[ev01ut10ndt]

Hi everyone,

I haven’t posted very much, but I just wanted to give you guys my opinion on this. I was going to save this until after my finals are done, but since this thread got me so intrigued, I guess ill just post right now.

My roommate has the SR-60 and I have the MS-1. I purchased the MS-1 after he got his SR-60, but thought that the upper range was a tad harsh/bright for my tastes. My reference comes from a 2 channel set-up that my dad has at home, powered by a tube amp. After reading that the MS-1 were more laid-back and refined, I decided to get them, as they didn’t charge for shipping and tax (which made the cost difference only 15-20 dollars).

In the beginning, I thought that the MS-1 lacked bass and were overly bright. I was SOO disappointed at my purchased. However, I remembered that speakers needed to break in to perform at their best, and so it must apply to headphones as well. So I just stuck them in my drawer and played them for several days straight. Lo and behold, the bass suddenly appeared, mids gained a richness to them, and the highs were so much smoother.

Now here’s what everyone is probably waiting for…the comparison between the SR-60 and the MS-1. Well, I had mine since February and my roommate got his in November? I’m not too sure, but several months before. So they’re well broken in….we use them every single day for several hours because we live in a dorm. Movies with Dolby headphone, music, w/e….we use headphones. So you guys can figure out how many hours we put on them.

The Pads: I found that the SR-60 pads were MUCH much softer than the MS-1. It might be that mine is newer, but mine aren’t getting any softer since I’ve got them. In terms of sonic differences, the SR-60 pads were very similar…very very slightly muffled only (maybe I’m imagining it….) compared to the ms-1 pads, but I attribute that to them being “older”…..so the pad difference can be ignored. I switched pads with mine and his, in all combinations, and couldn’t hear very much of a difference.

The Sound: I used my pads as I didn’t feel as grossed out for listening. I don’t have much of a set-up…so I just used my laptop’s integrated sound. I played a range of rock, hip-hop, instrumental, pop, techno, etc. Overall, I still consider the MS-1 to be too bright for me. I found that I had to lower the 4-8khz range down 2 notches on windows media player on some songs. It was fatiguing for poorly recorded songs as well. But this is beside the point…

Both had the same signature Grado sound. The main difference that I immediate heard was this “unveiling” when I wore my MS-1 compared to the SR-60. Not that the SR-60 wasn’t detailed, it was, but there was a sense of clarity and transparency when listening to the MS-1. Perhaps this is where the refinement comes into picture. The depth of the bass is about the same; but the impact and speed of the MS-1 is better. Both still have the peak at 4-8khz that bug me, but the SR-60 seems to be lower in the range whereas its higher up in the MS-1. I can really hear the guitars come to life with the MS-1…something I attribute to their background in guitars. The highs on the MS-1 are airier, clearer, and just allow for much more detail to be heard in the songs. As a result, in all the songs, I have an easier time picking out all the instruments, and hearing them all revolving around me. It gives a more immediate presentation as well. The SR-60 have more mids. Overall, the key idea is more clarity in the MS-1 versus SR-60.

I hope this helped. I posted a picture of the SR-60 and the MS-1….and the hw that I’m supposed to be doing instead of this… If you guys have any questions, feel free to ask!

 

[umcloud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ev01ut10ndt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi everyone, I hope this helped. I posted a picture of the SR-60 and the MS-1….and the hw that I’m supposed to be doing instead of this… If you guys have any questions, feel free to ask!

Wow, very impressive second post. Thank you for bringing a voice of reason to this thread. I think you've reached a conclusion that most of us can agree with: while the differences between these two headphones aren't night and day, they are there, and can be heard. Whether or not they are worth the price difference is up to each individual, as always. I only hope we can now put aside the intricate conspiracy theories involving self-deceiving audio enthusiasts and international headphone cartels.

 

[Forest Design]

ev01ut10ndt, that was easily and by far the best, most sober breakdown of the differences between alessandro and grado cans that i've ever read

 

[ev01ut10ndt]

Thanks for the comments...i can't imagine how long my post would be if I wrote my "complete" posting on the ms-1 fan thread, including comparisons with the HD-280 and the speakers at home.

As for BrookR1, I would suggest burning them in for at least a day or 2. They certainly get a lot better. I thought that the SR-60 were better than the MS-1 the first couple days, but opinions soon changed. Even my roommate agreed. But anyways, I hope for the best....

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ev01ut10ndt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the comments...i can't imagine how long my post would be if I wrote my "complete" posting on the ms-1 fan thread, including comparisons with the HD-280 and the speakers at home. As for BrookR1, I would suggest burning them in for at least a day or 2. They certainly get a lot better. I thought that the SR-60 were better than the MS-1 the first couple days, but opinions soon changed. Even my roommate agreed. But anyways, I hope for the best....

ev01ut10ndt: Thanks for your contribution to this thread & I am glad you have been enjoying your MS-1s. I fully agree with your burn-in observation...in fact, every Grado I have ever owned (all 2 of them) have changed, for the better, over 48 hours of cumulative burn-in.

Sorry to hear about your sensitivity to some of the brightness in the MS-1. This is the single reason I defected to the MS-1s from the SR-80s. I'm much happier in that regard. As a starving college student, have you considered experimenting with the inexpensive Senn HD414 pads? Many consider them softer than the stock comfys and also suggest they pump the bass a bit while taking the edge off some of the highs. A more expensive, but broadly loved option, are the TTVJ flats (~$30!) which supposedly take the Senn HD414 changes even further (don't own these though).

Happy listening!

 

[BrookR1]

Terrific post Evo.

My phones are still being burned in. I agree with Evo on the pads description. The sr-60 are slightly softer and a little denser. I'll have to switch the MS-1 pads for the SR-60 pads and re-evaluate.

I have a few questions evo...

When you talk about the "uveiling"...what percentage in sound improvement did you notice? Overall, how alike do you feel these phones are? Is the MS-1 a 50 while the SR-80s are a 35? 43? 49? What percentage of the total sound signature would you attribute the carity to? 3% 10%

Would you consider the MS-1s more "laid back" than the SR-60?

Have you listened to any other Grados with bowl pads? If so, would you consider them less fatiguing than your MS-1s?

Here's a loaded question...knowing what you know now, do you think the MS-1s are worth the extra $30 over the SR-60s? Do you think you would have been just as happy with the SR-60 and used the $30 towards an upgrade?

I'm not drilling you or anything...I'm perfectly happy with your assessment and am looking forward to listening to them again when they're burned in.

 

[BrookR1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umcloud /img/forum/go_quote.gif I only hope we can now put aside the intricate conspiracy theories involving self-deceiving audio enthusiasts and international headphone cartels.

Once you get out into business world, you'd be amazed at far corporations will go to save a buck. Circumventing distributors with unfavorable terms is common practice. This only really supports my theory.

And I think this post really points out that the MS-1s really should be compared to the SR-60s and should NOT be compared to the SR-80s or 125s, nor should be recommended OVER the SR-80s because the sounds are completely different.

 

[F107plus5]

I just went back over most of this thread and I am very disappointed in two entities: Myself, for not stating the obvious right at the start, and(puts on flamesuit)the entire community of Head-Fi who are in-the-know about the matter and didn't chime in with the #1 Mantra of "let them break-in thoroughly, let them break-in thoroughly, before deciding." I did notice a couple of comments about break-in, but nothing really forceful. Then again; I doubt that most folks understood that the MS-1 in question were brand-new right out of the box.

My MS-1 and MS2i were still making slight improvements even months after purchase.

 

[F107plus5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrookR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Once you get out into business world, you'd be amazed at far corporations will go to save a buck. Circumventing distributors with unfavorable terms is common practice. And I think this post really points out that the MS-1s really should be compared to the SR-60s and should NOT be compared to the SR-80s or 125s, nor should be recommended OVER the SR-80s because the sounds are completely different.

If MS-1 didn't exist, then MS2i would be the entry-level Alessandro. Is iGrado the entry-level Grado? I dunno. But it seems to me that Alessandro didn't necessarily choose to use the Grado model of using the SR-60 as their starting point. According to Grados' specs, the SR-125 is the starting point for the Alessandro line. To save some money they choose to use comfies on MS-1 and leave off the button. But they are still SR-125 under the skin. With differently designed drivers they do of course sound different than SR-125, but they are still SR-125 based and should be compared to SR-125 and not the cheaper Grado models with less developed features.

 

[BrookR1]

The iGrado is completely different than any of the Grados I've listened to. It may be based on the specs of the SR-60, but sounds nothing like it. The SR-60 and iGrado can't really be compared with each other. You may look at a spec sheet and automatically think they do, but they don't. You're also a Senn fan and a Grado fan. I think that you would really like these.

When making a recommendation, I base it on sound. It's going back to the point earlier that you listen to sound and not specs.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrookR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The iGrado is completely different than any of the Grados I've listened to. It may be based on the specs of the SR-60, but sounds nothing like it. The SR-60 and iGrado can't really be compared with each other. You may look at a spec sheet and automatically think they do, but they don't. You're also a Senn fan and a Grado fan. I think that you would really like these. When making a recommendation, I base it on sound. It's going back to the point earlier that you listen to sound and not specs.

Isnt the difference of iGrado and SR60 caused by iGrados VERY thick earpad? A popular mod to iGrado was either quartermod originals or getting some thinner earpads, like PX100 earpads? Thats supposed to bring them much closer to SR-60 sound?

 

[F107plus5]

Listening to sound is great, it's why we're all here. We just have to wait till that sound is fully developed before making a decision. And yes I agree that I would probably enjoy the Grado line as well! I'm looking forward to hearing a pair.

The fact still remains that the Alessandro line begins at the SR-125 level. Grado actually tells us that through their spec sheet. We can't use the pads shipped with the phones as the one item that helps us decide where a product is placed.

.....it almost sounds as though there is little consistency in the Comfy pads as shipped. Now THAT is strange!

EDIT: Oops; you were talkin' about iGrado and SR-60....sorry.

 

[BrookR1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isnt the difference of iGrado and SR60 caused by iGrados VERY thick earpad? A popular mod to iGrado was either quartermod originals or getting some thinner earpads, like PX100 earpads? Thats supposed to bring them much closer to SR-60 sound?

Well, I don't think it's just the pads. There may be more to it. The grill on the back of the iGrados has more (but smaller) holes, the driver housing is smaller, and so are the pads, not to mention the foam pad inserted between the driver and the grill. So, there's a lot going on there. They may do other things to the driver that can't be seen. I quarter modded my pads to bring out the highs, but they're still darker than the SR-60s (with the SR-60 pad intact). Unmodded, to me they were too muddy and dark. Modded, they come closer to the SR-60s, but are still darker...but I like it.

 

[jook]

Well, you've forced me to register and login to make a post

I'm an old user of the site who haven't been posting for a long while (and thus forgotten his password!). But I've read posts for some time.

I'm sitting here with a pair of Grados SR-60 and a recently acquired Alessandro MS-1. I have been A/B'ing them just recently so this thread is very timely.

I'll cut to the chase. For all the stuff I've listened to, and all the various sources and music of mine: The SR-60 and MS-1 sound significantly different to me.

I'm not going to make sweeping statements that this applies for everybody. I think BrookR1 clearly has very different ears to me, and we most likely listen to (and for) very different things. For one, he listed "techno" as a genre he tested with, and I don't listen to any techno. I listen mostly to rock, pop (that's such a useless term these days), blues, jazz - recordings ranging from the 60s to now. I'm also a musician and dabble in recording, if that matters any.

To me, I can't even imagine saying these two sound the same. They sound so vastly different, to the point that I can find instrument sounds that stand out on one and almost completely inaudible on the other.

My impression is similar to what donunus' described earlier in the thread. The bass is significantly stronger on the SR-60. The rhythm section (drums and bass) is very much more forward and you can hear much more detail in these two instruments.

The MS-1 however, while having a more rolled off bass (which is still quite nice and has a presence to it, but nowhere near as "forward" and thus less detailed in things like the tone of a bass guitar being plucked) has very crisp and detailed midrange to highs. It's almost like an a mid/treble boost on the SR-60's sound in some way. It's definitely more detailed in things like guitars and piano. Vocals are alot more 'airy'. Acoustic pianos that are played in conjunction with bass drums and electric bass stands out much more clearly, as opposed to being somewhat muddied up a bit in the SR-60s.

The way I see it, the MS-1 (and I suspect, the Alessandro sound in general) is more "hi fi". It is cleaner, more detailed in many areas. It (purposely) loses some of the bass in order to achieve something more accurate and clear.

I liken the SR-60 (and overall Grado line) to listening to something with a tube amp - in that it will appeal more to the people who enjoy the nature of things like tube amps. It gives warmth and tonal coloration. Achieving high fidelity is not its objective, it's just to make the music more pleasant to listen to (which is subjective of course, depending on your tastes). There is a great deal of detail in its own way, but not to the MS-1's level of clarity. It has a greater amount of color though, and the sounds have a more unique presentation.

The MS-1 is great in that it has some of that warmth and coloration of the Grado, and yet be able to achieve greater detail, without going all out with the clinical level of accuracy of something like the AKG studio phones.

I find myself going back and forth between which one I prefer, but in the end, I decided on the SR-60s. I believe it is significantly warmer sounding, and while it's not as detailed, it's very much the sound I want to "hear" in my head. Also, take into account that I listen to alot of old recordings, things from the 50s and 60s. These recordings are far from what would be considered high fidelity, and they don't sound so well when more detail and treble is brought forward, but they excel with something like the Grados. I read the interview with John Grado which says that he listens to alot of 60s stuff like The Beatles and the Stones, so this makes alot of sense.

Anyway, the point I wanted to get to, is that no one listens the same way, and no one hears the same things. So I don't think it's wise to state your impressions as fact. I think it's going way overboard to start predicting corporate controversy just because you think these headphones sound the same. Take note that other people clearly do not, and whether you hear it or not, you have to take that into consideration.

The frequency measurements posted before (and pasted below for complete-ness) are also interesting, and they largely match with my impressions. So some differences can't be denied.

SR-60:

MS-1:

 

[BrookR1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by F107plus5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif .....it almost sounds as though there is little consistency in the Comfy pads as shipped. Now THAT is strange!(

Evo and I both had the same observations about the comfy pads. They are slightly different between the SR-60 and MS-1. The SR-60s are slightly softer with the MS-1s being less dense and slightly firmer.