[Audio-Me]

Lol, that's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Great minds think alike heh?

But to be fair, if his V6s sounded like they had too much bass in most of his recordings I suppose he would have said so?

 

[Audio-Me]

Not exactly, like I said, he could be so used to the bass characteristics of his Sonys that he isn't recognising the low end through the stock cables, but does with the Clous because they give more impact (they drill the bass into him,

"you wan't bass? Well here it is!")

 

[Beagle]

Geez, I thought there was too much bass with the stock cable...

I think the Senn stock cable is litz wire, which has a characteristic of lack of bass. I would assume Sennheiser used this to reduce the bloat of the driver/pad combo.

Of course some people think McDonalds fries don't have enough salt, it's all a matter of taste, I guess. Quote:

The clous are not necessarily bright, but tonally focused on the high end

Isn't that sort of the same thing? I guess the Clou is not neutral then? I guess we are playing around mixing and matching colorations to find "neutral", I find that frustrating.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle I guess we are playing around mixing and matching colorations to find "neutral", I find that frustrating.

It's my opinion that that's what we generally do in the hobby of hi-fi and head-fi.

Toe your speakers in. Toe them out. Swap interconnects. Swap source components, DAC's, power cords, preamps, amps, etc. And now head-fi'ers (Sennheiser ones at least) have a few different headphone cables to choose from (it's about time -- none of our speakers have fixed cables going into them).

Most people tune the sound of their rigs to their preferences. And if I'm convinced my rig sounds neutral, but someone listens to it and says it's overly warm or overly bright (and so anything but neutral), who's right?




Me!

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

It's my opinion that that's what we generally do in the hobby of hi-fi and head-fi

I know, and it is so frustrating. I used to be happy with whatever I bought and accepted it for what it was and sounded like. Now, with the help of Head-Fi, I am on a wild goose chase for something that probably does not exist.

So, all my equipment goes on the auction block 8:00am Monday. Either that or I am going to stop listening to everybody and just accept what goes into my ears. However, I still expect that everyone here will continue to listen to me

Just kidding, of course. I love all the options and opinions laid out here. There are actually a lot of people confirming a lot of opinions/tastes that are similar to mine. It's nice to be amongst friends. I don't know what I would do without Head-Fi.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Of course some people think McDonalds fries don't have enough salt, it's all a matter of taste, I guess.

Excellent analogy, Beagle. Although in the case of the Sennheisers/Clou's, it's probably more like "...some people think sushi doesn't come with enough wasabe..."

 

[fredpb]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs You base your opinion on the HD600 sounding *right* with your test albums when everything else sounds like *boom*??? Do they actually sound *light* with your other albums then? Or not?? Have you considered the possibility that the HD600s are right and everthing else you own are wrong? Sorry, just had to ask.

Sorry to, but I have to respond.

Your assumption, the following are fooling my ears:
Dynaco a50 speakers. Fulton Tempo speakers. Vandersteen 2ce Signature speakers. Sony 7506. Koss HV/X headphones. Other headphones I have. Rotel receiver. Onkyo Receiver. Acurus amp and preamp. Rega Planet CD player. Sony 920 MD. Sony 320 MD. Two Sony Cd players (one 400 cd, one 5 cd). Panasonic SL570 CD. Total Airhead. Headroom supreme. MG Head OTL.
JVC minidisc portables. Sony MD portables. Good interconnects and speaker cables. Pioneer CD recorder deck.

And the Sennheiser HD600's are perfect, with stock cable.
Even though even Headrooms charts show drop in low freq response and impedence hump at 100hz.

Methinks your opinion is wrong. Even if my opinion is unpopular.

What do you listen too? I listen to music that is usually not rock, heavy metal, etc. Just big band, classical, and jazz. If you have the average system, your system will not reproduce true low end freqs. Most subwoofers act like woofers, not subwoofers.

I know the difference in sound between boomy bass, bloated bass, true bass, etc. The HD600's sound find with most music.
But when the true low end is there, they fall short of expectations.

I am listening now to a nice Telarc CD with my SL570 PCDP and Total Airhead, HD600's, and Clou Reds (don't panic, I have the 1/4 stereo to 1/8" stereo adapter). The Clou help, but don't completely restore true low end with the TA. The HD600's are still hard to drive. The Clous with the Onkyo are an improvement, too, but still not perfect.

When I was shopping for speakers, and was trying out the Vandersteens, for low end, the saleman was very surprised with what he heard. His comment was "I never heard them do that before". Referring to low freq output. They could do it. The HD600's need a lot of prodding to produce it.

Music is a full range experience. I expect low end performance when I pay for it. Most people really don't know what it sounds like. That's ok. Many say cables don't make a difference either.
I said that until about 3 years ago. I keep an open mind. Most dont'.

Now I am more unpopular than ever!


It's ok if you disagree. Because you are in error, but not maliciously.

 

[fredpb]

Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me Not exactly, like I said, he could be so used to the bass characteristics of his Sonys that he isn't recognising the low end through the stock cables, but does with the Clous because they give more impact (they drill the bass into him, "you wan't bass? Well here it is!")

Hear we go again...

Sony's are not the only thing I listen too, or bass sound opinion on.

Many sources, media, and reproducers.

The HD600's are the ones that STAND OUT as anemic on the lowest end.

It took a lot of effort to get these to sound acceptable for the price point.

It took a good amp suited for the HD600's and replacement of the stock cable.

So let's put it down in $$$ terms:

(and let's not quibble about prices, shall we?)
HD600's. $300
2m interconnect: $100
MG Head $330
Red Clou's $120
That's $850.
That's a bit much. And does not consider postage two ways for
auditioned, but not kept, equipment.

Sony MDR7506 (NOT V6, that's another argument). $100.

For $100, value wise, the Sony's SLAM the Sennheiser setup.
For SOUND, I am now happy with my Senn's.

Perhaps instead of burning me at the stake, you should consider a hearing test???

 

[Joe Bloggs]

We seem to be chasing each other around on Head-Fi today. You replied to so many of the threads I posted in...

 

[Audio-Me]

I still think that you're mistaking bloated (saturated) bass as snappy low end and the Sennheisers refined (controlled) bass as lacking there of, perhaps maybe even pronounced upper low frequencies (80hz-120hz) being perceived as low end due to amount of midrange impact your other equipment may produce.
From your comments, I take it the Vandersteens have some kind of active low frequency driver along with a beefy midrange driver. So I'd guess they would bang down to around 30hz give or take 5hz. Well the Senns can play there too, they just don't move as much air

.
It's not that I scorn you for thinking your way, it's just so hard for me to believe when it is clearly evident through my ears. I don't find the bottom octave weak at all in the HD600 even without proper amplification or Clou cables. I love these cans so much I most likely could have a biased opinion, but it's still my opinion. =)

Of course non of this matters because you've stated that you love the sound of these, which is the only thing that matters.

As long as you like them, you're still in the "popular" crowd.

As far as value is concerned, the level of sound that the Senns give you is absolutely stunning compared to speakers. If you think about it, $850 is a bargain!
Now the Sony MDR-7506, when I auditioned them, they sounded terrible, clearly not for me, sacrifice sound for value? I think not. It amazes me that people are using these for casual listening and actually enjoy it.

I'm not saying that they're bad (there must be a reason why so many people use these

), they just do NOT fit my tastes. *prepares for backfire from team Sony*

 

[Joe Bloggs]

OTOH the one who says that a headphone / speaker has not enough bass is almost always right in one sense--all headphones and speakers roll off somewhere down in the low bass...

Although the HD580 actually has something of a high-bass hump and the higher frequencies are recessed somewhat, the response *does* go down from the hump...

Even the 7506 has 'not enough bass' if you're talking about 20Hz, probably

Not a very useful definition of 'not enough bass' is it?

OTOH it's hard to make a 'useful' definition, it all depends on your music.

 

[grinch]

i've read all the arguments and i have this to say: i used to run my hd600's through the mg head dt with my stock cable and i still think that you're insane for saying it doesn't have enough bass.

however, that probably just means that you haven't heard the akg k501's..

(which i love! please don't kill me team akg!)

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by fredpb The HD600's are the ones that STAND OUT as anemic on the lowest end.

I would suggest that you never try the K501 then

P.S. Audio&Me, the V6 don't have bloated bass -- they really do have fairly tight, and very extended bass. The Etys are the only headphones I've heard that have bass as extended/flat as the V6. Compared to the V6, the HD600 do roll off. Compared to most other headphones on the market, they don't

Unfortunately, all the V6 really have is that impressive bass. Their treble and midrange are smoked by most other "good" headphones.

 

[Audio-Me]

Hrm, I must have heard the 7506 through crappy source then, but I thought they're supposed to be driven well by anything? The HD600 does have rolled off bass, but every other can does too. It's whether or not they can still sound GOOD that matters.