[Articnoise]

  Guys, guess what I have right besides me. That's right, a schiit yggdrasil. After the initial listening, I must say that negura is pretty spot on with his review.
 
While Yggy is an excellent DAC, MSB with the quad usb input seems to be in a completely different league.  And I have the stock power supply...

Full review and comparison coming soon.

 

I think that the recommendation is to burn it in or warm it up for like at least 1 week and some suggest a bit more – Just saying. 

 

[dan.gheorghe]

   

I think that the recommendation is to burn it in or warm it up for like at least 1 week and some suggest a bit more – Just saying. 

From what I know one week was necessary when it had no burn in. And even if there is improvement, I am quite skeptical it can make such a huge leap, but I am letting it warm up, to be sure it reaches its potential.
 
However, I found the sayings that Yggy makes all Msbs to "be mere toys" (even the higher ones that analog dac) to be highly inaccurate.
 
All these being said, I do love the sound of yggy and I think it has an excellent price / performance ratio.

 

[astrostar59]

  Woah, woah woah....
 
But I read on the internet that the Yggy was the best DAC on Earth, for everyone, at any price, regardless of synergy and personal preference.   
 
Who knew...
 
This is all too much for me.  I have to go eat some ice cream and contemplate. 

Ha Ha, that is not possible. Personal prefs, system synergy, components used, headphone used etc etc.
 
IMO (I have not heard the Yggy) most of this energy and positives from buyers is the R-2R. To me it is the way to go. There are good, great and of course poor implementations of R-2R, so you have a lot to try out to get the 'perfect DAC for YOU'.
 
The other thing to consider is how well the USB input is and the investment put into that by the manufacturer. Coming from using only USB sources I found that that makes a big difference to the sound, a good DAC can suddenly become a great DAC. The MSB with standard USB is still using the power in the cable, not good. Key is try things out see what works for you. Personally I prefer a DAC R-2R with tubes in it, but I also like the Metrum DACs, and would like to hear the MSB and Yggy. The increasing interest in R-2R is all good IMO.

 

[dan.gheorghe]

  Ha Ha, that is not possible. Personal prefs, system synergy, components used, headphone used etc etc.
 
IMO (I have not heard the Yggy) most of this energy and positives from buyers is the R-2R. To me it is the way to go. There are good, great and of course poor implementations of R-2R, so you have a lot to try out to get the 'perfect DAC for YOU'.
 
The other thing to consider is how well the USB input is and the investment put into that by the manufacturer. Coming from using only USB sources I found that that makes a big difference to the sound, a good DAC can suddenly become a great DAC. The MSB with standard USB is still using the power in the cable, not good. Key is try things out see what works for you. Personally I prefer a DAC R-2R with tubes in it, but I also like the Metrum DACs, and would like to hear the MSB and Yggy. The increasing interest in R-2R is all good IMO.

 
I am not talking about personal preferences. I will get to that in the review on the type of sound each has to offer. I am talking from a technical perspective: details, clarity, soundstage, imaging, transients, etc.

 

[yates7592]

When is the review coming?

 

[dan.gheorghe]

  When is the review coming?

Probably next week, after the 7 warming days

 

[negura]

   

I think that the recommendation is to burn it in or warm it up for like at least 1 week and some suggest a bit more – Just saying. 

 
On this note, I am finding the MSB Analog also benefits a few days of warm-up for the best SQ. I would say it is something like 2-3 days.
 
Anecdotally, someone I know, not on this forum, was turning his MSB Analog off every night. He's just recently realized that after owning it for over one year, he's just heard the DAC it at its best SQ for the first time.

 

[negura]

I have added an update to my comparative review of the Analog DAC, as there was a question unanswered still: 3 DACs, 1 had to go.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/msb-analog/reviews/13668
 
Later edit: It became quite clear after a few more days, the Yggdrasil was the DAC to go. The main reason was that it is not complementary to the MSB Analog, whilst the Theta V A is. Yggy is a very good DAC and I enjoy it, but there wasn't much that the Yggdrasil did better compared to the MSB Analog, while the former is offering a closer sound signature to the MSB sound than Theta does. 
 
I guess the side story here is that even if indirectly the Theta V A did win another victory, which is really very impressive, without having to add the mention: for a 20 years+ old DAC. At what it does well the Theta is exhilarating and it's here to stay for now, together with the MSB Analog. Subject to if/when I get some time, I may brush up and publish more notes on how Theta compares.

 

 

[astrostar59]

Great work Negura! It is very useful to have actual user based reviews, especially other high end headphone users as opposed to relying on magazine reviews.
 
I like the look of the MSB Analogue. It seems to get good responses from anyone who has it or has heard it. The Yggy seemed close? It is half the price of the MSB with that USB Quad module so a good DAC by the sound of it.
 
On the Coax input you talked about, I wonder if the ifi Ilink USB to Coax interface you used was hitting the signature a bit? I messed around with quite a few convertors as my Audio Note DAC 4.1 hasn't got a built in USB board. Back then (2012) I liked the Offramp 5 and M2Tech Evo full stack with external clock. The others I tried inc the Audiophilio were thinner and colder, too unnatural. I am using the M2Tech boxes still and find the high frequency is very good and very clean.
 
​I think there are still quite a lot of 'high end' DACs that offer 3 or 4 input options and thus have a weak USB input design. It is better IMO to have a plug in board that you buy at purchase by choice as MSB have done and also Metrum are doing, then in theory it would be built with better components / budget.
 
Thanks again for the review. The market of R-2R DACs seems to be hotting up recently, which has to be good.

 

[negura]

  Great work Negura! It is very useful to have actual user based reviews, especially other high end headphone users as opposed to relying on magazine reviews.
 
I like the look of the MSB Analogue. It seems to get good responses from anyone who has it or has heard it. The Yggy seemed close? It is half the price of the MSB with that USB Quad module so a good DAC by the sound of it.
 
On the Coax input you talked about, I wonder if the ifi Ilink USB to Coax interface you used was hitting the signature a bit? I messed around with quite a few convertors as my Audio Note DAC 4.1 hasn't got a built in USB board. Back then (2012) I liked the Offramp 5 and M2Tech Evo full stack with external clock. The others I tried inc the Audiophilio were thinner and colder, too unnatural. I am using the M2Tech boxes still and find the high frequency is very good and very clean.
 
​I think there are still quite a lot of 'high end' DACs that offer 3 or 4 input options and thus have a weak USB input design. It is better IMO to have a plug in board that you buy at purchase by choice as MSB have done and also Metrum are doing, then in theory it would be built with better components / budget.
 
Thanks again for the review. The market of R-2R DACs seems to be hotting up recently, which has to be good.

 
 
As if often happens in audio, if someone has not heard the MSB, there is no way to know is comparatively missing listening to Yggy. I think Yggy is a great DAC, but I do not think it is very close to the MSB Analog, no. There are significant gaps in all the areas mentioned in my review. Yggy is packing enough sound quality to be enjoyable right after listening to the MSB Analog, but I do always know what is missing. Another way to put this is: Once I have heard a track on the MSB Analog, hearing it on Yggy is enjoyable but with reduced engagement and interest on my side.
 
Like with any components I have ever heard, the IFI ILINK does indeed have its own signature. It's strength is having an organic sounding non-fatiguing signature. It is warmer and richer sounding compared to the PUC2 Lite or Audiophilleo.

 

[yates7592]

Negura, was your comp done on PCM or DSD, or both? I'm asking, not in relation to Yggy, but MSB. I'm still getting to know my Analog DAC but at present I have a slight preference for PCM (red book or otherwise) upsampled to PCM 384, rather than upsampled to DSD 128 or 256. PCM 384 definitely seems to my ears to have slightly deeper and harder hitting bass than DSD, maybe its a DSD thing or an MSB thing (or just me...) I don't know, but upsampling to DSD seems to weaken the bass a bit.

 

[astrostar59]

  Negura, was your comp done on PCM or DSD, or both? I'm asking, not in relation to Yggy, but MSB. I'm still getting to know my Analog DAC but at present I have a slight preference for PCM (red book or otherwise) upsampled to PCM 384, rather than upsampled to DSD 128 or 256. PCM 384 definitely seems to my ears to have slightly deeper and harder hitting bass than DSD, maybe its a DSD thing or an MSB thing (or just me...) I don't know, but upsampling to DSD seems to weaken the bass a bit.

Is it possible to listen to native 44.1 with the MSB Analogue, or is it defaulting to some form of (R-2R) up sampling conversion.
 
Can it play without a filter?
 
I am fascinated by the above two subjects, as they for me have proved a major leap forward in SQ with Redbook.

 

[yates7592]

  Is it possible to listen to native 44.1 with the MSB Analogue, or is it defaulting to some form of (R-2R) up sampling conversion.
 
Can it play without a filter?
 
I am fascinated by the above two subjects, as they for me have proved a major leap forward in SQ with Redbook.

The MSB Analog DAC does not perform any internal upsampling as far as I am aware. I am using HQ Player to perform upsampling with filters etc to PCM 384 or DSD 256. So yes, this DAC will play native Redbook if that is how your settings are within whatever program you use (HQP, Foobar, JRiver etc).

 

[negura]

  Negura, was your comp done on PCM or DSD, or both? I'm asking, not in relation to Yggy, but MSB. I'm still getting to know my Analog DAC but at present I have a slight preference for PCM (red book or otherwise) upsampled to PCM 384, rather than upsampled to DSD 128 or 256. PCM 384 definitely seems to my ears to have slightly deeper and harder hitting bass than DSD, maybe its a DSD thing or an MSB thing (or just me...) I don't know, but upsampling to DSD seems to weaken the bass a bit.

 
Theta and Yggy do not support DSD, so it could not be part of the comparison. In practice I have very little content and thus interest for DSD. Also the DSD recordings I have are nothing special (regardless of the format) with any DAC that played them, but I would be happy to hear if you have any DSD recommendations.
 
Upsampling to 384 is easy... what seems to be the audible benefit?

 

[yates7592]

   
Theta and Yggy do not support DSD, so it could not be part of the comparison. In practice I have very little content and thus interest for DSD. Also the DSD recordings I have are nothing special (regardless of the format) with any DAC that played them, but I would be happy to hear if you have any DSD recommendations.
 
Upsampling to 384 is easy... what seems to be the audible benefit?

No I don't have any native DSD content, but I have been upsampling to DSD on a regular basis. Upsampling to DSD seems to give better space, stage and air, more analog-like, but possibly at slight expense of bass as mentioned (but that could be HQP filter itself rather than a problem with DSD per se). Upsampling to PCM 384 (i.e. DXD format) gives similar benefits to DSD.