[ruthieandjohn]

   
 
Quote:
Hmm, I'm a bit confused with your choice being the PS1K if you had too keep just one HP after reading your opinion/scoring charts? 

That is what I was trying to explain in this part of my post above:

 I suspect that there are two factors that also contribute, which are not related to their acoustic attributes... comfort and appearance. I also think that I rate some attributes, such as sound stage, higher than the 25% of total that my way of adding up entails

 
Sound stage counts for more than the 25% of the total sound score it is weighted at (since everything is weighted equally when I just average the four acoustic scores), and two other non-acoustic factors, comfort and looks, also push the PS1000 higher than the scores would suggest.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  That is what I was trying to explain in this part of my post above:
 
Sound stage counts for more than the 25% of the total sound score it is weighted at (since everything is weighted equally when I just average the four acoustic scores), and two other non-acoustic factors, comfort and looks, also push the PS1000 higher than the scores would suggest.

Time for Version 2.0 of the Grado Master Ratings Chart!!

 

[ruthieandjohn]

 
Time for Version 2.0 of the Grado Master Ratings Chart!!

Yeah... add my three new headphones (SR325is, SR325i, and RS2e) and try to apply some weighting to the four feature ratings that make score match my preferences, (e.g., move the PS1000 higher). Maybe even add comfort and looks, which affect my ranking but do not appear!
 
(Be sure you brush your teeth after eating that popcorn, and wash the butter off your fingers before touching your headphones!)

 

[GreenBow]

  Strange, but for me, within the Prestige i series, 60i-125i sounded virtually identical out of my iPod Classic 160. With the exception of the bass diff in 60i/80i already posted. I didn't spend much time listening to 60i/80i/125i out of my desktop amps, as I don't believe in using a $600+ amp on a HP that costs $70-90 (CAM). Might hear diffs there, can't say. But these are so easy to drive, and their drivers are sonically constrained (being entry-levelers) it's a bit moot to use heavy-artillery amps. ymmv as always.
 
But I will say, that the "breakthrough" in sound improvement within the Prestige i bunch was the 225i. From there on up to 325i, I definitely think it was worth jumping onto the TGV! So, my humble advice is, if you're looking to upgrade from a 60i/80i, within the Prestige i series (there are still many around on the used markets), then consdier going for 225i. Of course, there are mods galore you can also try to tweak the SQ, with pad switching and tape mods being the most common and easiest.
 
cheers

Yeah I never focused on that before but I did think it, and think you have something. There is a comparison. For me the 125i was more detailed and subtle. Something that stood out, was that some notes or sounds drifted across the mix. (There was no entry point to them; they literally floated through.) That happens only rarely on the 225e.
 
I owned the SR60. Then I auditioned the 60 and 80, but they were not the i-series. The SR80 was fitted with L-cushion, (and had some serious top end clarity). I could hear the bow connecting the surface of a violin string on just my PocketDAB 1500, (at 150kbps broadcast). Amazing.
 
 

Originally Posted by lehoang15tuoi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
- 325is
(I'm buying it again, for the 3rd time)
- 325e
(great for almost all genres, exept New Age and Classical or anything that requires huge soundstage)
- PS500
(G Cushs for the win!)

Congratulations for going for another pair of 325is. Lol.
 
What you say about the 325e - ouch! Still highly ranked though!
What you say about the 500 - ouch ouch!
 
I was poised to get the 325e and I love classical music. I love just about every music type though.
 
What you say about the 500 though, double ouch. I was speculating this with the 500e, i.e. put G-cush on, and said so ages ago. However I think I will still go 325e.
 
I am not worried about sound stage. I think there is enough on the 225e. The 325e will not be a step backwards from the 225e, I am sure. There certainly is sound stage in the 225e, if you find the music for it. I like classical on the 225e.
 
Some say there is a little more brightness on the 325e. I think that might be because e.g. there's a response peak in a different place. I think it will be offset though with the improved bass on the 325, so I am happy about it.
 
(I have just bought a new cable to connect my DAC to my PC. I may wait until that arrives and gets run in. You can hear the difference straight away though with a good analogue cable, in my experience. )

 

[CanadianMaestro]

   
There certainly is sound stage in the 225e, if you find the music for it. I like classical on the 225e.  

+1. If I didn't have my other HPs, the 225i would have been the one for most of my classical listening. Clearer ambient cues and the highs are pristine with excellent imaging, for the price point.

 

[GreenBow]

I dug out What Hi-Fi's impressions of the SR225i. (NB. I recall they graded the SR225 with 4/5 stars.) Anyway,
 
"The 225s sound unlike any other headphone. They have an amazing solid presentation, packed with weight and presence. There is also a pleasant richness in the mid-range that benefits all types of music."
 
"When I comes to classical music, the Grados reproduce instruments with both believable timbre and solidity. The treble boosts fine detail and no hint of aggression. These Grados are hard to beat." 
 
(I think there is a little writing between the lines there though. For example What Hi-Fi say the SR60x, SR80i, and the SR325x are the best in class. Whereas the review of the 225 says 'hard to beat'.)
 
You can imagine how the e-series enhancements go with that anyway. I mean you never really see reviews of the 225. However I think the 225e is worth a visit for pro-reviewers.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

   
oh, the 325e.
Is there a sound variation between one person's 325e and other person's 325e. Because mine is excessively warm in tone.
It's not bassy or bloated or anything, it's just "sounds warm-ish in tone...".
 
Anyway the point being, as you probably remember many moons ago I said I can't listen to the old grado sr60 and the new sr80e anymore because of my vestibular neurinitis, and then I got 400i, the clamp force of that unit was really bad, so much so, that I bought the 325e ~a month later.
And back then I said lo and behold, whilst I can't listen to 80e for more than 15 minutes without inner ear pain, i can listen to 325e for hours and still feel fine. In fact, I listen to them like, almost everyday now.
On another note, the dt880 exaggerates the inner ear pain, it's even worse to my ear, the pain level than the sr80e.
 
the point of that tangent being, while sr325 model is supposedly the brightest of the bunch, my sr325e sounds quite warm in tone.
 
I don't know if all sr325e sounds the same or not, given the previous Mercuttio's rs1e and stacker's rs1i unit. It still confused me to This day that the sr325e is pain-free, for me. I assumed that is because it's tonally warm, probably.
 
But... may I ask how is the rs2e fare against sr325e for Female Vocals?
Not the Whitney Houston-range female vocals... more the middle and lower-register female vocals...?
Can't really give you examples because all my albums are Japanese, except this one English Duo from Sheffield. Probably Jazz Female Vocalist...
That's like... 70% of my consideration.

You have a real find for yourself in the SR325e.  When I did my tests of 13 Grados, because the -e version of the Prestige (SR) line as a whole has its treble toned down, it was completely indistinguishable, at least in my tests, from my SR225i.  The 225 is known as being "middle of the road" in brightness for the Grados, while the 325 (at least the earlier than e versions) is known as the brightest (the PS500 is the Least Bright).
 
So... you have in the SR325e the best headphone of the Prestige line, the one that has won the Consumer Reports accollade as "best headphone," yet you lose the painful brightness.
 
But I still prefer my RS2e... chart here shows I view the RS2i as having greater transparency, bass, soundstage, and treble detail ("pluck") than the SR325e, and the RS2e is even better than the RS2i that I measured (I didn't have my RS2e at the time I did this).
 

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

  Yeah I never focused on that before but I did think it, and think you have something. There is a comparison. For me the 125i was more detailed and subtle. Something that stood out, was that some notes or sounds drifted across the mix. (There was no entry point to them; they literally floated through.) That happens only rarely on the 225e.
 
I owned the SR60. Then I auditioned the 60 and 80, but they were not the i-series. The SR80 was fitted with L-cushion, (and had some serious top end clarity). I could hear the bow connecting the surface of a violin string on just my PocketDAB 1500, (at 150kbps broadcast). Amazing.
 
 
Congratulations for going for another pair of 325is. Lol.
 
What you say about the 325e - ouch! Still highly ranked though!
What you say about the 500 - ouch ouch!
 
I was poised to get the 325e and I love classical music. I love just about every music type though.
 
What you say about the 500 though, double ouch. I was speculating this with the 500e, i.e. put G-cush on, and said so ages ago. However I think I will still go 325e.
 
I am not worried about sound stage. I think there is enough on the 225e. The 325e will not be a step backwards from the 225e, I am sure. There certainly is sound stage in the 225e, if you find the music for it. I like classical on the 225e.
 
Some say there is a little more brightness on the 325e. I think that might be because e.g. there's a response peak in a different place. I think it will be offset though with the improved bass on the 325, so I am happy about it.
 
(I have just bought a new cable to connect my DAC to my PC. I may wait until that arrives and gets run in. You can hear the difference straight away though with a good cable, in my one experience. )

+1 on cable upgrade! I always go for one with Ferrite and it certainly makes a difference. You'd get more with better cables from DACs to amplifers too. 
 
I think the 325e will complement the PS500e very well. That said I prefer my PS500 to the e and also the 325is to the e, again. 
 
Regarding classical on Grados, I remember people in this thread (or the Grado FC thread) said the GS1000 is the one to go, however I never spent that much time with it to be sure. The RS1i and the MSPro (i series, I'm sure) also plays Classical extremely well for me. However if I do it again I'd go to the RS1i. The MSPro is too "defanged" in comparision to its brother, and that's a negative in my book. 

 

[stacker45]

  +1 on cable upgrade! I always go for one with Ferrite and it certainly makes a difference. You'd get more with better cables from DACs to amplifers too. 
 
I think the 325e will complement the PS500e very well. That said I prefer my PS500 to the e and also the 325is to the e, again. 
 
Regarding classical on Grados, I remember people in this thread (or the Grado FC thread) said the GS1000 is the one to go, however I never spent that much time with it to be sure. The RS1i and the MSPro (i series, I'm sure) also plays Classical extremely well for me. However if I do it again I'd go to the RS1i. The MSPro is too "defanged" in comparision to its brother, and that's a negative in my book. 

 
I agree, in my opinion, the first gen GS1000 have THE biggest soundstage of all Grados, and they do sound especially good with classical music. Fyi, I might be selling my first gen GS1000 here on Head-Fi, just in case someone is interrested.

 

[joseph69]

  That is what I was trying to explain in this part of my post above:
Sound stage counts for more than the 25% of the total sound score it is weighted at (since everything is weighted equally when I just average the four acoustic scores), and two other non-acoustic factors, comfort and looks, also push the PS1000 higher than the scores would suggest.

And I won't forget too brush my teeth/wash my hands before touching my Grados. 

 

[GreenBow]

  +1 on cable upgrade! I always go for one with Ferrite and it certainly makes a difference. You'd get more with better cables from DACs to amplifers too. 
 
I think the 325e will complement the PS500e very well. That said I prefer my PS500 to the e and also the 325is to the e, again. 
 
Regarding classical on Grados, I remember people in this thread (or the Grado FC thread) said the GS1000 is the one to go, however I never spent that much time with it to be sure. The RS1i and the MSPro (i series, I'm sure) also plays Classical extremely well for me. However if I do it again I'd go to the RS1i. The MSPro is too "defanged" in comparision to its brother, and that's a negative in my book. 

Thank you. To be honest I expected to be pulled apart claiming digital signals can be bettered with a quality cable. I paid £38 for this one. http://www.whathifi.com/furutech/formula-2/review There's actually very little info in this link about the cable itself. However it does say quote, "It even trumped Wireworld’s Ultraviolet 5 cable, our previous favourite". The reading on that cable says a lot, so I risked it. (I was also looking at Atlas Element USB cable.)
 
I only have a modest DAC at present, the Meridian Explorer. (I only paid £150 and it was £250 new on release.) However it makes some stunning sound. With the 225e, it does get fractionally congested sometimes somewhere in the upper mids. I am not sure what the issue is, but I am hoping the cable will clear some of that up. I can hear the shortcomings in this pairing as a whole, so the cable should help.
 
Just thinking out loud at this point. I.E. no longer reply to lehoang15tuoi
 
I do acknowledge I would do much better going with a better system. What Hi-Fi tie the 325e with the Audiolab M-DAC, and many say the M-DAC punches way over its price. (I know Audiolab from owning the 8000A and I respect them.) That I think, is where I would like to be. Shame the M-DAC only runs 96KHz asynchronously, so maybe better to wait for the next gen.
 
However I have the issue of trying to quieten down my PC. I built a gaming rig, which means it has fans in the front. There is always vague fan hiss and one HDD hisses too. Until I get those quiet, there is little point paying more for DAC next to PC using open-back Grado. Games are awesome though the DAC btw.
 
I mean overall I am tempted by the PS1000e as well for all listening. However I only recently read that the 1000e uses completely new larger drivers. I have read some stunning reviews of it. However I think I will hold off even contemplating it until more pro-reviews come along. Plus the price is hard to take, at £1700. Thus I am content to be aiming at the 325e/RS2e range.
 
While I am a classical music enthusiast it's not my main musical focus, as I don't have one. I love it though, and I have A level Music, (of which A level is 16-18yr old education in the UK.)
 
Even though I expected hassle for mentioning getting a quality USB cable, I did think it worth mentioning. Someone else with a DAC mihgt not have considered it.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

 
Thank you. To be honest I expected to be pulled apart claiming digital signals can be bettered with a quality cable.
Even though I expected hassle for mentioning getting a quality USB cable, I did think it worth mentioning. Someone else might have a DAC and not even considered it.

For digital audio, the critical performance criterion is the 75-ohm impedance spec of the connectors and cable. If your DAC has a BNC jack, go for 75-ohm BNC connectors. With USB, it's 90 ohms spec.  In general, the impedance matching is important with digital transmission.
 
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/digitalanalog.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/impedance.htm

 

[ruthieandjohn]

  For digital audio, the critical performance criterion is the 75-ohm impedance spec of the connectors and cable. If your DAC has a BNC jack, go for 75-ohm BNC connectors. With USB, it's 90 ohms spec.  In general, the impedance matching is important with digital transmission.
 
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/digitalanalog.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/impedance.htm

How does digital transmission fail with (slightly) mismatched impedance?  Seems to me the only failure is an increase in bit error rate, which unless the USB or other digital port has error correction, would COMPLETELY ruin any sound, all at once (not a gradual degradation).
 
Never mind... I will read the articles, which purport to answer this question (still skeptical, but articles look long and perhaps have a lot).

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  How does digital transmission fail with (slightly) mismatched impedance?  Seems to me the only failure is an increase in bit error rate, which unless the USB or other digital port has error correction, would COMPLETELY ruin any sound, all at once (not a gradual degradation).

 
Signal reflections, and rounding of square waves, can occur with Z mismatches.
Enough. Back to Grados....

 

[headwhacker]

RS2e for me has the best price/performance ratio. To my ears, it has better detail retrieval overall than 325e and has an edge when it come to bass performance over RS1e. PS500 while sounds good has strayed way farther from a typical grado sound signature. GS1000 and the RS2e seems similar to me overall but with a slightly bigger soundstage. I have yet to hear the PS1000 but the jump in price is just ridiculous considering how close each headphone sound like starting with 325e (or maybe 225e). 
 
The 325e having metal cups is heavy and the not comfortable for long listening sessions. The RS2e ticked all the right boxes in comfort and sound quality. The 30% discount offered by the local distributor made me sell my 325e and get the RS2e recently. Now I'm back into rocking with a grado can. ( I was force to abandon 325e before due to discomfort after 30 minutes in my head)