear as some frequency response feature between 50Hz and 150Hz. In the Frequency plots to the right, the initial feature in the lows of each headphone is probably this "main spring" effect. You can see in the incredibly well engineered Sennheiser HD 800 the merest blip at 60Hz; all heaven and earth moves between 60Hz and 80Hz on the DT48.
Poor Ear-pad Seal - If the ear-pad is not sealing well, you will see a second-order (dramatic) drop-off in the lows. In the headphones to the right, the AKG K272 is likely not sealing properly. I'll probably have to go through my measurements and identify poorly sealing cans for re-measurement using my improved headphone positioning methods.
Voice Coil Wobble - If the magnetic field strength or voice coil weight isn't perfectly distributed around the circle of the voice coil, it will be accelerated with more force on one side than another. This might be from misaligned pole pieces or an eccentric voice coil, for example. At some frequency, this wobble will hit a resonance and create a blip in the frequency or impedance response, typically somewhere between 300Hz and 1kHz. In the frequency response plots to the right, the features above 300Hz on the T5p and K272 are likely candidates. Tet said coil wobble features are typically high-Q--meaning they are typically quite spiky looking.
Internal Driver Resonances - Behind the diaphragm is the magnet assembly. Small volumes of air can be partially trapped in this space creating the opportunity for resonance. Because these volumes are very small, the resonant frequency is quite high--typically between 2kHz and 8kHz. Headphone frequency response tends to become noisy in this range, so it may be difficult to separate internal driver resonances from resonances elsewhere in the headphone. But because these resonances exert a direct load on the driver diaphragm, and therefore voice coil, the reactive load of these resonances will readily appear on the impedance response plot. It is likely the fine features above 2kHz in the impedance response plots to the right are due to internal driver resonances.
There are, of course, many other characteristics of headphones that may manifest as wiggles in plots. The magnitude and combinations are endless, and as Tet looked at the measurements there was always great caution in his judgments. He'd always suggest some sort of test we could try to affect the plotted measurement to identify its origin. That's his job. Unfortunately, it's not mine, and while I'll continue to learn, my time with Tet tells me I'll really never be able to diagnose accurately what's going on in a particular pair of headphones by measurements alone.
There is good news though: while we can't know for certain the cause of particular bumps and wiggles, we can say for certain that less is more. A well designed headphone that is well manufactured with quality parts will have fewer of these bumps and wiggles than a poorly-executed headphone of the same type. It's important to note here that some headphone types will naturally have more features in their plots than others. A well designed circumaural, open headphone will always be flatter than an equally well designed supra-aural sealed headphone.
Thanks for the Visit, Tet!
Funny story: Tet and I are going through the book of graphs just for giggles and to point stuff out, and we stumble upon the Beyerdynamic DT48. He says, "Oh stop! Look at that: that has got to be a sealed circumaural headphone with a very small and tightly sealed chamber behind the driver."
"How do you know," I wondered?
"Well, it's virtually a text book plot. The huge main spring dip and peak at 60Hz and 80Hz means its a tightly sealed enclosure between the driver and the side of the head, and that it has very springy cushions. And the fact that the bass recovers flat, but very low in amplitude means the enclosure behind the driver is tightly sealed and small."
"Yuppers."
I am familiar with the headphones, and Googled a picture of the DT48. Of course, they fit Tet's description to a T.
Man, I am so glad to have had the opportunity to talk to a real expert on headphone design and learn this stuff. I'll no doubt be rummaging through all my measurements to start a list of plots that I think I can improve on; and I'll also be looking at data in the future with wiser eyes. I'm sure all you headphone geeks out there will feel the same after reading this far.
Thanks so much, Tet!
 
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May 16, 2022 at 2:10 PM Post #66 of 72
I've been recently thinking about the nature of headphone modding and how to properly attack it from a sound science perspective, rather than trial and error. I'm not an extremely experienced headphone modder, nor am I an audio engineer, but I'm looking for criticism of my headphone modding breakdown. This is just a collection of my speculations with sources.
I enjoyed my time modifying a pair of T50RP using tips from the BMF thread. As they are low efficiency, I drive them with a Centronics HiFi M8 amp.
I used to pair this DAC-amp with an old iPhone as my streamer, until Tidal stopped supporting old iOS versions :angry:

My older pics are on this page:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jus...50rps-today-wow.452404/page-734#post-11321413

Since I got my Elegias (with fenestrated pads) I regret that the Fostex is now only used when I need to listen to my PC without disturbing anyone.
 

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May 23, 2022 at 3:16 AM Post #67 of 72
I enjoyed my time modifying a pair of T50RP using tips from the BMF thread. As they are low efficiency, I drive them with a Centronics HiFi M8 amp.
I used to pair this DAC-amp with an old iPhone as my streamer, until Tidal stopped supporting old iOS versions :angry:

My older pics are on this page:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jus...50rps-today-wow.452404/page-734#post-11321413

Since I got my Elegias (with fenestrated pads) I regret that the Fostex is now only used when I need to listen to my PC without disturbing anyone.
I have a couple of old 70s cans which I think look really good so Ive ordered some drivers to see if I can get them sounding decent. When I saw that they originally had 80mm drivers I just had to try the Chinese 70mm you can find in the blon bl 30 and on aliexpress. The drivers have some mixed reviews from what I can find about the blons but in a thread on superbestaudiofriends a member seems to be able to tame them somewhat. What worries me is the enormous air volume in the earcups. The earlier post about cotton making the m50s smoother seems interesting but shouldn’t cotton act like polyfill and make the air volume seen larger? Right now im experimenting with another pair of similar headphones and chinese drivers that became very boomy when presented with this new enclosure. Should I just give up on the big earcups or is there a way to solve this? Im familiar with building speakers but headphones are surprisingly different.
 
Aug 1, 2022 at 10:36 PM Post #68 of 72
I've been reading one of the Fostex threads and I frequently hear the many "audiophile" terminology. It got me thinking how these modders can compare to engineers who has the knowledge and access to test equipments.

there's even 1 reply who sealed their open phones and claimed dramatic changes.

What's the actual science involved in the modding? (anybody can open up their phones and fill that space with some sort cotton-type material)
 
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Aug 1, 2022 at 11:49 PM Post #69 of 72
I've been reading one of the Fostex threads and I frequently hear the many "audiophile" terminology. It got me thinking how these modders can compare to engineers who has the knowledge and access to test equipments.

there's even 1 reply who sealed their open phones and claimed dramatic changes.

What's the actual science involved in the modding? (anybody can open up a can and fill that space with some sort cotton-type material)
I'm sure there were dramatic changes if you put it that way 😅
 
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Aug 4, 2022 at 9:32 PM Post #70 of 72
I've been reading one of the Fostex threads and I frequently hear the many "audiophile" terminology. It got me thinking how these modders can compare to engineers who has the knowledge and access to test equipments.

there's even 1 reply who sealed their open phones and claimed dramatic changes.

What's the actual science involved in the modding? (anybody can open up their phones and fill that space with some sort cotton-type material)
Yes. See my mods:


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jus...50rps-today-wow.452404/page-734#post-11321413

I still enjoy these phones, but am purging my collection so I listed them on Craigslist (Vancouver) for $155 CAD
 
Aug 4, 2022 at 10:10 PM Post #72 of 72
enjoying them has no relation to science aspect (or lack of) of the mods :)
I am more of a fact than faith guy, but I had fun doing trial and error, albeit not totally understanding the science behind it.
 

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