[Mython]

  The main problem for msata drives is heat build up on larger file transfers.  Over in the ipod modding section there are consistent reports of heat build up during 30-40 gig transfers.

 
 
OK, but really - how often does one need to transfer 30gb or more?
 
Once the drive is loaded-up with the bulk of a person's music collection, any updates are likely to be in incremental chunks of maybe a couple of gbs.
 
Generally, one only needs to frequently transfer very large amounts of music if a drive is too small to hold a complete music collection, and one wishes to keep changing it for the sake of variety, but with 500gb or 1TB of capacity, what goes on the drive can mostly stay on the drive permanently, with just incremental additions, as subsequent albums are purchased.
 
So, if we all have to be very careful when loading-up our mSATA drives, initially, then I think that's OK.

 

[x RELIC x]

Does mSata have any history of failure? I can only imagine a drive failure and rendering the unit a brick as a bad thing. Honestly, I don't know.

 

[Mython]

Does mSata have any history of failure? I can only imagine a drive failure and rendering the unit a brick as a bad thing. Honestly, I don't know.

 
mSATA is a removable type of drive - why do you foresee an mSATA drive bricking itself or the rest of the DAP?
 
Solid state drives are just as reliable, overall, as any other kind of chip memory, though each type has its specific pros and cons.
 
I've had 2 iPod Classics in my life and both had HDDs that died. My 32gb onboard + 64gb SD solid state memory Cowon J3, on the other hand, has served me flawlessly for well over 3 years.

 

[Mython]

One thing you can be absolutely sure of is that sooner or later one of the DAP vendors will embrace mSATA (or m.2) in their flagship DAP, and when they do, they will make a killing.
 
Fiio have a perfect opportunity to be that first vendor, and reap the rewards for giving Hi-res audiophile DAP fans what they really want.

 

[x RELIC x]

mSATA is a removable type of drive - why do you foresee an mSATA drive bricking itself or the rest of the DAP?

Solid state drives are just as reliable, overall, as any other kind of chip memory, though each type has its specific pros and cons.

I've had 2 iPod Classics in my life and both had HDDs that died. My 32gb onboard + 64gb SD solid state memory Cowon J3, on the other hand, has served me flawlessly for well over 3 years.

I don't forsee it, I was asking a question. The first rule with large databases it to back up because drives fail. I know that unlike magnetic drives you can not simply write and rewrite to the same sectors on the solid state drive multiple times. Over time it may become unstable or the available space will be reduced. Just wondering if this is a factor in real world usage or a non-issue. If said drive is not replaceable that may be an issue. Or it may not be. Looking for some education here.

Edit: I didn't know mSata was replaceable given its relative size to mSD. So I guess never mind.

 

[Mython]

Edit: I didn't know mSata was replaceable given its relative size to mSD. So I guess never mind.

 
 
It was a fair question, and I didn't mean to sound confrontational at all

 
 
As for the replaceable aspect of mSATA - my perspective on requesting mSATA for the X7 is that Fiio would sell the X7 without any mSATA installed, so that, just like other memory card slots, the DAP customer can choose when, and how much, they spend money on increasing their storage capacity.
 
Since the amp modules will already be replaceable, it would be fantastic if they implemented an mSATA drive bay.
 
I appreciate that it's quite a big ask for James' team to implement it, but the company would be very well rewarded for the effort, and the customer would be very well rewarded for the effort, too.

 

[x RELIC x]

It was a fair question, and I didn't mean to sound confrontational at all


As for the replaceable aspect of mSATA - my perspective on requesting mSATA for the X7 is that Fiio would sell the X7 without any mSATA installed, so that, just like other memory card slots, the DAP customer can choose when, and how much, they spend money on increasing their storage capacity.

Since the amp modules will already be replaceable, it would be fantastic if they implemented an mSATA drive bay.

I appreciate that it's quite a big ask for James' team to implement it, but the company would be very well rewarded for the effort, and the customer would be very well rewarded for the effort, too.

I agree, first to market would be fantastic for them. I just don't know how the company would look at the risk/reward aspect of it. Given the size compared to mSD would the unit need to be opened up to add the mSata storage in order to keep the unit a reasonable size? If so I don't think it would be met with warm fuzzy feelings from everyone. Unless I'm off on the size and power draw of the mSata storage this could be the reason it isn't considered.

 

[Mython]

Unless I'm off on the size and power draw of the mSata storage this could be the reason it isn't considered.

 
 
Sure, I think most of us realise that implementing mSATA in the X7 would present certain challenges, and the power draw might be greater. It won't be totally simple, or it would already have been done by one of the DAP makers.
 
But considering how complex the rest of the DAP is, I would think Fiio could tackle the challenge of implementation and succeed, provided they have the encouragement, and the will, to make the effort.
 
The Calyx-M is an interesting DAP, and D&A clearly made a serious effort to bring a DAP to market which offered more to audiophiles than what was already on the market. But I don't think they quite succeeded in the final result.
 
Fiio's X7 could, potentially, be a more successful bite at a similar cherry - an Android-based high-end-but-sensibly-priced feature-rich device.
 
Fiio are an intelligent company, and there is no doubt that they will be keen to differentiate their flagship from competitors' flagship devices...

 

[Dobrescu George]

power draw is a little more than SD cards. the unit can have a slot, that would look similar to a SD card slot. i would not direcrly say this, but mSATA most of times does not go wrong. the heat problem, would not be a problem as long as we stick to usb 2.0, to keep the transfers as cool as possible. [it would be in our interest, right?]
 
the batterry could suffer from this, but not a major setback, something around 5% less.. it consumes less than a HDD, around what a SD consumes, maybe more. not much more.
 
it would be a bless, considering that microsd cards are a long way to come near 512gb-1tb already existing in mSATA. On the other hand, the file type would have to remain fat32. 

 

[x RELIC x]

Sure, I think most of us realise that implementing mSATA in the X7 would present certain challenges, and the power draw might be greater. It won't be totally simple, or it would already have been done by one of the DAP makers.

But considering how complex the rest of the DAP is, I would think Fiio could tackle the challenge of implementation and succeed, provided they have the encouragement, and the will, to make the effort.

The Calyx-M is an interesting DAP, and D&A clearly made a serious effort to bring a DAP to market which offered more to audiophiles than what was already on the market. But I don't think they quite succeeded in the final result.

Fiio's X7 could, potentially, be a more successful bite at a similar cherry - an Android-based high-end-but-sensibly-priced feature-rich device.

Fiio are an intelligent company, and there is no doubt that they will be keen to differentiate their flagship from competitors' flagship devices...

Again, I agree with all of your points. Maybe this isn't the thread for it but I'm trying to understand how mSata would be implemented as a quick removal storage solution without making the unit too large. I realize that 'too large' is completely subjective but it seems like FiiO wants to keep the profile slim-ish in their target design. .

 

[Dobrescu George]

Again, I agree with all of your points. Maybe this isn't the thread for it but I'm trying to understand how mSata would be implemented as a quick removal storage solution without making the unit too large. I realize that 'too large' is completely subjective but it seems like FiiO wants to keep the profile slim-ish in their target design. .

it takes the same place a SD card would take. it can be inserted and taken out like it. with some caution when doing this, it is just a SD card. It would not be microSD, but close to SD can be implemented without making the unit too big or anything...
 
let's hope that the circuits can be put in by fiio. the circuits are different from SD cards, they are more similar to hdds

 

[altrunox]

  power draw is a little more than SD cards. the unit can have a slot, that would look similar to a SD card slot. i would not direcrly say this, but mSATA most of times does not go wrong. the heat problem, would not be a problem as long as we stick to usb 2.0, to keep the transfers as cool as possible. [it would be in our interest, right?]
 
the batterry could suffer from this, but not a major setback, something around 5% less.. it consumes less than a HDD, around what a SD consumes, maybe more. not much more.
 
it would be a bless, considering that microsd cards are a long way to come near 512gb-1tb already existing in mSATA. On the other hand, the file type would have to remain fat32. 

 
You would need days to fill it the first time, maybe USB 3.0 and when you plug something in it, the X7 shut down?

 

[seeteeyou]

1st one by Tarkan, 2nd one by Aurender
 

 

 

[x RELIC x]

Looking quickly around the web it seems that different storge capacities for mSata results in vastly different sizes for each card. This is fine for a computer or external unit, but I imagine it would be very difficult to design a DAP that would be able to accommodate the differences. Is there a standard size? Also, the smallest size is larger than a full size SD card, which James has already stated is too large for their design spec.

Sorry for beating this to death but I'm trying to understand the difficulties from a production/cost/form factor perspective as it would be a great forward thinking tech to incorporate. I just don't think we are there yet.

 

[olddude]

And don't forget that not everyone wants a huge memory in a player.  I have no desire to up the size, shorten the battery life, and have a bunch of unused space.  
 
This gets back to the needs of the users (and keep in mind that the core group of users in, apparently, China) which seems to be divided between those that want to carry around every song they own and/or ever want to listen to "at their fingertips"  and those that want something that has incredible fidelity and will play a rather finite amount of excellent-sounding files.  
 
Besides which, the device is already in beta, so this conversation is quite likely, well, moot.