[amphead]

Pabbi, another update on the bad board. I removed the burnt resistor at RB2R and removed RB10R, which had a solder accumulation at the top/ground plane. Dremeled away the pads on the top for those resistors, due to the shorting. Found shorts at QB4R and QB1R on single pins with accumulation on the ground plane. I have to remove those QBs and dremel those pads off. Back to dremel surgery.

 

[MrMajestic2]

Just finished up my second MAX. Worked straight away with just a bias tuning needed

Everything is from the standard BOM except the 0.47uf VitaminQs. It sounds awesome and the bass is very powerful, which I wasnt expecting.

 

[ruZZ.il]

Good stuff going on

 

[amphead]

Pabbi, the QB8R DB (2SC3422) is bad, so I wouldn't trust the DBs in the right channel. I didn't find a replacement for that in the parts that were sent, so I would need replacements there. Thanks

MrMajestic2, thats some nice work! How does it sound?

 

[eddiewalker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMajestic2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just finished up my second MAX. Worked straight away with just a bias tuning needed (IMG) Everything is from the standard BOM except the 0.47uf VitaminQs. It sounds awesome and the bass is very powerful, which I wasnt expecting.

What's that you used to lift up the pot? I've been trying to find an elegant way to give mine a tiny bit of height so the knob will land vertically centered on the front panel.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amphead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pabbi, the QB8R DB (2SC3422) is bad, so I wouldn't trust the DBs in the right channel. I didn't find a replacement for that in the parts that were sent, so I would need replacements there. Thanks

Boy. I should have quit while I was behind... how humiliating I could screw this up so bad.

So, total recap of what is needed: Some 2sc3422 & 2sc1359 - any resistors?

I am indebted to Ron for helping me on this - absolute shame it has come to this. I promise, to all, this is my last DIY.

 

[ruZZ.il]

You'll be back

 

[MrMajestic2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amphead /img/forum/go_quote.gif MrMajestic2, thats some nice work! How does it sound?

Thanks, Im pretty happy with it. Was kind of tricky to figure out how to mount the VitaminsQs though.It sounds great, much better than I expected compared to my other MAX with boutique parts. I didnt listen for very long last night, but it has a very pleasant sound with plenty of bass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiewalker /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's that you used to lift up the pot? I've been trying to find an elegant way to give mine a tiny bit of height so the knob will land vertically centered on the front panel.

Its just sitting on header pins with socket strips soldered on the pot. Its just a temporary thing until I get the casing done. It will then be connected with wires. Im not using a Hammond case so I cant have the pot soldered on the board. I f you just want to raise it a little bit then the legs on the pot will fit in to socket strips directly. I used header pins on the board side so I couldnt do that.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMajestic2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, Im pretty happy with it. Was kind of tricky to figure out how to mount the VitaminsQs though.It sounds great, much better than I expected compared to my other MAX with boutique parts. I didnt listen for very long last night, but it has a very pleasant sound with plenty of bass.</snip>

Nice work! You've removed much of my guilt after seeing that you somehow figured out how to fit those VitQ's in.

This sort of answers/confirms a few things we're learning:
1. What you describe is supposed to be what a MAX sounds like. It's always sounded like that with ES's and plain ol' Wimas.

2. Dsavitsk was right about the VitQ's (natch!) and contrary to conventional wisdom, they must be very, very flat and neutral in frequency response. This is because of the findings lately about the cathode bypass-bypass cap. Actually, the bass is always there and has always been there. The trick is to keep the cathode bypass caps from destroying it.

I think a typical boutique film cap (translated: exagerrated mids, with high and low rolloff) does destroy the bass - when placed in that very sensitive cathode bypass position.

3. This leads to your experience with your Black Gate MAX. Try removing those little 0.47 bypasses - it may sound much better and the bass may start to approach the other one. Just a guess, but it may be that the little one overwhelms the 1000uf in that cathode bypass position. On the other hand, it's quite possible that bypassing with the little one on the output has no effect at all.

This may explain why ruZZ.il noticed no difference with the film bypasses connected or disconnected - he may have been doing this at the output, instead of that uber-sensitive cathode bypass position. That's just a guess, though.

Anyway, glad you've discovered the true sound of the MAX!!

 

[amphead]

Pabbi, at least one set of 2sc3422 & 2sc1359, but it would be a good idea for 2 sets. As far as you were saying, about this being your last diy, you could build a MAX anytime you want, once you watch out for solder dribbling from the back side of the board, to the fronts side. Just by being stingy with the amount of solder, you would have been up and running from what you have done so far, so no big deal. You can definitely build another Max yourself, just by being stingy with the solder.

 

[MrMajestic2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3. This leads to your experience with your Black Gate MAX. Try removing those little 0.47 bypasses - it may sound much better and the bass may start to approach the other one. Just a guess, but it may be that the little one overwhelms the 1000uf in that cathode bypass position. On the other hand, it's quite possible that bypassing with the little one on the output has no effect at all. This may explain why ruZZ.il noticed no difference with the film bypasses connected or disconnected - he may have been doing this at the output, instead of that uber-sensitive cathode bypass position. That's just a guess, though. Anyway, glad you've discovered the true sound of the MAX!!

The first thing I will do is remove the Kiwames in the RB14 position. I think that veils the sound a lot. But I didnt have a problem with my Black Gates after I changed the tubes. I was getting what I would call distortion before that, probably due to the tubes not being burned in.

 

[fordgtlover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMajestic2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, Im pretty happy with it. Was kind of tricky to figure out how to mount the VitaminsQs though.It sounds great, much better than I expected compared to my other MAX with boutique parts. I didnt listen for very long last night, but it has a very pleasant sound with plenty of bass.

Yep... I found that the only boutique part that actually made a positive difference is the C8 bypass cap. As I recently stated, I found that the Elna Silmics in CA2/7 were much less pleasant than the Panasonic FMs, and there was no difference between using the WIMA and a PIO in CA9

I am currently trying to decide whether I like the little russian K42 PIO or the Vit Q better in CA8 - this really is a last 1% issue.

Tomb has been absolutely correct the whole time on the issue of using boutique parts in the Millet MAX - Oh, why didn't we listen to you tomb (just joking).

I have really enjoyed rolling various parts through mine.

 

[ruZZ.il]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif This may explain why ruZZ.il noticed no difference with the film bypasses connected or disconnected - he may have been doing this at the output, instead of that uber-sensitive cathode bypass position. That's just a guess, though.

I was playing with both bypasses. Neither one, the other, or both disconnected had any observable effect at the time. These were sonicap Gen II's bypassing BGs.

I'm not sure if I stated this then, but the amp had only been on for about 10 minutes before I started playing around, for about 15 minutes, so the lack of enough heat in the tubes may have contributed to a lesser/harder to observe difference, but still indicates that its not a big one. I may re-do this with some hotties.

I'm not yet able to state that the BG's wouldn't benefit by a wima or vitQ in either position yet (yet, but I just shared some vit Q's with adam that I'll get around to soon

), just that the BG's seem hard to beat by themselves, and bypassing with gen II's had little to no effect observable by me (ill or good, ymmv).

on another note, I found myself a decent bargain on a pretty old.. oscilloscope

. this could potentially keep me busy if I weren't already busy, but I'm certain to play around sometime, and hopefuly see things and try correlate them to what I hear. I've also got a bunch of mini^3s and Alien DACs waiting to be built. I put together a mini^3 for myself and got to listen quiet a bit.. with my 40ohm cans, it contends quiet nicely with my pimped out PIMETA. the differences are little, but there. not too easy to pinpoint so quickly, so I'll do some extensive A/Bing sometime

For one, its standard bass response is punchier than the 8610s in my pimeta, but I got a bass boost there, so it compensates well

one of them also gave me an ever so slight feeling of being in a larger room. I still like my pimeta more, but marginally. I ended up traveling with the mini though cause, well, its smaller, sleeker, and looks less like a bomb. It's also new, and almost matches my girlfriends one

I've got my pimeta with me for the w.end though.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruZZ.il /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was playing with both bypasses. Neither one, the other, or both disconnected had any observable effect at the time. These were sonicap Gen II's bypassing BGs.

OK - I thought perhaps you had just tried it with the outputs. My bad - thanks for the correction.

Your MAX may be an anomaly, though, because if you recall, we had another BG user complain about it sounding awful with BG's until he removed the Sonicaps.

Quote:

I'm not sure if I stated this then, but the amp had only been on for about 10 minutes before I started playing around, for about 15 minutes, so the lack of enough heat in the tubes may have contributed to a lesser/harder to observe difference, but still indicates that its not a big one. I may re-do this with some hotties.

No, you didn't start this. I observed a horrible effect with the Sonicap in the cathode bypass spot myself - with lowly ES's. That's what started this.

Quote:

I'm not yet able to state that the BG's wouldn't benefit by a wima or vitQ in either position yet (yet, but I just shared some vit Q's with adam that I'll get around to soon ), just that the BG's seem hard to beat by themselves, and bypassing with gen II's had little to no effect observable by me (ill or good, ymmv).

Yes, we agree on your first statement. My thought (I'll find out soon) is that the BG's shouldn't be bypassed, period.

I believe when Dsavitsk first mentioned that he would always bypass - even BG's - he was speaking in a theoretical sense, and assuming that one would find the proper cap (translated: uber-expensive, flat, and pristine). For instance, I found a statement where the Soniccraft people recommended nothing but Multicap RTX for bypassing BG's, a polystyrene film cap that sounds very different (flat and peaky) from most boutique film caps. Before that, I was recommending the standard practice with BG's: don't bypass them.

The MAX's output caps - when something other than BG's - seem to follow the accepted practice - very often, a reasonable boutique film cap will add a desireable affect to the sound, including a Sonicap GEN II (especially!). However, and this is the important thing - I don't think testing or bypass experience applies in that cathode bypass position. It's not a coupling application and is just not the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMajestic2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The first thing I will do is remove the Kiwames in the RB14 position. I think that veils the sound a lot. But I didnt have a problem with my Black Gates after I changed the tubes. I was getting what I would call distortion before that, probably due to the tubes not being burned in.

I understand, but I would still pull them out of the CA9 position (cathode bypass) and just see if that sounds better. I could be wrong, but I think it will.

We are in agreement with the Kiwames, depending on how big they are. 22ohm or less probably won't make much of a difference either way, but I could be wrong.

 

[ruZZ.il]

hehe no, I mean if I'd stated that the little experiment I did wasn't with properly warmed up tubes. I was driven to experiment by the previous statements by you, and other users BG experience to begin with. meanwhile, its probably me being more of an anomaly than there being no difference, since I know these things have an effect, some effect. I'll have to play around a lot more before I can start pinpointing parts..