How to detect Snake Oil
Jun 18, 2008 at 1:58 AM Post #61 of 91
If it works correctly, it's transparent. Seriously, this is almost a matter of semantics - at best it's splitting hairs. If it's not causing audible (and when I say audible I mean CLEARLY audible) static, noise, etc, it's transparent. Coat hangers can be transparent if assembled properly and in an RF/EMI clean environment. Cables aren't prone to barely noticeable defects in the audio chain - if it's not doing the job right, you'll know.
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 2:13 AM Post #62 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If it works correctly, it's transparent. Seriously, this is almost a matter of semantics - at best it's splitting hairs. If it's not causing audible (and when I say audible I mean CLEARLY audible) static, noise, etc, it's transparent. Coat hangers can be transparent if assembled properly and in an RF/EMI clean environment. Cables aren't prone to barely noticeable defects in the audio chain - if it's not doing the job right, you'll know.


But isn't that what the entire debate is about. None of my cables cause ANY static or noise and I can CLEARLY hear differences between cables and I have MANY: Canare, Mogami, Cardas 4x24, solid Cardas 18AWG, XLO cryo treated, SPC, all types and they all sound different. I don't think that ANY are "transparent". I am a firm believer that all cables alter the sound and "transparent" and "neutral" are words audiophiles like to use to describe what they think is the middle ground between bright and warm sounds.
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 5:35 AM Post #64 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Then back it up with a blind test, because all the evidence is against your findings. As I've said before, anecdotal evidence isn't compelling.


Sounds like a plan; I'll see what I can do about building a cable switchbox and bringing it to the NorCal meet just for that reason.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 9:16 AM Post #66 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Do people buy Rolex or Phillipe Patek because they are more accurate than a Timex?


Rolex and Patek Philippe (and others) watches are jewelry. It is generally accepted that their watches are no better at keeping time.
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 2:32 PM Post #67 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Rolex and Patek Philippe (and others) watches are jewelry. It is generally accepted that their watches are no better at keeping time.



and you don't think people who obsess over high $$$ cables view them as a sort of jewelry as well?
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 3:49 PM Post #68 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif
and you don't think people who obsess over high $$$ cables view them as a sort of jewelry as well?


Yeah but that's not the controversy. The controversy is not that people buy high-end cables, but the fact that they claim that it improves the sound.
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 4:44 PM Post #69 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yeah but that's not the controversy. The controversy is not that people buy high-end cables, but the fact that they claim that it improves the sound.




Don't get me wrong!
...I'm not disagreeing with what you say!
biggrin.gif
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 6:49 PM Post #70 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Of course, this does bring me to the obvious question, what makes you say this cable is "transparent" vs another? What point of reference would you be using for transparency? And of course, how are you determining whether something is transparent?


The easy way to tell is to take five different cables and swap them in and out. If you can't hear a difference, the odds are very good that they are "transparent". A more accurate way is to measure their performance within audible specifications. In general, it isn't difficult to make a cable that is audibly transparent. Conductivity in a well designed and manufactured cable is consistent.

Does that help answer your question?

See ya
Steve
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 6:52 PM Post #71 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But isn't that what the entire debate is about. None of my cables cause ANY static or noise and I can CLEARLY hear differences between cables.


Assuming your experience is accurate, your cables aren't transparent. They're coloring the sound. There are much more efficient and accurate ways to color the sound than by using cables with different degrees of coloration. It isn't hard to make an audibly transparent cable. It's probably harder to create one that is colored with any degree of consistency from cable to cable. To me, a cable that alters the sound is a bad cable. I want to have control over the way my music sounds.

See ya
Steve
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 6:55 PM Post #72 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Of course, this does bring me to the obvious question, what makes you say this cable is "transparent" vs another? What point of reference would you be using for transparency? And of course, how are you determining whether something is transparent?


The easiest way I can think of is to record a waveform directly from the output of something, then attach a cable to that output and record the waveform from the other end of the cable and compare them.
 
Jun 18, 2008 at 7:09 PM Post #73 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The easy way to tell is to take five different cables and swap them in and out. If you can't hear a difference, the odds are very good that they are "transparent". A more accurate way is to measure their performance within audible specifications. In general, it isn't difficult to make a cable that is audibly transparent. Conductivity in a well designed and manufactured cable is consistent.

Does that help answer your question?

See ya
Steve


From the position of "cables don't make a difference", that does answer the question, unfortunately, I'm of the other frame of mind.

Conductivity is definitely consistent in all of my cables, geometry determines capacitance and inductance and material determines resistance. These are all measurable things and whether they can qualify as affecting sound is another debate altogether.

As for switching out 5 or more cables, well, what if I think they are all a little different (some very different), and since all cables are different, which one is transparent?
 
Jun 19, 2008 at 3:12 AM Post #74 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
As for switching out 5 or more cables, well, what if I think they are all a little different (some very different), and since all cables are different, which one is transparent?


You must be buying the wrong cables.

See ya
Steve
 
Jun 19, 2008 at 5:47 AM Post #75 of 91
stop all these snake oil talk please..... Snake oil doesn't contain enough Omega-3, so is of lesser quality than cod fish oil.

Omega-3 is said to offer more health benefit than the Omega-2. And the Omega-2 is, by the way, better than the original Stax SR-Omega.


confused yet?
 
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