[OverlordXenu]

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Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh, this is very much like the 'Digital cable' debate.

There's a debate over digital cables?

 

[Chri5peed]

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Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's a debate over digital cables?

A joke, I take it?

Or more accurately, a duel to the death.

 

[kwkarth]

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Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wasn't backpedaling, I only edited my post to more properly express my thoughts, which have not changed during the course of the argument. Putting it the way you do, I'm actually inclined to agree. But that isn't the way most people use the term "golden ear". When most people use this term, they're implying that the person in question has some kind of genetic predisposition toward significantly more acute hearing than the average human being. That they have somehow been gifted with inherently better auditory perception, able to discern differences beyond the normal range of human hearing.

Interesting. Perhaps my definition of "golden ear" has been different than the main stream of thought here at Head-Fi.

The Wiki definition, which should represent general consensus says:
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Originally Posted by Wiki A golden ear is a term in audio circles referring to a person who believes that they possess better than average hearing. Golden ears claim to be able to discern subtle differences in audio reproduction that typical listeners cannot. The term has also been lent to titles of ear training CDs, which contain drills which teach the audiophile to identify different frequency boost and cuts, differing compression values, time delays, and reverb times. "The Absolute Sound", a monthly publication of audio products and production techniques, also gives out the 'Golden Ear Award' for products that break new ground in superior sounding audio equipment. See also: Audiophile

This definition seems to incorporate your thoughts and my thoughts. To me, one who has a "golden ear" has the ability, from education, training, and experience, to carefully compare and discern differences between sounds having to do with production values, phase, frequency response spectral balance, IM and HD products, and the like.

This has nothing to do with superior anything. It's simply a matter of training and exoerience. To a small degree, there are documented differences in the way people hear. In about 5% of the population or less, people can more accurately identify things with their ears/brain than the rest of the population. This does not make them any better than anyone else.

My doctor is no better a human than I because he's better with oganic chemistry than I. He may have more steady hands than I which enable him to perform fine motor skills such as surgery than I, but again, it makes him no better of a human being. We each have our place in this world.

So maybe we're not so far apart as it may have first appeared. We may actually see this subject eye to eye, if we take the time to explore each other's definitions and thought processes.

Society may place greater or lesser economic value on different skills and abilities, but that says nothing about our values as human beings.

 

[vesther]

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Originally Posted by solomon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Recently saw a pair of HD650s new from the box. Took a close look at the drivers, and guess what I found ... The drivers say they are HD580! Anyone can explain this to me? Do HD580,HD600 and HD650 use the same drive model called HD580?

I say that's weird. I'm going to have to "test-drive" both the HD580 and the HD650 when I do some Eye-Shopping to see whether or not that's true.

 

[kwkarth]

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Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif You'd think that, but many many folk don't. Lol, I'm buying a £60 optical cable! I like nice things.

There's nothing wrong with that, assuming you have the financial means. May you enjoy it in the finest of health!

 

[Davesrose]

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Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif In a perfect world the 580/600 do not have the same driver as the 650. In a perfect world there are no errors. We're not living in a perfect world and we're asking about a potential error.

If Sennheiser sharpied out the "HD580" on this one part before making the HD650 driver.....would that have been better?? The only solid evidence we have is that there's an appearance difference in some new batches of the magnet of the HD650s......the HD650s that got the new silver dampening material proved not to be defective or sound any different.....so until there's proof that these sound different then other HD650s, there's no reason to believe you shouldn't have a HD650.

Anyway, if you want to continue to be negative about it....I hope that you find a rep that does give you an explanation. Relax and don't get too worked up about it...I can only say from my own experience with Sennheiser that I haven't had any problems with their products or service (using their Connecticut branch).

 

[kwkarth]

It sure would be nice to hear from the Sennheiser rep in a serious, definitive, non flippant way to answer the riddle posed by the OP.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

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To me, one who has a "golden ear" has the ability, from education, training, and experience, to carefully compare and discern differences between sounds having to do with production values, phase, frequency response spectral balance, IM and HD products, and the like.

In that case, there was never a disagreement in the first place.

Man, I got all worked up for nothing! I suppose it is my fault for getting worked up in the first place, though. Sometimes I become a little reactionary when too much of this tenuously defined audiophile terminology gets thrown around. My apologies if I sounded a little rude.

 

[zkn]

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Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif If Sennheiser sharpied out the "HD580" on this one part before making the HD650 driver.....would that have been better?? The only solid evidence we have is that there's an appearance difference in some new batches of the magnet of the HD650s......the HD650s that got the new silver dampening material proved not to be defective or sound any different.....so until there's proof that these sound different then other HD650s, there's no reason to believe you shouldn't have a HD650. Anyway, if you want to continue to be negative about it....I hope that you find a rep that does give you an explanation. Relax and don't get too worked up about it...I can only say from my own experience with Sennheiser that I haven't had any problems with their products or service (using their Connecticut branch).

Would you had let it slide without asking Senn or making a thread about it in our place?

 

[Chri5peed]

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Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif If Sennheiser sharpied out the "HD580" on this one part before making the HD650 driver.....would that have been better?? The only solid evidence we have is that there's an appearance difference in some new batches of the magnet of the HD650s......the HD650s that got the new silver dampening material proved not to be defective or sound any different.....so until there's proof that these sound different then other HD650s, there's no reason to believe you shouldn't have a HD650. Anyway, if you want to continue to be negative about it....I hope that you find a rep that does give you an explanation. Relax and don't get too worked up about it...I can only say from my own experience with Sennheiser that I haven't had any problems with their products or service (using their Connecticut branch).

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Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif It sure would be nice to hear from the Sennheiser rep in a serious, definitive, non flippant way to answer the riddle posed by the OP.

I'm not too bothered, well a bit. Like kwkarth said, I have too, we'd just like a proper answer.

That part of the driver being the same = Win.

 

[Davesrose]

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Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not too bothered, well a bit. Like kwkarth said, I have too, we'd just like a proper answer. That part of the driver being the same = Win.

Well if we weren't across the pond, I'd offer my HD650s for you to borrow. But I like them too much to be parted that much!!!

If anyone with HD650s that have this "HD 580" printed on them lives in Atlanta, maybe we can setup a mini-meet to have an official comparison of one without.

While the rep on this site hasn't offered up an explanation....lets give Sennheiser the benefit of the doubt. They do change their appearance from time to time: each time they have, that hasn't changed the overall SQ though. But getting a hold of the design and assembling team of the HD650 can be a challenge....doing a group compare might be a good alternative.

 

[zkn]

But if it is indeed a wrong part, I'm going to sell these to a diehard 600 fan here for one million dollars. I mean 600s with the looks of 650? now that's Golden.

 

[kwkarth]

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Originally Posted by zkn /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if it is indeed a wrong part, I'm going to sell these to a diehard 600 fan here for one million dollars. I mean 600s with the looks of 650? now that's Golden.

BINGO!

All seriousness aside, IMHO, it makes no sense whatsoever to manufacture a driver intended for more than one model of headphone with a part number printed on it for only one. Likewise it also makes no sense for a manufacturer who has stated that the 650 uses a unique driver, different from the HD580/600 to install a driver labeled for the 580.

There is either a big mistake or a big deception going on.

This is not to say Sennheiser couldn't produce an HD-650 using the same driver used in the HD580 and the HD600. They could very possibly do that very thing, through more careful tuning of resonances, reflections and vibrations, and filters. To have done so and declared anything else is deceptive.

So we want an unambiguous Official statement from Sennheiser clarifying this issue.

 

[zkn]

Oh well, the truth will be out sooner or later

Either way we've got out asses covered..

If it's pure 650, fine.
If it's not, there's minimum of 2 years warranty against manufacture defects.
If it's HD5800, one million dollars.

Seems like I'm not going to be returning these anytime soon.


As for the sound.. incredible but they cause no listening fatique for me. From which I've been suffering for almost 10 months now after probably somewhat damaging my hearing last christmas.

Anyone else thinking these might be aesthetically the ubersexiest headphones ever? Materials look slightly cheap, but otherwise..

 

[fierce_freak]

^yes, for sure. I'm considering picking up a pair of HD650 again, and if I do buy new I don't want there to be any worry involved.