[olek]

Ummm... interesting.
 
I had 600 Ohm version of DT770 for couple days (before I totally inadvertently murdered them), and they did sound nice from H10, but from what I remember sound was typical to closed-back headphones - flat and without much soundstage that my ears are craving for. Sound signature was overall very similar to DT880 600 Ohm version (a good thing in my book) - very neutral. One big distinction (for me) was bass. Unfortunately, DT770 were the headphones that taught me the meaning of 'one-note bass' phrase - anything down there was very similar, and lacked definition and texture.
 
Overall sounds was quite decent, and combined with good noise isolation on those phones I actually liked them, and was sad to lose them because of my stupidity.
 
But is was not much of hi-fi sound.
 
Curious why we had such different impressions. Maybe different impedance, plus different age/condition (of headphones, not ours) affected the outcome (I got mine old and well used).
 
From my more current experience - 600 Ohm DT880 can sound better driven by bottlehead crack than H10 (all other headphones are the other way around), so impedance does play a role...

 

[bavinck]

Yes, I will need to more critically listen for bass. Can you provide some song exemples that you would use test for bass texture?

 

[olek]

Be careful what you wish for

 
I like to use any jazz recording with double-bass in it to evaluate bass quality and ability to reproduce that frontal attack.
 
Like Tsuyoshi Yamamoto / Autumn in Seattle / The Way we Were.
 
Eva Cassidy's "Live at Blues Alley" already mentioned here, song "People Get Ready". Not sure if that is double-bass playing in the background, but man, it goes so deep, and being a background sound it is difficult thing to render right.
 
Deva Premal / 2010 Tibetan Mantras for Turbulent Times / Invocation - insanely deep monk vocals, very richly textured. Good music to spook kids around Halloween time too

 
Or, for classical music, try first minute of Jean Sibelius Pohjola's Daughter, Op. 49, that cello is magnificent and rumble of drums is quiet but deep and rich. There are so many renditions of it, but this one is the one I would recommend (slow and deep): https://youtu.be/vUSC2dpkxbY

 

[swannie007]

A few weeks ago I swopped out the 5532 op amps in my H10 for some 823's and got an appreciable step up in bass clarity and was quite pleased and this evening I swopped out the OPA134's for the 797's and all I can say is WOW! The whole musical spectrum is so much cleaner and it is as if I can "look into" the music soundscape much deeper than before and the bass has, once again, improved and is much more resolved and does not just drown out the background instruments. I am listening to Marcus Miller right now who plays a five string bass guitar and the bass is front and centre and very enjoyable as I can now hear much more of what the recording/sound engineer meant for me to hear, i.e. all the fine nuances of the music that were drowned out before. The best way I can describe it is like a picture that has come into sharp focus showing all the fine detail. Electric guitars of all persuasions are rendered absolutely beautifully and oh those female vocals!!! Absolutely delicious.
A big thanks to the captain for recommending this combo, highly recommended!
A note to the captain - You must listen to Shelby Lynne's edition of Wishin' and Hopin' on her Just A Little Lovin' album, just fabulous! Cheers from the "bosun in the bush".

 

[stuartmc]

Bosun Swannie!    Let me start right off with a tip of the Captain's hat for the Shelby Lynne reccomendation. I just listened to the whole album of "Just a Little Lovin' " and it's been added to my ever growing songbird list.  Gorgeous voice, gorgeous songs and a superb recording!
 
I'm also very pleased to hear that my First Mate is trimming his jib with some tasty op-amps.  Isn't this fun!  We start off with an amp that is a stupid good performer at a ridiculously low price and then we can have fun personalizing its sound.  I noticed the enhancement of soundstaging the most with the 797/823 combo, followed closely be neutral tonal balance and clarity.   I would agree that the clarity really shows itself with bass tracks - no more amorphous washes of seemingly texture-less low bass, nope, a smorgasbord of  subtle tonalities.  Marcus Miller is definitely a great choice for electric bass listening along with my go to guy, Stanley Clark. For acoustic bass, my favorite  is Glen Moore playing his 1715 era Klotz double bass fiddle.
 
I'm not done with my op-amp swabbing. The 797BRZ/823 combination is a tough act to follow, but I'm keeping my mind and ears open to discovering some more ear-nectar.  Today is a very good swabbing day at Stu's place.  Arriving simultaneously are the dual 797BRZ's pre-mounted on adapters to try in place of the AD823's  and also a complete set of single and dual op-amps from the Burson boys in Oz.  


 
Its pretty cool how they put a 797BRZ on top and solder another one underneath in such a small package. Rather nicely done and very reasonably priced from Analog Metric in Hong Kong.  I got a pair delivered for $40.64.  The Burson Audio Supreme Sound Op-amps are very impressive to look at and even have a Joey logo for that Oz magic.  They run $90 for a shipped pair of the single op-amps and $150 for the duals.  If they can really outperform the 797's, then I will consider it money well spent.  
 

 
I snagged this pic from their website, so all us swabbies can appreciate what is going on inside and why they cost so much more than mass produced IC op-amps. This is going to be VERY interesting. The king of discreet op-amps vs. what I consider to be a top IC op-amp.  Much thanks to Dennis at Burson for hooking the Captain up.  The Bursons need many hours of burn in as compared to an IC op-amp, so an honest comparison will take me at least three or four weeks of near continuous play.  Stay tuned 'Mates, I got this!

 

[christian u]

  I like the sound of the H10 so well with the Hifiman HE-400i that I couldn't resist the urge to score the HE-560 at a nice price from a fellow head-fier.  I'll probably pass along my HE-400i at an equally nice price. They will need to go to a good home with someone who will appreciate my very careful grill and pad modifications.
 
I had another interesting listening session with Gustard X12 last night.  I was doing A- B comparisons to the Aune S16 and I was quite frustrated that with additional breakin, the X12 hadn't opened up that last bit that I thought it would.  Every time I switched to the S16, I was hearing a more relaxed, natural, life-like sound. This was all about soundstage and the ambience of the recording venue, because that is what I was focusing on and was the most apparent difference between the two. The Gustard was still sounding a little too forward, with somewhat flattened images and a treble that wasn't harsh, but did have a slightly overemphasized leading edge on plucked notes.  I left it alone and on continuous play for a few more hours and when I returned, I decided switch up the setup. For A-B comparisons I had the Gustard DAC sitting ontop of the H10 and my Rega Apollo-R transport perched ontop of the X12. The Gustard DAC was essentially sandwiched between two other components. The Aune S16 was sitting on the side, all by itself, with no other components above or below.  I now put the X12 by itself and the S16 went into the stack sandwich.  
 
Now back to the A-B comparison. I was using a very high resolution recording,  Carmen Gomes, Thousand Shades of Blue, Live Studio 11 recordings by Sound Liaison.  Wonderful ambient space, great vocal with hollow body electic guitar, upright bass and a cajon beat drum. Here is video of the actual recording session:   Now this is uber cool because you can see the set up in the studio to confirm what you're hearing and imagining on your headphones.  This time the difference between the two DACs was greatly diminshed. So much so that it made me really wonder what was happening to the DACs when sandwiched like that. I was also cognizant of the fact that I might just have hit the Jeckyl and Hyde point of the X12's breakin.  The H10 had done a similar mind bending transformation on me, so why should I be surprised if the X12 did the same.  I wasn't going to keep switching around the setup to confirm which of the two was really causing the audible changes, I was just happy and relieved to hear the X12 sounding so much better.
 
After more back and forth time with different music, I came to the conclusion that the little extra air and spatiousness of the S16 was really frequency response related. The S16 has a thinner lower midrange and more resticted bass than does the X12.  This makes the treble, where most of the ambient cues hang out, more noticeable in comparison. It wasn't retrieving any more detail, its just that those details were given something of a spotlight.   When I played tracks with deep and/or heavy bass, there was no question that the X12 had better control. It now even had superior sub-bass, which it lacked earlier in the breakin process.  The X12 has a richer midrange, which gives vocalists more chest register and to my ears that sounds more natural.  I am anxious to do this same comparison with the HE-560. From what I have been reading, it is less midrange dominant than the 400i, has more linear bass and a wider stage. If this is true, it should match perfectly with the X12 and I may like this combination much better than the Aune S16 with the 400i.

It  a wonderful recording indeed but the video is not from the actual recording session but from the Dutch Jazz TV.
The Thousand Shades of Blue download is recorded in front of a live audience as you can hear here;
 
And the sound is even better but you are probably right that this is more or less how they record;
Quote: from the liner notes http://www.soundliaison.com/

   
The 12 pieces of music were performed live in the studio in front of a studio audience. The musicians were placed in front of a stereo pair of microphones with additional spot microphones on each instrument. The musicians were playing without headphones, the reason being that we believe that when we get the musicians to play together in the same room,with out headphones, it creates a number of musical and technical benefits:
As they are not ''separated'' by the headphones, the musicians, in order to hear each other are forced to create a natural and musical balance, a balance which is then easily captured by the main stereo pair of microphones. Because of the natural and musical balance the need for compression to control levels is no longer necessary, and since everybody is in the same room,the boxed sound which is so common in many modern recordings is absent, and the sound of the room helps ''glue'' the sound of the recording.
This is all very well but there are also problematic aspects to this procedure:
The room, studio, has to have a good sound. The musicians have to be very good and well prepared as it is very difficult to repair mistakes because of the ''cross talk'' between the instruments, we have to be very precise when choosing and placing the microphones and the puzzle of placing the musicians at the right distance to the main stereo microphones and the right distance to each other, is also time consuming. And when we have a live audience in the studio, we pray that they remember to turn of their cell phones and the ones with a bad cold choose to stay at home. The room where the recordings has been done is the now legendary Studio Eleven situated in the the building of the Dutch World Broad Casting Service. The Studio was used extensively in the 60's by European and visiting American jazz musicians (Wes Montgomery, Cannonball Adderley, Dexter Gordon, Eric Dolphy.....). The Dutch World Broad Casting Service asked Frans de Rond to bring the room back to life as a recording studio, and Frans after seeing and hearing the room jumped at the opportunity. Sound Liaison has been allowed to use the room for our audiophile projects and we are eternally greatfull to the Dutch World Service for the opportunity.

Recorded in Studio Eleven (Hilversum) with a live audience on September 15, 2012.
This recording was made by Sound Liaison for and with lovers of high-end audio recordings.
The file is a one to one copy of the master file (96kHz/24bit).

 

[jerick70]

Bosun Swannie!    Let me start right off with a tip of the Captain's hat for the Shelby Lynne reccomendation. I just listened to the whole album of "Just a Little Lovin' " and it's been added to my ever growing songbird list.  Gorgeous voice, gorgeous songs and a superb recording!

I'm also very pleased to hear that my First Mate is trimming his jib with some tasty op-amps.  Isn't this fun!  We start off with an amp that is a stupid good performer at a ridiculously low price and then we can have fun personalizing its sound.  I noticed the enhancement of soundstaging the most with the 797/823 combo, followed closely be neutral tonal balance and clarity.   I would agree that the clarity really shows itself with bass tracks - no more amorphous washes of seemingly texture-less low bass, nope, a smorgasbord of  subtle tonalities.  Marcus Miller is definitely a great choice for electric bass listening along with my go to guy, Stanley Clark. For acoustic bass, my favorite  is Glen Moore playing his 1715 era Klotz double bass fiddle.

I'm not done with my op-amp swabbing. The 797BRZ/823 combination is a tough act to follow, but I'm keeping my mind and ears open to discovering some more ear-nectar.  Today is a very good swabbing day at Stu's place.  Arriving simultaneously are the dual 797BRZ's pre-mounted on adapters to try in place of the AD823's  and also a complete set of single and dual op-amps from the Burson boys in Oz.  






Its pretty cool how they put a 797BRZ on top and solder another one underneath in such a small package. Rather nicely done and very reasonably priced from Analog Metric in Hong Kong.  I got a pair delivered for $40.64.  The Burson Audio Supreme Sound Op-amps are very impressive to look at and even have a Joey logo for that Oz magic.  They run $90 for a shipped pair of the single op-amps and $150 for the duals.  If they can really outperform the 797's, then I will consider it money well spent.  




I snagged this pic from their website, so all us swabbies can appreciate what is going on inside and why they cost so much more than mass produced IC op-amps. This is going to be VERY interesting. The king of discreet op-amps vs. what I consider to be a top IC op-amp.  Much thanks to Dennis at Burson for hooking the Captain up.  The Bursons need many hours of burn in as compared to an IC op-amp, so an honest comparison will take me at least three or four weeks of near continuous play.  Stay tuned 'Mates, I got this!

Do tell. How do the Bursons sound in the H10?

 

[stuartmc]

Well, I'm pissed!  One of my dual 797BRZ's is DOA.  I'm going to have to get a replacement from Analog Metric and that should take another three weeks.  So...... I'm now going to go full boat with the Bursons.  I'm going to put in both sets and give them a good burn in. After they have stabilized, I will do a comparison to the 797/823 combo and then compare the single and dual versions separately.

 

[jackharm]

Speaking of analogmetric, according to the tracking number they gave me for the pair of 797BRZ's, they have arrived and been delivered to CERRITOS, CA . . . I live in Canada.

 
 
EDIT:

On the bright side, I too have some Bursons on their way to me (hopefully by the end of this week/mid next week).
 
Once they arrive I'll burn them for 5 days straight and report back with impressions/photos of them vs. the stock op-amps.

 

[stuartmc]

Speaking of analogmetric, according to the tracking number they gave me for the pair of 797BRZ's, they have arrived and been delivered to CERRITOS, CA . . . I live in Canada.  

EDIT:


On the bright side, I too have some Bursons on their way to me (hopefully by the end of this week/mid next week).

Once they arrive I'll burn them for 5 days straight and report back with impressions/photos of them vs. the stock op-amps.

The tracking is bizarre with analog metric. Don't let it bother you. Both times I have seen nothing on tracking for two weeks and then crazy stuff shows up. California is probably their preferred port of entry for north America. Usps will take over and hand off to Canada post.

 

[genclaymore]

The burson work very well in the gustard H10 for me over the op-amps I compared it to in the review I did. I currenty using the V5-OPA-D with the OPA627AU's and they work very nice together. I started try out some earlier combos i tried with the V5s in their place instead. It be a while before i try them again again.

 

[sunneebear]

  The burson work very well in the gustard H10 for me over the op-amps I compared it to in the review I did. I currenty using the V5-OPA-D with the OPA627AU's and they work very nice together. I started try out some earlier combos i tried with the V5s in their place instead. It be a while before i try them again again.

 
While the 627 sounded good in some other amps I've tried, they are too syrupy with the H10.  Haven't looked back since I put the Burson's in.

 

[bavinck]

Wow, that 797 swap sure cleaned up the low end. Didn't know it was so messy down there until I popped those in tonight. I guess I will try the 823s now as well. Also have the burson's v5s incoming, so a few of us will be able to comment on those. Burson is recommending 100hrs of burn in though, so it will take some time for considered reviews and impressions.

 

[MLegend]

So just to be sure, if i'm using the unbalanced connections are the rear op amps being utilized? Are they just for balanced? If I were to buy new opamps should I get both 797/823 if i'm using unbalanced or just 797?

 

[moriez]

Wow, that 797 swap sure cleaned up the low end. Didn't know it was so messy down there until I popped those in tonight.

 
Hi,
 
Do you find that the cleaner low end goes hand in hand with less perceived quantity? Any other impressions?