[seeteeyou]

It somewhat depends on whether the SoC of X7 could support storage options via SATA protocol or otherwise. If that particular option wasn't provided by the SoC to begin with, no dice for internal mSATA and we've gotta call it a day.
 
FWIW Calyx was that close to the production of M but they could still manage to scratch the Wi-Fi module and replace that with an additional slot for storage. Maybe it's a quite different story for X7 so let's wait and see.

 

[Mython]

Regarding size, Samsung is the market leader, and their EVO 840 mSATA drives appear to be of a consistent size (0.14 x 2.0 x 1.18 inches    /    3.6 x 50 x 30 mm):
 

 
(click to enlarge)
 
 
...this exact product being visible in the previously-posted SD size comparison pic, posted by blackwolf1006:
 

 
I'm not going to pretend that it's tiny, but then neither is it enormous, considering that in order to match it's 1TB capacity, one would have to have 2 SD cards, and pay 2.5x - 3x the cost.
 
.

 

[Dobrescu George]

i understand that if fiio already decided that they would not put msata, they would not, but they might decided it as a possibility. because msata would be better, even for china.
 
@olddude : you might not need more storage space, but for me, 2Xmicrosd barely fits my needs. i listen to a LOT of music, from a LOT of different generas. From classical, to metal to grind to electronic. And my collection exapnds daily.
 
i still hope that it can be done. The techonolgy is avalaible, and has been for some time.

 

[headwhacker]

  i understand that if fiio already decided that they would not put msata, they would not, but they might decided it as a possibility. because msata would be better, even for china.
 
@olddude : you might not need more storage space, but for me, 2Xmicrosd barely fits my needs. i listen to a LOT of music, from a LOT of different generas. From classical, to metal to grind to electronic. And my collection exapnds daily.
 
i still hope that it can be done. The techonolgy is avalaible, and has been for some time.

Dude 2x128 of space. I doubt you can listen to all the music you put in there in one day even if you listen 24 hour straight.
 
Also you are not technically limited  in terms of storage. You can swap as many SD card as you can.

 

[Dobrescu George]

  Dude 2x128 of space. I doubt you can listen to all the music you put in there in one day even if you listen 24 hour straight.
 
Also you are not technically limited  in terms of storage. You can swap as many SD card as you can.

i don't want to swap microsd cards. i enjoy myself having all my collection with me. i barely can fit 25% of my collection in lossless....

 

[davidcotton]

Again, I agree with all of your points. Maybe this isn't the thread for it but I'm trying to understand how mSata would be implemented as a quick removal storage solution without making the unit too large. I realize that 'too large' is completely subjective but it seems like FiiO wants to keep the profile slim-ish in their target design. .

This may be better in another topic, but one of the things that was found in the ipod modding section was that a 1tb modded ipod didn't have the battery capacity to handle large transfers and resulted in a corruption of the drive once a certain amount had been copied over that meant a reformat before carrying on.  Either transferring the files from the mainboard of the pc direct or using a firewire and usb charger was necessary to complete the transfer.  Under 1tb doesn't seem to be an issue.  Msata also drains battery quicker than sd cards (for obvious reasons).  Whilst we as enthusiasts would be aware of such issues and know what to do, for members of the public they expect to be able to plug in the new shiny mp3 player they've just bought and copy files over.
 
That being said the new Aurendar (or however you spell it) device does have an msata slot so it looks like it could well be possible in future devices.  The profile of the msata drives are nice and slim so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[alnilam]

I sincerely hope that FiiO will include mSATA (or m.2) slot in X7. And what if not? Well, 500GB/1TB storage space in a (reasonably) portable audio player is not really a problem that cannot be solved in one way or the other:
 
(1) Android-smartphone with good audio and USB OTG + USB Flash or SATA HD/SSD
 
(2) DIY audio player, based on Raspberry Pi, or on one of the similar boards (as a matter of fact, Solid-Run HummingBoard i2ex features mSATA slot), sure it's a headache to do it properly, but hey everything is possible in this brave post-Apple-iPod world!
 
(3) Mini notebook or tablet with SATA/mSATA
 
I understand and appreciate all those mSATA (m.2) implementation related difficulties/challenges/risks for FiiO, but if not to beat the impossible odds and win, what else good engineers are for.

 

[reihead]

After many months... Back to the mSATA debate.

I agree it would be awesome, now I understood that the SOC doesn't support it. The implementation would be more complicated and would use even more power.

Maybe next gen...

 

[olddude]

  Dude 2x128 of space. I doubt you can listen to all the music you put in there in one day even if you listen 24 hour straight.
 
Also you are not technically limited  in terms of storage. You can swap as many SD card as you can.

20,000 mp3 files at an average of 4 minutes per track.    That's 80,000 minutes of music.  Divide that by 60 minutes (an hour).  That's 1333.333 hours.  Divide that by 24 (hours in a day).  That's 55.55 DAYS of 24 hour listening.  Don't listen 24 hours a day?  Gotta charge the battery?  OK, how about 8 hours a day?  That's 166.66 DAYS of 8 hours a day listening.  Just about a HALF-YEAR of never hearing the same song twice.  
 
Now I understand the idea that you can carry ALL your music around with you.  And you can choose whatever little bit of it you want (if you can find it/get to it) exactly when you want to.  But at a certain point, for a portable system, it seems to me that this becomes merely a wish to have it all.  At home I surely think that putting your library on a drive can make sense (I'm still in the horse and buggy days, I like my media solid), but then of course you need to back it up in case of corruption or loss.  But in a portable carry-around unit, at some point this becomes (to my mind and not wishing to offend anyone) simply a matter of collecting and having it all.  There's no way (see above) you can possibly listen to it all.  No one has that time.  Multiple cards make, to me, a lot more sense.  And I don't even want to get into the whole mp3/lossless thing again, as that will devolve the conversation even more.  But surely you folks can see that the quest for as many music files as you can get on your device will have no end?  Having 2-128 cards is not enough?  OK, 2-256 cards then?  Not enough?  Now we are reading about folks wanting 1TB drives.  What's next, bigger than that?  It will never end.
 
This is a portable device that seems to have been built to carry a reasonable (put your own definition on that word) amount of music around.  Either a whole bunch of lossy or a more limited amount of lossless.  It is an audiophile device yet it can also play lossy compressed files.  We seem to have two camps, the mp3 I want it all on there group and the I want it to sound as good as possible group.  We are never going to agree, which is fine.  But this constant discussion/demand for more space in a portable device is getting pretty out there.  

 

[alnilam]

...
This is a portable device that seems to have been built to carry a reasonable (put your own definition on that word) amount of music around.  Either a whole bunch of lossy or a more limited amount of lossless.  It is an audiophile device yet it can also play lossy compressed files.  We seem to have two camps, the mp3 I want it all on there group and the I want it to sound as good as possible group.  We are never going to agree, which is fine.  But this constant discussion/demand for more space in a portable device is getting pretty out there.  

 
If I were a FiiO decision maker, I would try not to make assumptions (like headwhacker and olddude do) regarding what users are supposed to do, in what way they are supposed to listen to their music, what their real needs are (as opposed to what they themselves think they are), how much space they really need and all that.
 
I would simply respectfully acknowledge their existence and desires, without trying to impose my own views and listening practices upon them.
 
It is perfectly fine with me, if FiiO decides to produce just another storage space-limited audio player - it's their business, and it's their profit or loss.
 
And, when the time comes, it will be my business and decision, whether or not to buy FiiO X7.

 

[Mython]

   
It is perfectly fine with me, if FiiO decides to produce just another storage space-limited audio player - it's their business, and it's their profit or loss.
 
And, when the time comes, it will be my business and decision, whether or not to buy FiiO X7.

 
 
Agree 100%.
 
 
 
There are plenty of audiophile DAPs.
 
There are almost zero audiophile DAPs that offer serious storage capacity for a wide range of hi-res music.
 
I can think of no other single feature which would most differentiate a new player from all the current DAPs on the marketplace, regardless of their price-point.
 
 
.

 

[olddude]

"what users are supposed to do"   Where did I say anyone should do what I say?  Point it out, please.
 
"I would simply respectfully acknowledge their existence and desires"  I did that as well: "We seem to have two camps, the mp3 I want it all on there group and the I want it to sound as good as possible group.  We are never going to agree, which is fine."
 
What I did say is that the requests for space, at least on this thread, are exponentially increasing.  And I questioned when that will end.  At what point is there enough storage space?
 
Here: "We are never going to agree, which is fine.  But this constant discussion/demand for more space in a portable device is getting pretty out there."
 
"f I were a FiiO decision maker, I would try not to make assumptions (like olddude does) regarding what users are supposed to do, in what way they are supposed to listen to their music, what their real needs are (as opposed to what they themselves think they are), how much space they really need and all that."  
 
Fiio is in business, and is selling music-playing devices to a variety of consumers (mostly in China).  It has to decide what to make, how to make it, what the consumer base wants, and whether the device will hold up under repeated uses.  It also has to make a profit and compete against other device makers.  So it looks at costs of parts, and assembly costs, and factors in size and quality and fit, and tries to meet as many of the demands of consumers as it possibly can without diluting the device so that no one is happy with it.  So if mp3 users want to put 20,000 files on it, and lossless users want the most incredible sound possible, Fiio has to figure out, to some degree, how to make both groups happy.  And, so far, with the X1, X3 and X5 it has.  I assume that, with the X7 it will as well.  My point, which I tried to present in as clear a way as possible, is that this is a portable device and there is limited physical space, and asking for virtually unlimited storage space is a bit out there.
 

 

[alnilam]

... My point, which I tried to present in as clear a way as possible, is that this is a portable device and there is limited physical space, and asking for virtually unlimited storage space is a bit out there.

 
I beg to differ.
 
Portable device or not, with mSATA/m.2 memory options there is no such thing as 'limited physical space', not anymore.
 
When there is mSATA (or m.2) slot and support in audio player, the storage space finally becomes a non-issue, users can buy and use as many mSATA/m.2 SSD modules as they require (in case if just one is not enough).
 
It's not 'unlimited storage space in portable player' we are talking about here - just a reasonable storage space for those, who have had enough copying files back and forth, undertaking endless space management tasks etc.

 

[Mython]

Let's not get personal or argumentative, here, any of us. We're just chatting, amicably, right?

 
We're all enthusiastic about the possibilities of a sweet new DAP.
 
Fiio will do whatever they feel is viable for their new flagship.
 
It is very evident that any new Hi-res DAP that promotes itself as DSD and 24/192 capable really needs to walk-the-talk by providing proper storage capacity options to support such large files.
 
It's not good enough to build a Ferrari with a 2 gallon fuel tank, and say "Don't worry about the small fuel capacity; you can easily keep re-filling the tank".
 
This analogy applies as much to Hi-res music storage as it does to battery life. If 256gb and 512gb SD cards were economical, then a certain amount of 'hot-swapping' would be (reluctantly) viable, but these large-capacity SD cards, at several hundred dollars apiece, are outrageously expensive.
 
What most of us can agree upon is that yes, implementing storage options like mSATA might be difficult, and yes, it might take up a little more physical space (and I openly concede that I am someone who prefers DAPs to be as compact as possible), but...
 
(speaking for myself) there are far too many DAPs on the market that offer Hi-Res playback but fail miserably to back this up with appropriate storage capacity. Is the X7 going to make this same old mistake, or will it offer something new to encourage audiophiles to buy an X7 instead of a competing product?
 
 
 
 
...incidentally, with all due respect to everyone chatting here, I don't personally feel that it is realistic to quote mp3 file sizes for a flagship DSD-capable audiophile DAP. We're talking about high-end playback with this $699 flagship device, which means, at the very least, 16-44.1 flac, for many of us looking at the X7 for audiophile purposes.
 

---

 
@ James / Fiio:
 
I realise that this discussion about mSATA is uncomfortable for you, because it's not easy to implement, and there are size constraints, too. I totally respect that fact, and I will understand if you do not feel able to achieve it, but there are those of us who are tired of Hi-Res capable DAPs which lack sufficient storage for decent Hi-Res music collections, and who will wait until a DAP manufacturer finally 'bites-the-bullet' and works hard to provide serious storage capacity. It's only a matter of time before a manufacturer does this, because there is definitely a demand for it.
 
If mSATA is too difficult, then perhaps you could consider offering 512gb or 1TB onboard storage?
 
I don't mean this as the only specification - I mean offering the X7 in more than one specification, with a (fair) higher asking price to cover the cost of more onboard storage, for those customers who wish to pay for it (as an old example, Cowon offered their J3 player in both 16gb and 32gb options).
 
.

 

[seeteeyou]

X7 and PQ Labs iStick A350-SSD (with mSATA slot) turned out to be sharing the same RK3188 SoC so that's still somewhat hopeful.
 
The temperature of 1TB mSATA looked OK, just higher than SATA version because of the difference between the sizes