[Icenine2]

  Is it like this?
 

 
When I buy new gear is costs me double i.e. same money goes to the wife. There are some hifi dealers who do 'fake' invoices.....

The first great DAC I bought was 20 years ago: a Proceed CDD/DAP combo that I "thought" I'd get by the wife.  She wandered in the listening room and spotted it.........."how much did that cost.........?"  I replied 5 thinking she'd go with $500 but ..........."$5,000...."  A Cartier ladies watch later and I was OK again.  Now with two kids that would be impossible!

 

[negura]

I like pics. Another cake layer has been added for the audition (the UMT via I2S). I can no longer lift the cake.
 

 
Q: While on the topic of memes, a friend of mine inquired if this is any better than say... some other MSB DAC I recently reviewed, with the pictured being pretty much a stock Signature 5 stack with a transport. (Not the uber upgraded version of the same, that is)
 
 
A: The first thought that came to mind to answer this.
 

 

[negura]

And the delivery guy brought some more cake. This is the Total DAC A1, now discontinued aka the little brother.
 

 

[astrostar59]

  And the delivery guy brought some more cake. This is the Total DAC A1, now discontinued aka the little brother.
 
 

This is going to be interesting. Do you have the Analogue there as well?
The MSB Analogue is under £10K for the base and USB Quad. The MSB V is £25K+ and with the transport £35+?
 
That takes that system into a different arena with other choices. I would be curious how much more the MSB V offers over the Analogue DAC. Not that I am saying MSB would have a 'house sound' but the Analogue is reported to be both very smooth in the treble yet still very detailed and having a wide sound stage. If it is indeed not so far behind the V then I am interested indeed.
 
The TotalDAC A1 needs a USB-SPDIF convertor, it that right? Not sure how it stacks to the current D1-Dual DAC like Arnauld has.
I am interested in the TotalDAC D1-Dual Tube Mk2. I am thinking the addition of the tubes may slant towards my sound preferences.
 
Eager to read your findings Negura!

 

[negura]

The total DAC A1 has a very simple rear:RCA and SPDIF. It is warming up and I am feeding it the best juice I have here. MSB Transport via Coax using the LAN input for the content. RCAs are Audioquest SKY into the Eddie Current.
 
http://www.totaldac.com/boitier_stereo.htm
 
I don't have the Analog here, but it is coming back next week.

 

[Sorrodje]

Glad to see my A1 is safe!

I'm afraid it will be spanked by such competitors........

 

[negura]

Glad to see my A1 is safe!

I'm afraid it will be spanked by such competitors........

 
I don't really expect I should be comparing it with the Signature 5 stack and like with the Yggdrasil, if it is not the case I won't. It's Theta VA vs TotalDAC A1 right now.
 
Btw - the MSB UMT transport (LAN input) sounds staggering. I am making plans to buy one, regardless what DAC I will end up with. I can't think of anything better to feed your Total DAC A1. 

 

[Greg121986]

I have experienced no better DAC than those produced by MSB. I listened to their Select DAC a few weeks ago while Larry and Vince were in town at my local dealer. It was extraordinary. An all out assault on what is currently possible and in my opinion, the unequivocal king of DAC technology. 
 
Call me crazy, but my LH Labs Geek Pulse is the only thing I've tried that makes me feel like I'm at an elementary level, but still near what I've heard from MSB. The LH Labs will suffice for me until I can get my hands on an Analog DAC or with any kind of luck, a DAC V. 

 

[Beolab]

Very interesting to read about your SQ findings btw the MSB V and the Analog!

I hope the Analog hold up, and the difference are more timing and resolution.

Does someone have any inside info if MSB are working in a Analog MkII or is it safe to place an order on a Analog this late in product life, or what is your estimation?

I e-mailed Jonathan Goodman at MSB with this question, but he said MSB did not have any planned upgrade for the Analog in near future, so i hope he talk straight up.

 

[negura]

Last I heard which was 2 months ago - MSB had no plans for a new Analog DAC.
 
The Signature V is simultaneously the most accurate, realistic and "musical" DAC I've heard. We had more than a few WOW moments at home with the stack (which did happen with the Analog DAC too) and I am really glad it's still here. I am trying to find time to compile all my notes into a lengthier impressions post. 

 

[astrostar59]

  Last I heard which was 2 months ago - MSB had no plans for a new Analog DAC.
 
The Signature V is simultaneously the most accurate, realistic and "musical" DAC I've heard. We had more than a few WOW moments at home with the stack (which did happen with the Analog DAC too) and I am really glad it's still here. I am trying to find time to compile all my notes into a lengthier impressions post. 

Hi Negura
So you bought the MSB Analogue? It is ion your profile, or are you still hovering over the Signature V?.
I was looking at that Analogue DAC as it is R-2R and looks well engineered.
 
Maybe David61 would be interested in your impressions. He is thinking an R-2R would be a jump over his K-01.
 
I have been upgrading bits in my Audio Note DAC 4.1 (kit) the last 2 months. It has surprised my just how much more it can give with better quality parts and better I/V transformers in particular.
I think I need tubes at the front of my system, as I have SS for both phones and speaker amps.
 
I'll post some photos in the R-2R discussion thread later.
 
So the aspects you have with the Theta i.e. some warmth and timbre / real sounding instruments, you also got that (and maybe more) in the Analogue. That DAC is quite a 'bargain' as regards MSB.

 

[negura]

 

 
The Theta V A is awesome. While it sounds really great, especially with a very good source such as the MSB transport, the DAC is limited by its 90s tech in what it can resolve. Still it's surprisingly accurate, engaging, rich and musical, even though a little bit coloured.
 
I presently own the Analog, but I am considering a next level up DAC after hearing the Signature V. Resolution does matter and it's amazing how much previously undiscovered information is to be found in those good old CDs. And it all works towards reconstructing reality. I also wonder what the Diamond V can do. But perhaps it is better I shouldn't try to find out.

 

[astrostar59]

Hi Negura
 
Yes I agree. I think what you get as you go up the ladder (in tech and quality parts, power supply and circuit design) is MORE of everything. The detail is just there to hear, like wearing new classes, you didn't notice stuff before. After my I/V transformer upgrade (new cost of those is £1800, I got them for half price as second hand) I can clearly hear different instruments and more 3D space. Also there is a surprising amount of extra detail in the lower registers, where before it was a foundation to the music, now it is as detailed as the treble regions. It makes the music really blast along, it is a drug, once you hear it, you have to have it.
 
On transports, I don't know about the MSB ones. I dropped my (good) CEC transports 3 years ago, and move over to Audirvana+ which in it's current version is miles better than the 1.4 version I had back then, which was about the same as my CDP. It is much better now IMO.
 
I have been working with a DAC/Amplifier designer recently, and as I learn how R-2R works and the best way to extract information from it, it is becoming clearer to me how important the amplifier sections and the power supplies are, as much as the digital board. Any injection of noise or hash in those areas infects the sound to a big degree.
 
I like the MSB gear, and respect them for being a leader in high resolution R-2R. I am all Redbook, and on limited budgets, so will stay with Audio Note kit DACs as I can then 'tailor' the sound to ensure my system from the front to back is balanced. For example, I swopped out the ECC82 Driver tube on my power supply to an NOS 1950s Mullard, and it had a huge effect, really bringing vocals out and detail but keeping the treble silky smooth, much better than any of the Sylvania or Russian tubes I tried. That tube is the driver tube, so in the power supply, so I can hear for myself how clean power is required for the final stage to sound correct, the best it can be.
 
Fascinating stuff.
 
Enjoy your Analogue. You might find that last bit of sound you want by rolling tubes in your amp? Just a thought, and cheaper....

 

[negura]

   

 
Well yes that is the other thing. The rest of the system including transport, amplifier and transducers all have to keep up. For example I am finding the more coloured transducers (like Audeze/HEK) do not do any favours to the huge investment in one of these DACs. They just take the DAC information and brush over parts of it. A bit redundant making such a huge investment in the source. The same goes for amping - I am ideally moving towards more neutral and less coloured actually.

 

[astrostar59]

   
Well yes that is the other thing. The rest of the system including transport, amplifier and transducers all have to keep up. For example I am finding the more coloured transducers (like Audeze/HEK) do not do any favours to the huge investment in one of these DACs. They just take the DAC information and brush over parts of it. A bit redundant making such a huge investment in the source. The same goes for amping - I am ideally moving towards more neutral and less coloured actually.

Yes, I totally agree. That is why I bought my DAC 4.1 as a kit. I knew stock it would be great but not exactly how I would want it, For example the in-house Audio Note caps, even the silver caps are slightly coloured. Now if that is designed in, fine, but if my amp and the 009 and speakers are also coloured, or lets say have an emphasis on anything, it could go the wrong way. Listen to so many recorded material, why is it too bright, too dull, saturated, or just flat? Because besides the limits in the technology of the studio and mikes, there is flaws in how accurate the studio monitors are and the skill (and hearing) of the mixing engineer. Besides these variances, I hear SO MANY mistakes and flaws, clicks and buzz, even echoes from the tape real (you get a slight shadow through the open spool on pre-80s master tapes). It is all fun though, and makes this hobby so involving.
 
I am NOT a pro studio producer, I was a DJ in the early 90's into Garage and Hip-Hop. But I have good hearing, and us audiophiles have that awareness and hopefully retain healthy ears. It is a skill, an awareness of timbre, the 'golden ears' gang Ha Ha. Like the sound (pun) of that.
 
Seriously, it can get very serious as regards money and time. I know some guys have blown half the house money on hifi and left the hobby. It need not be like that. It can (and is to me) a massive positive to ones life. But it needs careful thought and planning. Big money does not always equate to the 'best' sound for a particular system.
 
I guess, the only way to avoid such pitfalls, is buy an all one make system. Then we are trusting the manufacture with those decisions. But lets face it, not all manufacturers are great at DACs, Amps and Speakers, some are, most are not as in Linn. Ouch, I heard a terrible sound at the Cheshire show last year by a Linn system, and it cost 50K+. I listened for 60 seconds and knew it was really poor. You can probably guess where I sat the longest? Yes, in the Audio Note room.... on a 20K system, miles better IMO. And spend more with Audio Note, and it gets really amazingly good IMO. That DAC 5 Special.... it is built around the incredible M6 pre-amplifier which sounds incredible.