There is quite noticeable sibilance at the start , but it wears off during longer burn in. My Denons have about 600 hours head time and I notice very rarely any sibilance at all now. Usually it comes from people who have bad enunciation.
Review: Denon D2000
- Thread starter pataburd
- Start date
Tiemen
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Depends on the recording.
If there's sibilance on the recording, the D2000 shows no mercy.
But they don't exaggerate sibilance like my Beyerdyamic DT770 and DT990 did.
I think the Denon is on par with the Sennheiser HD580 regarding sibilance, wich I found more sibilant than expected.
| Originally Posted by ast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any direct comparison between D2000 and DT880? What about sibilance that I read from some D2000 owners? |
Depends on the recording.
If there's sibilance on the recording, the D2000 shows no mercy.
But they don't exaggerate sibilance like my Beyerdyamic DT770 and DT990 did.
I think the Denon is on par with the Sennheiser HD580 regarding sibilance, wich I found more sibilant than expected.
Cool_Torpedo
1000+ Head-Fier
Quote:
Possibly the one to blame for excessive -or more than expected- sibilance using the HD580 is your X-Cans V3 or sources.
Rgrds
| Originally Posted by Tiemen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Depends on the recording. If there's sibilance on the recording, the D2000 shows no mercy. But they don't exaggerate sibilance like my Beyerdyamic DT770 and DT990 did. I think the Denon is on par with the Sennheiser HD580 regarding sibilance, wich I found more sibilant than expected. |
Possibly the one to blame for excessive -or more than expected- sibilance using the HD580 is your X-Cans V3 or sources.
Rgrds
arteom
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Agree with cool torpedo.
I had previously thought sibilance to be a trait of headphones, but other parts of your system can contribute. Running off a x-can v8 the denons were pretty smooth, but still somewhat sibilant. Very much tolerable, but it was still there. I changed the tubes to a set of siemens (not cca) and then to a set of tesla with rhodium pins and the tesla's took the sibilance away. For some reason I had thought I would prefer the siemens, but was really surprised by the tesla tubes. So check your system.
I had previously thought sibilance to be a trait of headphones, but other parts of your system can contribute. Running off a x-can v8 the denons were pretty smooth, but still somewhat sibilant. Very much tolerable, but it was still there. I changed the tubes to a set of siemens (not cca) and then to a set of tesla with rhodium pins and the tesla's took the sibilance away. For some reason I had thought I would prefer the siemens, but was really surprised by the tesla tubes. So check your system.
Tiemen
Headphoneus Supremus
deleted, post was OT (afraid of being thread hijacking)
The original post was:
I have my reservations about the X-can.
For that reason I changed already the stock tubes for Electro Harmonix 6922 tubes. A hifi shop recommended those.
But the sibilance is/was still there.
BTW: also out of my Denon pre-amp headphone socket.
Why is the V3 the reason for hearing more sibilance?
Just curious.
And a recommendation for an amp with lesser sibilance would be much appreciated too.
The original post was:
I have my reservations about the X-can.
For that reason I changed already the stock tubes for Electro Harmonix 6922 tubes. A hifi shop recommended those.
But the sibilance is/was still there.
BTW: also out of my Denon pre-amp headphone socket.
Why is the V3 the reason for hearing more sibilance?
Just curious.
And a recommendation for an amp with lesser sibilance would be much appreciated too.
Cool_Torpedo
1000+ Head-Fier
Quote:
IME sibilance on recordings that aren't too close miked or aren't sibilant "per se" on many rigs (I'm supposing you're using uncompressed files or a redbook CD), can be an effect of either headphones, amplification or sources, and to a lesser extent wires. It's difficult to spot the culprit, but in this case, for being an user of the HD600 for almost 10 years, I'd say the ones to blame are the amp or the sources. I used the X-Cans V3 with my sources for some time. It's not an specially sibilant amp with the stock tubes (mine came with some Philips IIRC) but it's not smooth and resolving either. On X-Cans (I own the V2 and the V3 I tried was a friend's) the role of the tubes isn't as noticeable as if it were a trully hybrid amp or a tube amp. The X-Cans have an "undertermined" role for the tubes, since they're not the output power section, not really a preamp section either, they're probably some sort of buffer in between the first section and the power stage, which is SS. I think this SS output stage is the one to blame for the somehow unrefined and a bit harsh tone of the X-Cans. IMHO the V3 is still a bit harsher than the V2, but some people understand that as more detail, so go figure.
On the other hand EH tubes aren't specially smooth in the treble (even worse if they're not the "gold" type), so they can worsen a sibilance problem. I'd try some JJ E88CC or JAN-Philips/Sylvania if you want to keep cost sensible and not going for expensive NOS alternatives. If this doesn't fix the problem a bit, and your wires are already decent, then trying another amp wouldn't hurt, but I really mean "trying" not buying blindly. Maybe a Ray Samuels or Meier is an interesting option in your setup.
HD600 are quite neutral tonally and pretty transparent too, if I were to master any recording, these ones with the K701 among the ones I own, would be the ones I'd choose for the job, mostly for being the less colored of them. They're not "built-in" sibilant, but will reveal the sibilance in some recordings. If most recordings sound sibilant, then either you listen to much bad mastered/recorded pop-rock, or the amp/source are exaggerating that sound feature, which is very common for the fact that today's audio preference for extreme detail, tend to produce harsh and falsely "airy" sounding devices.
Rgrds
| Originally Posted by Tiemen /img/forum/go_quote.gif deleted, post was OT |
IME sibilance on recordings that aren't too close miked or aren't sibilant "per se" on many rigs (I'm supposing you're using uncompressed files or a redbook CD), can be an effect of either headphones, amplification or sources, and to a lesser extent wires. It's difficult to spot the culprit, but in this case, for being an user of the HD600 for almost 10 years, I'd say the ones to blame are the amp or the sources. I used the X-Cans V3 with my sources for some time. It's not an specially sibilant amp with the stock tubes (mine came with some Philips IIRC) but it's not smooth and resolving either. On X-Cans (I own the V2 and the V3 I tried was a friend's) the role of the tubes isn't as noticeable as if it were a trully hybrid amp or a tube amp. The X-Cans have an "undertermined" role for the tubes, since they're not the output power section, not really a preamp section either, they're probably some sort of buffer in between the first section and the power stage, which is SS. I think this SS output stage is the one to blame for the somehow unrefined and a bit harsh tone of the X-Cans. IMHO the V3 is still a bit harsher than the V2, but some people understand that as more detail, so go figure.
On the other hand EH tubes aren't specially smooth in the treble (even worse if they're not the "gold" type), so they can worsen a sibilance problem. I'd try some JJ E88CC or JAN-Philips/Sylvania if you want to keep cost sensible and not going for expensive NOS alternatives. If this doesn't fix the problem a bit, and your wires are already decent, then trying another amp wouldn't hurt, but I really mean "trying" not buying blindly. Maybe a Ray Samuels or Meier is an interesting option in your setup.
HD600 are quite neutral tonally and pretty transparent too, if I were to master any recording, these ones with the K701 among the ones I own, would be the ones I'd choose for the job, mostly for being the less colored of them. They're not "built-in" sibilant, but will reveal the sibilance in some recordings. If most recordings sound sibilant, then either you listen to much bad mastered/recorded pop-rock, or the amp/source are exaggerating that sound feature, which is very common for the fact that today's audio preference for extreme detail, tend to produce harsh and falsely "airy" sounding devices.
Rgrds
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
To be honest, I've never heard a sibilant tendency in the D2000; quite the contrary, the Denon's highs are smooth and detailed, even liquidy--especially with the Bada PH-12 and the right tubes. With ill-matched tubes, the D2000 can accentuate sibilance, but 99% of the time it's sibilance already inherent in the recording/source, IMHE. : )
I can only speak for the DT880/2003, which had treble extension and air to spare (a lovely sounding set of cans), but I don't recall them being sibilant, either, just beautifully and almost endlessly reaching and reproducing the highest highs.
D2000 owners who perceive an overly sibilant presentation should look elsewhere along the audio chain, IMHE, and as Cool Torpedo alluded to earlier. : )
Funny thing, component compatibility, my D2000 sound better in many respects (more open, lifelike and controlled) through a Walkman run into the AUX of a 15-year old JVC mini component sytem than through the RAM-modded HD841/Denon AVR-1905! With the Darkvoice, the D2000 are a little tricky to get right, but with the Sylvania VT-116A and Mullard 6080 tubes the Denon sound incredible. With the Bada, the D2000 are generally more agreeable to a greater number of tube configurations.
Given that, another quality I've come to really appreciate with the D2000 is their responsiveness to tube changes, helping me hear the amp(s) and the tubes better than just about every other set of headphones I've tried to date.
Go figure! : )
| Originally Posted by ast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any direct comparison between D2000 and DT880? What about sibilance that I read from some D2000 owners? |
To be honest, I've never heard a sibilant tendency in the D2000; quite the contrary, the Denon's highs are smooth and detailed, even liquidy--especially with the Bada PH-12 and the right tubes. With ill-matched tubes, the D2000 can accentuate sibilance, but 99% of the time it's sibilance already inherent in the recording/source, IMHE. : )
I can only speak for the DT880/2003, which had treble extension and air to spare (a lovely sounding set of cans), but I don't recall them being sibilant, either, just beautifully and almost endlessly reaching and reproducing the highest highs.
D2000 owners who perceive an overly sibilant presentation should look elsewhere along the audio chain, IMHE, and as Cool Torpedo alluded to earlier. : )
Funny thing, component compatibility, my D2000 sound better in many respects (more open, lifelike and controlled) through a Walkman run into the AUX of a 15-year old JVC mini component sytem than through the RAM-modded HD841/Denon AVR-1905! With the Darkvoice, the D2000 are a little tricky to get right, but with the Sylvania VT-116A and Mullard 6080 tubes the Denon sound incredible. With the Bada, the D2000 are generally more agreeable to a greater number of tube configurations.
Given that, another quality I've come to really appreciate with the D2000 is their responsiveness to tube changes, helping me hear the amp(s) and the tubes better than just about every other set of headphones I've tried to date.
Go figure! : )
mypasswordis
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Would trying out the D5000, and possibly later the D7000, be part of your long-term goals? Just curious.
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
MPI,
Yes, God willing! Although should the D5000 disappoint (LOL), I may not make the ascent for the D7000. I'm fighting the urge to pick up the D5000 via Provantage, but the wait time is bothersome.
: )
PAB
| Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would trying out the D5000, and possibly later the D7000, be part of your long-term goals? Just curious. |
MPI,
Yes, God willing! Although should the D5000 disappoint (LOL), I may not make the ascent for the D7000. I'm fighting the urge to pick up the D5000 via Provantage, but the wait time is bothersome.
: )
PAB
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Just listened to Bob James, Hi-Fi SACD w/RAM HD-841 [DakiOm HR/R203]-->Denon AVR 1905 [DakiOm F203]-->D2000. Bass was deep and powerful w/no hint of slop or boominess to speak of.
richierich
500+ Head-Fier
lol I've never bobbed my head or tapped my feet this much before getting the D2000s. Nice!
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Just ordered the D5000 from Provanatage. Hopefully, they'll be here in a few weeks. : )
Tapiozona
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Don't say that. You're the one who convinced me to get the D2000's and now you're already moving on. I wont upgrade. I dont care how good they are and how much you liike them. I will be happy with what i have. I will not listen to expensive advise again.
At least not until next month.
At least not until next month.
inthecup
500+ Head-Fier
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Quote:
Never say Never !!!!!!!!
| Originally Posted by Tapiozona /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't say that. You're the one who convinced me to get the D2000's and now you're already moving on. I wont upgrade. I dont care how good they are and how much you liike them. I will be happy with what i have. I will not listen to expensive advise again. At least not until next month. |
Never say Never !!!!!!!!
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Tap,
The plan is to a/b the D5000 v. D2000 stock. I have a feeling, based on what I've read about the D5000, that I'll prefer the D2000 anyway. Afterward, I would like to get the D2000 APS V3 recabled and a/b again against the stock D5000. It's just that I had some funds freed up and decided to give the D5000 a listen (it was either the D5000 or the ATH-W1000 for the a/b). : )
BTW, I do not intend to be "moving on" past the D2000 in favor of the D5000. For the money, the D2000 are where it's at as far as I'm concerned.
At least until next month. : )
PAB
| Originally Posted by Tapiozona /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't say that. You're the one who convinced me to get the D2000's and now you're already moving on. I wont upgrade. I dont care how good they are and how much you liike them. I will be happy with what i have. I will not listen to expensive advise again. At least not until next month. |
Tap,
The plan is to a/b the D5000 v. D2000 stock. I have a feeling, based on what I've read about the D5000, that I'll prefer the D2000 anyway. Afterward, I would like to get the D2000 APS V3 recabled and a/b again against the stock D5000. It's just that I had some funds freed up and decided to give the D5000 a listen (it was either the D5000 or the ATH-W1000 for the a/b). : )
BTW, I do not intend to be "moving on" past the D2000 in favor of the D5000. For the money, the D2000 are where it's at as far as I'm concerned.
At least until next month. : )
PAB
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