[gerelmx1986]

Unlike a laptop or PC, the Sony WMC-NWH10 cable will not supply even a trace amount of 5V current to any DAC plugged into its female USB A jack.

Mike

Oh, so wmc-NWH10 doesn't provide any current to the conneted DAC then the intriguing question and the most baffling one, why then the battery of the ZX1, F880, A10 walkmans drains so ungodly fast using the WMC-NWH10????? Only sony knows perhaps or perhaps all those walkmans have a hidden bug in ther digital out implementation

 

[gerelmx1986]

 

You people are going to kill your hearing

Why do you say that?

yep why? amp doesn't meant Crazy loudness, it means well driven headphones

 

[jmsaxon69]

They guy who said he listens to his MDR-1A at full volume on a A17, that's LOUD! Those cans are not that hard to drive.

 

[gerelmx1986]

They guy who said he listens to his MDR-1A at full volume on a A17, that's LOUD! Those cans are not that hard to drive.

ah ok ok, a misunderstanding from our part

 I never listen loud, i usend louder volumen levels if the track is ungodly quiet (have a purcell keyboard suites CD, all tarcks are fine in volume... excep the last one is so mega quiet that i have to cranck on max, they seem to have forgotten the mixer controls or so and i have other Disc witht he same problem but i don't remember which one)

 

[Sonic Defender]

They guy who said he listens to his MDR-1A at full volume on a A17, that's LOUD! Those cans are not that hard to drive.

Sorry, but still not accurate. I am 46 years old and I have been to more rock concerts than I can remember, I play the drums, and yes the A17 was on full and was extremely comfortable. My hearing was tested by an audiologist about 4 years ago and my hearing was well within normal ranges. The trick is to not listen for long at loud volumes without breaks which I always do. I rarely listen for more than 20 minutes at a time. And the A17 isn't that powerful for driving the MDR 1As, at least not for me. I now have my E12 hooked up thankfully. 

 

[fish1050]

New to the forum,
 
I have my NWZ-A17 velcroed to a Fiio E11K and using Bowers and Wilkins P3 and AKG 451's.  Have to say I love the combination.
The AWZ-A17 is powerful enough to drive both sets of headphones fine.  I can't use IEM's as I am prone to ear infections and find them uncomfortable. Adding the E11K provides a wider soundstage and a fuller sound than the A17 alone at least to my ears. 
 
I use to sell high end stereo equipment and I find having the extra current from an external amp helps drive the headphones more effectively when the dynamics of the song requires it.  So it isn't just about making the DAP sound louder with the external amp but also improving the overall impact of the sound (driving the headphones more efficiently). 
 
I was using the Fiio L5 cable but the connector came lose after repeatedly plugging and unplugging if from the A17..  Being forced to use the male to male cable  (3.5mm to 3.5mm) that came with the E11K I found no difference in sound quality double amping the headphones and I found no perceptible difference in the volume when cranking to A17 to 30 vs bypassing the A17 amp.  I have the volume set to 20 on the a17 and it hasn't impacted the battery life much. 
 
I like not having to unplug the L5 every time I need to charge the A17 or transfer songs.  I have concerns about the long term reliability of the LOD connector on the A17 so not having to constantly plug in and unplug the L5 eases my concerns.
 
I just ordered the Fiio L16 3.5mm to 3.5 mm male cable from headphonebar in Canada . I was going to order the L17 (right angle connectors) from amazon but it was more than twice as much and not worth extra cost.  The pure copper cable and silver connectors probably won't affect the sound quality much but it does look cool and it isn't much more expensive than buying another L5 cable.

 

[gerelmx1986]

  New to the forum,
 
I have my NWZ-A17 velcroed to a Fiio E11K and using Bowers and Wilkins P3 and AKG 451's.  Have to say I love the combination.
The AWZ-A17 is powerful enough to drive both sets of headphones fine.  I can't use IEM's as I am prone to ear infections and find them uncomfortable. Adding the E11K provides a wider soundstage and a fuller sound than the A17 alone at least to my ears. 
 
I use to sell high end stereo equipment and I find having the extra current from an external amp helps drive the headphones more effectively when the dynamics of the song requires it.  So it isn't just about making the DAP sound louder with the external amp but also improving the overall impact of the sound (driving the headphones more efficiently). 
 
I was using the Fiio L5 cable but the connector came lose after repeatedly plugging and unplugging if from the A17..  Being forced to use the male to male cable  (3.5mm to 3.5mm) that came with the E11K I found no difference in sound quality double amping the headphones and I found no perceptible difference in the volume when cranking to A17 to 30 vs bypassing the A17 amp.  I have the volume set to 20 on the a17 and it hasn't impacted the battery life much. 
 
I like not having to unplug the L5 every time I need to charge the A17 or transfer songs.  I have concerns about the long term reliability of the LOD connector on the A17 so not having to constantly plug in and unplug the L5 eases my concerns.
 
I just ordered the Fiio L16 3.5mm to 3.5 mm male cable from headphonebar in Canada . I was going to order the L17 (right angle connectors) from amazon but it was more than twice as much and not worth extra cost.  The pure copper cable and silver connectors probably won't affect the sound quality much but it does look cool and it isn't much more expensive than buying another L5 cable.

so you say the FiiO L5 LOD is a flimsy product? OMG then i have to take care of mine

 

[Mickice]

 
Well, the best portable DAP? High praise indeed, but that does seem unrealistic. The Pono is supposed to be amazing as is the X5 and then of course there are the A&K players. Pretty tough competition. I hope your only exaggerating a little as I am close to getting an A17.

Its all about the price you pay, this Walkman is significantly cheaper. Best in class then? 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Its all about the price you pay, this Walkman is significantly cheaper. Best in class then? 

So subjective. I'm not sure what to say. I just picked up an A17 today and a pair of MDR 1A, so after more time I will have some opinion, but without the other DAPs on hand again difficult to know. A friend of mine picked up an X1 recently so I can attempt to compare and contrast these units. Suffice to say the A17 sounds quite good and it has a very decent UI.

 

[gelocks]

As I wrote on another forum...

I've been surprised with the A17!!
So light and REALLY portable, good sounding, EXCELLENT UI, GREAT battery life.
Does it sound "better" than my ZX1, AK 100MK2 or even the FiiO X5? Ermm no, not really, it's a bit "soft" up-top, it sounds as if the top end is a bit boosted, etc. but does it kill in mostly all other categories already mentioned?

I would say yes and I will be selling my other DAPs. It's that good (for me!!)

 

[zilch0md]

Oh, so wmc-NWH10 doesn't provide any current to the conneted DAC then the intriguing question and the most baffling one, why then the battery of the ZX1, F880, A10 walkmans drains so ungodly fast using the WMC-NWH10????? Only sony knows perhaps or perhaps all those walkmans have a hidden bug in ther digital out implementation

Maybe there's a processor inside that big connector that consumes power..,

 

[carlosodze]

Is the a17 a good pair for fidelio x2? I was going to get the fiio x5but i am not sure, the fidelio has only 32ohms...

 

[fish1050]

I have beendoing some research into Sony's S-Master amplifier used in the NWZ-A17 and there other Hi-Res players.  The S-Master amplifier is a class D Amplifier.  A Class D amplifier is pure digital (no analog components).  The advantages of a Class D amplifier are efficiency, low heat and long battery life and compact design.  This is why the NWZ-A17 has much better battery life than other Hi-Res players. It also why the Sony unit is so compact. 
 
You can't really make a pure digital amplifier sound warm (needs analog components) which is why the sound of NWZ-A17 is considered clear and analytical.  
 
There are disadvantages however, the main one being interference and noise.  People who use sensitive IEM's with this unit often complain about hiss which is generated by the class D amplifier circuitry.  Another disadvantage is that Class D amplifiers have a low damping factor. Damping factor is the ability of the amplifier to control the movement of the diaphragm of the driver.  Thus the sound you hear will likely very quite a bit from headphone to headphone depending on the drivers used in the headphones.
 
Class D amplifiers don't scale very well making it difficult to put a decent powered amp in a unit as small as the A17. A more powerful amp would require a larger unit size and a more complex and expensive design.   
 
While Sony has done a lot over the years to mitigate the disadvantages of the Class D amplifier as have other electronics manufacturers not all of them can be eliminated.  Class D amplifiers are now used in all compact electronic devices like smart phones and tablets.  Before class D amplifiers came along most smaller electronic devices used Class A/B amplifiers which are larger and quite a bit less efficient .  A lot more power is lost to heat and thus a bigger battery with less battery life would have to be used.  The advantage or disadvantage depending on your preference is a warmer sound.  The other advantage seems to clearly be higher power output.  I can't say for sure what other DAP manufacturers are using for their amplifiers but it is unlikely warmer sounding players are using pure Class D amplifiers.  It is apparently very hard to build class D amplifier that works well but Sony with its vast experience seems to have done a very good job
 
Even the soon to be released NWZ-X2 at $1200.00 which uses the same S-Master amplifier technologies has a rated power output of only 10mw per channel.  Not exactly what you would expect from such an expensive player.  But Sony seems to have clearly decided to sacrifice power for battery life.  Perhaps in the hope that people will feel the pull towards buying one of their digital amps.
 
Some people like the clearer more analytical sound of the NWZ-A17 vs the warmer sound of the Fiio players.  If you want the advantages of the NWZ-A17 in terms of battery life and compact size, UI etc.. and the warmer sound of a Fiio then pairing the NWZ-A17 with a Fiio amp could give you the best of both worlds.  I have the relatively new Fiio E11K which is not considered a warm sounding amp but  it does give my A17 a slightly warmer sound.  A better pairing for warmth might be the E12 which is said to have a warmer sound than the newer E11K.  There are likely amps from other manufacturers that are even warmer sounding.
 
I am sure other users with more amplifier knowledge could explain this stuff better. But after reading up on class D amplifiers I think I made a good choice in getting an external amplifier.

 

[carlosodze]

I have beendoing some research into Sony's S-Master amplifier used in the NWZ-A17 and there other Hi-Res players.  The S-Master amplifier is a class D Amplifier.  A Class D amplifier is pure digital (no analog components).  The advantages of a Class D amplifier are efficiency, low heat and long battery life and compact design.  This is why the NWZ-A17 has much better battery life than other Hi-Res players. It also why the Sony unit is so compact. 

You can't really make a pure digital amplifier sound warm (needs analog components) which is why the sound of NWZ-A17 is considered clear and analytical.  

There are disadvantages however, the main one being interference and noise.  People who use sensitive IEM's with this unit often complain about hiss which is generated by the class D amplifier circuitry.  Another disadvantage is that Class D amplifiers have a low damping factor. Damping factor is the ability of the amplifier to control the movement of the diaphragm of the driver.  Thus the sound you hear will likely very quite a bit from headphone to headphone depending on the drivers used in the headphones.

Class D amplifiers don't scale very well making it difficult to put a decent powered amp in a unit as small as the A17. A more powerful amp would require a larger unit size and a more complex and expensive design.   

While Sony has done a lot over the years to mitigate the disadvantages of the Class D amplifier as have other electronics manufacturers not all of them can be eliminated.  Class D amplifiers are now used in all compact electronic devices like smart phones and tablets.  Before class D amplifiers came along most smaller electronic devices used Class A/B amplifiers which are larger and quite a bit less efficient .  A lot more power is lost to heat and thus a bigger battery with less battery life would have to be used.  The advantage or disadvantage depending on your preference is a warmer sound.  The other advantage seems to clearly be higher power output.  I can't say for sure what other DAP manufacturers are using for their amplifiers but it is unlikely warmer sounding players are using pure Class D amplifiers.  It is apparently very hard to build class D amplifier that works well but Sony with its vast experience seems to have done a very good job

Even the soon to be released NWZ-X2 at $1200.00 which uses the same S-Master amplifier technologies has a rated power output of only 10mw per channel.  Not exactly what you would expect from such an expensive player.  But Sony seems to have clearly decided to sacrifice power for battery life.  Perhaps in the hope that people will feel the pull towards buying one of their digital amps.

Some people like the clearer more analytical sound of the NWZ-A17 vs the warmer sound of the Fiio players.  If you want the advantages of the NWZ-A17 in terms of battery life and compact size, UI etc.. and the warmer sound of a Fiio then pairing the NWZ-A17 with a Fiio amp could give you the best of both worlds.  I have the relatively new Fiio E11K which is not considered a warm sounding amp but  it does give my A17 a slightly warmer sound.  A better pairing for warmth might be the E12 which is said to have a warmer sound than the newer E11K.  There are likely amps from other manufacturers that are even warmer sounding.

I am sure other users with more amplifier knowledge could explain this stuff better. But after reading up on class D amplifiers I think I made a good choice in getting an external amplifier.

Great i learned a lot for ur post, and i think i will buy the a 17 with a pair of fidelio x2 (that i heard are on the warm.side and easy to drive so they might make a good match) i will keep reading to make my final desition next week.

 

[Mmet]

@fish1050 i think it is a wise decision from sony to prioritize  the battery life over maxing the output power ... because for easily driven iems and headphones its power is very sufficient ... if you have hard to drive TOTL headphones NO PLAYER will be enough for them you will end getting portable or a desktop amp whether with the sony walkman or even A&K ,fiio ,hifiman