[astrostar59]

 
The MSB Analog DAC does not perform any internal upsampling as far as I am aware. I am using HQ Player to perform upsampling with filters etc to PCM 384 or DSD 256. So yes, this DAC will play native Redbook if that is how your settings are within whatever program you use (HQP, Foobar, JRiver etc).

How is the MSB with native Redbook 44.1, I found it sounds best as is i.e. no messing. I thought the point in an R-2R was digital to voltage bit perfect?

 

[negura]

 
No I don't have any native DSD content, but I have been upsampling to DSD on a regular basis. Upsampling to DSD seems to give better space, stage and air, more analog-like, but possibly at slight expense of bass as mentioned (but that could be HQP filter itself rather than a problem with DSD per se). Upsampling to PCM 384 (i.e. DXD format) gives similar benefits to DSD.

 
I understand. I might try that. The only thing that's a bit concerning is expense of bass. That's one of the area I wouldn't want sacrificed, even if very slight.

 

[yates7592]

   
I understand. I might try that. The only thing that's a bit concerning is expense of bass. That's one of the area I wouldn't want sacrificed, even if very slight.

Try it and see what you think. It might be my cloth ears telling stories rather than absolute truth. I just feel from admittedly limited listening time that DXD gives the "DSD sound" with all of the bass. I've never heard anybody else remark about any loss of bass, even slight, in HQP with DSD so it could well be just me.

 

[astrostar59]

I read the MSB manual pdf on the MSB website. On a Mac if you set AudioMidi to sample rate 44.1 the MSB Analogue will play bit perfect 44.1 RedBook Horrah!. This to me is the whole point of an R-2R DAC. Yes the MSB can play bit perfect higher up than 44.1 but at some point it will start to up sample to get there. Basically try it and see. But it looks like once Audiomidi is set at 44.1 you are done for RedBook files.
 
If you are using iTunes (hope not) it will play at the resident sample rate of that file. In Audirvana+ you can set the sample rate as 'no up sampling'.
 
If both the computer and the MSB play at 44.1 bit perfect, and Audirvana+ is set to not up sample, and not be used as a volume control, then you will be at the maximum quality setting possible both in and out of the system (if you have the Quad USB module).
 
On Windows you download a driver and then FooBar or whatever plays at the native resolution of the files (if set that way in FooBar).
IMO there is NO reason to upsample anything. It doesn't add any new information, indeed it is guessing what is missing.
 
I think it is possible with the MSB to turn of the filter as well?
 
Nice DAC indeed.

 

[yates7592]

I always thought that the point of upsampling was not to add what is missing, but that it improves the accuracy and quality of the digital to analog conversion process?

 

[David1961]

When I got the K-01 in 2011, I did so to use it just with CD's, in fact if Julian ( astrostar59 ) hadn't suggested getting a MacMini and using the K-01's DAC, I'd have probably only used that source for playing CD's, however because of the convenience using the MacMini / K-01's DAC, to which I also use an iPad as remote control, I'm using the three a lot more than CD's.

The K-01 uses Delta-Sigma, but I've read the difference between R-2R and Delta-Sigma , and a R-2R DAC looks to be the obvious choice.

Because I'm now not listening to CD's that much, I feel my next audio piece is going to be a R-2R DAC.

I've seen three R-2R DAC's one being the TotalDAC d1, but with it having two units, that's something I'm not interested in, so the other two are the MSB Analog, and Trinity.

The Trinity isn't cheap and would take me a few years to save the money, and that's including hoping to get a good price for the K-01.
Getting a MSB Analog would take a lot sooner, but I much prefer the look of the Trinity and apparently it's one of the best DAC's available.
I'll hopefully get to audition both the MSB Analog and Trinity at sometime, then take it from there.


P.S. I know the MSB Analog has separate power units, but one is more or less the exact size as the DAC, which the DAC sits on-top of, and if I decided to get the MSB Analog, then that's the power unit I'd get.

 

[karlgerman]

"The K-01 uses Delta-Sigma, but I've read the difference between R-2R and Delta-Sigma , and a R-2R DAC looks to be the obvious choice."
Actually at this r2r hype is going on, i would do the same.
 
But how its build (great power supply) and how it sounds and the capability to modify the sounding, ha, i know why i bought a ESOTERIC DAC.
Had the Metrum first but in my system the D-02 is doing a great job. Will see what´s the difference to a totaldac soon.

 

[David1961]

 Hi karlgerman,
 
As the D-02 will be, the K-01 [ IMO ]  is an incredible piece of audio equipment in every-way, but the fact I'm now hardly using CD's, and that I'm thinking towards getting a R-2R DAC, aren't the main reasons why I'll be changing the K-01,  [ whether that'll be sooner or later ]  the main reason is it weighs around 33kg.
When I clean my audio rack and everything on it, I obviously remove all that gear, which at the moment isn't a problem, however I'm not getting any younger, and there will come a time when I'll struggle to remove the K-01, but with say a MSB Analog or Trinity I won't.

 

[David1961]

I've been listening to my 009/BHSE with the K-01 a lot of today, and with what I heard I won't be letting that source go.
I will however when I can't lift it anymore, have it in a position where I don't have to lift it.

I'm having alterations done to my home which part is adding a new room, so when I have the spare cash for a R2R DAC, I'll put the K-01 in that new room and have a second headphone system.

 

[astrostar59]

  I always thought that the point of upsampling was not to add what is missing, but that it improves the accuracy and quality of the digital to analog conversion process?

That was one of the stories us punters was force fed. That and the fact 44.1 was staircase wave shaped, so will sound bad. That idea and the dreaded brick wall filter, and the circuits that were designed to guess what was 'missing'. Maybe why many miss the 'analogue' sound?
 
Of course, there are many parts to the story, and not all NOS DACs are good as are pre-amplifiers and speakers. And there are many DS DACs that are great if very well designed and investment in the amplifier and input sections as well as the chip set. 
 
My take on R-2R is you forget the hifi, and listen to the music. To me it is less 'hifi' less processed, detailed and realistic but not over the top. In a shortish demo, many might choose a DS DAC to an R-2R. But in a longer session or home loan, to me an R-2R wins. 
 
Enough of my babbling, try and hear an R-2R for yourself. Here is some more info that explains a lot better:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum/2.html
 
There is tons more info on the web about the reasons why over sampling was the path the manufacturers took. Look out for articles on filter design and how flawed it is sonically. Many NOS DAC manufacturers believe that the removal of this filter further gets to the integrity of the source.

 

[negura]

Gents, the Theta V A has a classic R2R sound (with a couple of twists). The Schiit Yggdrasil is more like that too. The MSB Analog (w.Quad/latest firmware) is not like that. It's beyond the resolution of the best D/S or R2R DACs I have heard and it's quite analytical for an R2R DAC. It has only a very controlled amount of R2R love. This is not a romantic sounding DAC and its resolving prowess is accompanied by exceptional macro-dynamic range, amazing clarity, pin-point precise imaging and expansive sounstage. This DAC can byte ones head off, when called for (imo in a good way), or can be very punishing of bad recordings. It is NOT nice and quite neutral sounding too. But I would not have it otherwise.
 
For a nice sounding DAC I recommend the Theta V A or Schiit Yggdrasil. I don't want to discourage anyone from hearing the MSB Analog, because as I said, it is the best DAC I've heard so far. Period. It's technical performance is facilitating the recording qualities to come to life (more so than on lesser DACs). Just trying to set expectations right.
 
The Analog is the entry level DAC to the MSB range... so I am very puzzled. If the baby DAC does this, what else is out there? To answer it, I am looking to get a full Signature V stack at home.

 

[yates7592]

Astrostar - thanks for the info and link will make nice bedtime reading.

 

[Yoga]

  The Analog is the entry level DAC to the MSB range... so I am very puzzled. If the baby DAC does this, what else is out there? To answer it, I am looking to get a full Signature V stack at home.

 
Your DAC budget has grown a tad :¬)

 

[dan.gheorghe]

  Gents, the Theta V A has a classic R2R sound (with a couple of twists). The Schiit Yggdrasil is more like that too. The MSB Analog (w.Quad/latest firmware) is not like that. It's beyond the resolution of the best D/S or R2R DACs I have heard and it's quite analytical for an R2R DAC. It has only a very controlled amount of R2R love. This is not a romantic sounding DAC and its resolving prowess is accompanied by exceptional macro-dynamic range, amazing clarity, pin-point precise imaging and expansive sounstage. This DAC can byte ones head off, when called for (imo in a good way), or can be very punishing of bad recordings. It is NOT nice and quite neutral sounding too. But I would not have it otherwise.
 
For a nice sounding DAC I recommend the Theta V A or Schiit Yggdrasil. I don't want to discourage anyone from hearing the MSB Analog, because as I said, it is the best DAC I've heard so far. Period. It's technical performance is facilitating the recording qualities to come to life (more so than on lesser DACs). Just trying to set expectations right.
 
The Analog is the entry level DAC to the MSB range... so I am very puzzled. If the baby DAC does this, what else is out there? To answer it, I am looking to get a full Signature V stack at home.

 
Totally agree to that. As for the last part with Signature V...Good luck with that man!

 

[negura]

   
Your DAC budget has grown a tad :¬)

 
My budget hopes the Signature V sucks. 
 
If not, what Dan said. =)