[bowei006]

  Can FiiO upload a guide for how to get the E17k Working with ASIO drivers for DSD playback and 32bit playback. I've been trying to get these to work and to no avail.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/615404/downloading-and-installation-guide-for-fiio-e17-asio-driver-the-beta-version#post_8482654
 
ASIO were really only useful for a time when computers had low resources. And thus exclusive programs used it to give the program the audio quality that it was designed to.
 

 It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance.

 
 
WASAPI is much better than ASIO. Use WASAPI And while it can't increase playback quality, it 'ensures' it to be bit perfect and has muting. Use it instead. Instructions below.
 

---

 

HOW TO CHOOSE PLAYER IN FOOBAR:

 
In Foobar, you can just check the drop down menu for Playback and then choose Output.
 
You just change the Output Device to whatever you want.
 

 

 

HOW TO WASAPI IN FOOBAR:

Download WASAPI
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
 
How to install the component?
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Foobar2000:How_to_install_a_component
Very easy.
 
Then restart and same steps as above. 
 
Now in the output place...select WASAPI

 
PUSH or EVENT?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI_Event_Style
 
PUSH works with all devices while EVENT only with some newer ones. Use EVENT if you hear no audio problems. USE push otherwise. Data is the same for all. If you are unsure, just choose PUSH.
 
REMEMBER: This doesn't make music better. It only ensures it.

---

 

HOW TO SET SAMPLE RATE AND DEPTH

 
The E17K supports up to 96KHz/32bit
 
To get this, its pretty simple
 
1: Right click on your volume control and click playback devices
 
Then
 

 
2: set your E17K as default if it isn't already. Then click properties as outlined.
 

 
3: Go to Supported Formats. Uncheck ALL of the encoded formats. Check the sample rates that I have checked. The E17K should be able to do 32KHz...but audio enthusiasts buying this unit probably shouldn't have that sample rate.
 

 
4:Go to Advanced and set Default Format to what I have. It HAS to be 32bit and 96000Hz.
 
Then check both exclusive mode boxes
 
 
NOTE: This only works if you aren't using WASAPI or exclusive applications. If you use WASAPI. Your E17K will auto change to whatever the song is rather than have it defaulted to this.
 

---

 
If this helped you. Feel free to give it an upvote (bottom right corner of this post) 

 

[JBHorne]

Considering the E17K vs E17/E09K combo, which will drive HD600's better?

 

[bowei006]

Considering the E17K vs E17/E09K combo, which will drive HD600's better?

The E09K probably
 
do realize FiiO is working on the new E09S and will be releasing it in the future
 
The E17K will be docking into it through the standard USB on the bottom. 
 
The prices should be the same...should. Not guaranteed

 

[SwordSaintSSX]

@bowei006

I friggin love you. Big thanks for that, I really appreciate it. 

I'm stilling getting a test tone error when I try and get 32bit Audio to play though, any more ideas for trouble shooting? 
@JBHorne

I'm running my HD 650 through the Line Out on the E17k to the E09k. I use to (and still own due to the optical in) E17. I found there's a noticeable clarity and more neutral difference in the E17k over the E17. I'm not sure how important that trait is for the HD 600 since the HD 600 is more neutral than the 650, but it did make my 650 more resolving and more neutral. 
 

 

[SwordSaintSSX]

I also noticed when going online to hunt for the proper E17k drivers that I haven't found much success. Anyone fairing better than me?

 

[Adamek]

http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/31
Bottom, right side.

 

[SwordSaintSSX]

NVM Found the Drivers Download button, silly me didn't see them on the bottom right hand corner. Problems solved.

 

[YedPed]

Hey, I have a few questions (newbie here).
- live in UK so ~100GBP (added price)
- I own a pair of shure 535s and an ath-m50x
- listen at home + uni
- 320kbps library
- don't really listen on the go
- use iphone (although I don't really plan on listening it through this)
- never used a DAC before
 
sorry for going a bit off topic.
is this DAC primarily plug and play? or do I need to set up that wasabi thing that bowei mentioned earlier to fully utilise uni PCs?
is it a good choice for first buy? money really isnt that much of an issue however I don't want to overspend as im still new to this
 
thx in advance, cheers 

 

[SwordSaintSSX]

  Hey, I have a few questions (newbie here).
- live in UK so ~100GBP (added price)
- I own a pair of shure 535s and an ath-m50x
- listen at home + uni
- 320kbps library
- don't really listen on the go
- use iphone (although I don't really plan on listening it through this)
- never used a DAC before
 
sorry for going a bit off topic.
is this DAC primarily plug and play? or do I need to set up that wasabi thing that bowei mentioned earlier to fully utilise uni PCs?
is it a good choice for first buy? money really isnt that much of an issue however I don't want to overspend as im still new to this
 
thx in advance, cheers 

The DAC is USB plug and play, if you are running primarily an MP3 library and you need an upgrade to the sound quality I can recommend it.

The set up Bowei linked is only really important for those of us who have invested heavily into the DSD format

 

[AUserName501]

 

Considering the E17K vs E17/E09K combo, which will drive HD600's better?

 
E17k can drive the HD600 fine. The HD600 may be high impedance but it's also high sensitivity. Only requires 0.17mW to reach 90dB SPL. E17 can get the HD600 very loud.
 

Spoiler: Quote: bowei006

Originally Posted by bowei006 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

http://www.head-fi.org/t/615404/downloading-and-installation-guide-for-fiio-e17-asio-driver-the-beta-version#post_8482654
 
ASIO were really only useful for a time when computers had low resources. And thus exclusive programs used it to give the program the audio quality that it was designed to.
 
 
 
WASAPI is much better than ASIO. Use WASAPI And while it can't increase playback quality, it 'ensures' it to be bit perfect and has muting. Use it instead. Instructions below.
 

---

 

HOW TO CHOOSE PLAYER IN FOOBAR:

 
In Foobar, you can just check the drop down menu for Playback and then choose Output.
 
You just change the Output Device to whatever you want.
 

 

 

HOW TO WASAPI IN FOOBAR:

Download WASAPI
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
 
How to install the component?
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Foobar2000:How_to_install_a_component
Very easy.
 
Then restart and same steps as above. 
 
Now in the output place...select WASAPI

 
PUSH or EVENT?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI_Event_Style
 
PUSH works with all devices while EVENT only with some newer ones. Use EVENT if you hear no audio problems. USE push otherwise. Data is the same for all. If you are unsure, just choose PUSH.
 
REMEMBER: This doesn't make music better. It only ensures it.

---

 

HOW TO SET SAMPLE RATE AND DEPTH

 
The E17K supports up to 96KHz/32bit
 
To get this, its pretty simple
 
1: Right click on your volume control and click playback devices
 
Then
 

 
2: set your E17K as default if it isn't already. Then click properties as outlined.
 

 
3: Go to Supported Formats. Uncheck ALL of the encoded formats. Check the sample rates that I have checked. The E17K should be able to do 32KHz...but audio enthusiasts buying this unit probably shouldn't have that sample rate.
 

 
4:Go to Advanced and set Default Format to what I have. It HAS to be 32bit and 96000Hz.
 
Then check both exclusive mode boxes
 
 
NOTE: This only works if you aren't using WASAPI or exclusive applications. If you use WASAPI. Your E17K will auto change to whatever the song is rather than have it defaulted to this.
 

---

 
If this helped you. Feel free to give it an upvote (bottom right corner of this post) 

 

 
As WASAPI bypasses the Windows mixer shouldn't it automatically select the correct bit depth and sample rate. If the music you're playing is an unsupported sample rate by the USB DAC then it won't play.

 

[tugsthebugs]

tugsthebugs, think about this, the E18 is bigger and heavier than the E17K, and the extra weight becomes a pain after a while.

My FiiO E12 Mont Blanc is the 'same' size and 'weight' as the FiiO E18. I have found that my FiiO E12 Amp is too bulky and heavy and inconvenient to carry around, so keep that in mind; after the novelty of a portable Amp wears-off, i think you might quickly come to the same conclusion as me. I have found that the E17K is much more portable and more convenient, not too bulky or heavy.

The E18 weighs nearly the same as your Galaxy Note 2. As if the Galaxy Note 2 isn't heavy enough, and already heavier than nearly every smartphone, you now will have the equivalent of two Galaxy Note 2s to carry around in one pocket. Becomes a pain after a while, just giving you a friendly heads-up.

Also, FiiO at there site says this... "Owing to differences in smartphone firmware, newer smartphones may require installation of 3rd party music players to work with the E18 as a DAC.

But, consider this, FiiO knows very well that the E17K will also work with the third-party app, and many Android phones will work natively with the E17K, so why is FiiO trying to steer you away from the E17K? So, even FiiO is still not giving a definite answer about this whole matter. And then they tell you... "After our test, the E17K may not be compatible with the Galaxy Note 2 by the USB connection."

Huh? "May not" Will it or wont it, FiiO??? They know it is more than likely compatible! Why are they saying these ambiguous statements? Ask yourself. Before they were telling me in my email that the E17K and E18 have the same theoretical functionality. Theoretical means what? Try getting rid of the cunning use of wording FiiO, and just say "Same functionality". Ask yourself why they wont just give you and me and all of us a simple straight answer, and why they have told me something different and others something else.

They even said in this thread that the E17K will draw power from the phone player, but then they send me an email saying it wont draw power because it has its own battery. Do you see what i mean?

Many times they have had to admit that the E17K does the same thing as the E18, but then they keep trying to subtly steer us toward the E18.

Here's what i think is happening. FiiO has admitted that the E17K and E18 have the same functionality, but in order to sell more E18s they have simply chosen not to test the E17K with any phones so that they don't have to admit that the E17K and E18 both have equal chance of working with Android OTG. If i can track-down an OTG micro usb to micro usb cable, i'll nearly bet my life that the E17K will happily work with Android OTG functionality without issue.

If i myself was in FiiO's position, i would give a very straight clear answer in very clear terms; why are they being so beat-about-the-bush and evasive about all this? It is actually quite clear. FiiO could have easily tested the E17K with the same phones they tested the E18 with, right? They have not come-out and simply stated that the E17K wont work with Android, they just say try it for yourself, because they know it will work. They just want to sell more E18s. A thousand E18s times $60 extra is $60,000, that's a hell of a lot of Chinese Yuan currency, 372,000 to be exact, dig me? Now times that by ten, dig me?

FiiO has not denied that the same phones they tested with the E18 will not work with the E17K. They are being deliberately shady simply to keep us confused and unsure when they know very well the E17K will work with Android OTG perfectly fine, with the same chance of success as the E18. The only thing that makes sense to me is the classic greed syndrome, they want you to spend more money on the E18 rather than just be honest with you and help you to save money. I'm sorry, but on principle i have to raise my voice about this. Have you noticed that James from FiiO is no longer chiming-in on this thread? Why, because it's better for him to get-out so that he wont have to admit it. We were starting to get more to the point and ask too many times so he got out of here. Very disappointing FiiO! And when i confirm that my E17K does work with Android OTG without any fuss, then i will have a justified grudge against FiiO.

Where's the integrity FiiO? Where are you James, long gone i see! Money, money, f_cking MONEY! Turns-out that FiiO is just like any other rogue company, questionable ethical practices in order to make millions of dollars, very disappointing! Choosing to deliberately withhold information is questionable ethics, know what i mean?

hi I tasted both fiio e18 and alpen e17k on Samsung galaxy note 2... e17k doesn't work with note 2.... may be cause my phone is not rooted and using kitkat... but fiio e18 sounded very nice too...

 

[Digital7]

Here's an extract from a review of the E18 from headfonia.com on the net...

"Personally I am not that impressed with Fiio’s latest device the E18. While other reviews may focus on ergonomics or features or accessories supplied, my focus has always been about the sound. I can live with a severely limited functionality device like the Altmann Tera as it gives me the sound like nothing else can. I don’t care if the $2K audio player doesn’t come with any screen or even any internal storage as long as it sounds good. That’s the sort of a person that I just am.

I wouldn’t say that the E18 is a total disappointment. It does the job well, that is performing an external D to A conversion from an Android device. However it just doesn’t seem to excel at it. And I’m not even doing a comparison to the higher end ADL X1, Astell&Kern AK10, or CypherLabs’ Theorem. I’m simply comparing it to Fiio’s own E17 which is actually my #2 favorite device on Fiio’s USB DAC line up (my #1, the E07K, I seem to have misplaced it). Though I dig the E18’s beefier low end sound — and regular readers know that’s how I like my sound — I can’t ignore the feeling that I’m just missing a big deal of resolution and micro details. And the E17K seems to provide that easily enough. The other thing that I’m missing is the air in the sound. Though it’s quite clear that the E18’s soundstage is wider and even slightly deeper, I just want to feel a little bit of air at the top end. Overall I do admit that the E18’s sound is more enjoyable, but that may be just due to my personal preference enjoying a darker, bassier kind of sound. But really, my position is still sort of “I wish Fiio would’ve tuned the sound further"


tugsthebugs, Samsung released an Android KitKat update for Galaxy Note 2, here's the brief from the internet...


Android KitKat 4.4.2 update for Galaxy Note 2 (GT-N7100 ...
samsung-updates.com/android-kitkat-4-4-2-update-for-galaxy-note-2-gt...
Starting from today, Samsung rolling out update for Galaxy Note 2 to Android 4.4.2 KitKat. First region to get it is XEF (France Open), and other regions should ...


So, tugsthebugs, I think that link was from late October 2014, have you checked your device for available updates? There is a chance that Samsung built-in OTG to this version.


bowei006 said: "ASIO were really only useful for a time when computers had low resources. And thus exclusive programs used it to give the program the audio quality that it was designed to."

This is all wrong. ASIO has nothing to do with audio quality. I produce music on computer, and ASIO is for low-latency real-time playback of audio so that we can monitor our plugins and software synths etc in real-time. Without real-time playback it would be nearly impossible to make music on a computer. There is no built-in audio driver included with any Microsoft OS that allows us to do this, only ASIO (Application Specific In/Out) can provide this. "WASAPI" cannot achieve satisfactory results, neither can "Direct-sound".
Apple has built-in the equivalent to ASIO inside every Mac computer, on-par with ASIO performance, it is called Core-Audio, so there is no need for a specific external audio-interface with ASIO drivers when making music on a Mac.

ASIO is a software 'driver' independent of computer resources like CPU or RAM; ASIO interacts with the Windows OS deep down for efficient audio streaming of DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) software devices etc. You could get basic satisfactory performance from WASAPI or Direct-Sound initially in a song project, but it wont be long before the audio streaming becomes bogged-down and demands from DAW plugins start mounting, so only ASIO can cope with this high-load situation to provide 'low-latency' realtime audio playback. High bitrate etc is dictated by the software device, not by the audio drivers. For example, i use iTunes on my Microsoft computer (i don't bother with Windows media Player) for the playback needs of my music collection, and iTunes allows me to choose different bitrates etc for how the song will be played back to the external audio device. Obviously the external audio card will have to have a 24bit DAC and be capable of accommodating 96khz or whatever to derive the benefit from the signal being sent to it from the software.



For anyone wondering about buying the E17K or the E18, i would stay away from both of them. If your looking for tight clear neutral performance, neither of these give it.


As endearing as the E17K is, it lacks natural 'air' in the top-end, and also lacks natural treble clarity and crispness in the top-end. It is also slightly too forward in the upper mids. That's the obvious faults i have found with it's performance. It is also overly warm just a tad. All these faults add-up together to exhibit a skewed overall unsatisfactory performance. I say again (not meaning to hammer the point home) in a direct A/B performance with my 7th generation iPod Nano, the built-in iPod Nano DAC and amp is giving absolute neutrality and clarity with plenty of drive.

As for the E18, i've read to many mediocre reviews about it. All the reviewers agree that it is flawed. I'm gonna check-out the FiiO X1 and X3 again just to see how these compare with the commendable balanced and clean performance of the iPod Nano. I'm tired of Amps and Dacs with sonic deficiencies, i'm tired of searching, i'm tired of wasting money, i'm now looking for a multi-function DAP that can serve many roles while offering superb neutral performance. The only one i see so-far that might achieve this is the iBasso DX90, and all the reviews are favourable, and all the reviews agree that it beats the FiiO X5. But FiiO have said they are working on version II of both the X3 and X1, so maybe i'll wait for these.

 

[hifeadme]

So, my initial thoughts with the AKG K271 (notoriously neutral) headphones and the Fiio E17K is that the sound is a little warm, the sound stage is narrow, and the treble is a bit high. I'll have to do some more testing at home. The E07K had such a narrow sound stage and it was so warm, that I had to return it. I think it was mostly the narrow sound stage that bothered me, and this seems to be similar. It doesn't feel enveloping at all.
 
By comparison, if I just use the amp, and go straight from my 2014 MacBook Pro, the sound stage widens significantly and the treble is back where it should be. Overall, it sounds more balanced, in that neither the bass, mids, or highs seem to overpower each other, but still seems a bit warm.

 

[SwordSaintSSX]

Here's an extract from a review of the E18 from headfonia.com on the net...

"Personally I am not that impressed with Fiio’s latest device the E18. While other reviews may focus on ergonomics or features or accessories supplied, my focus has always been about the sound. I can live with a severely limited functionality device like the Altmann Tera as it gives me the sound like nothing else can. I don’t care if the $2K audio player doesn’t come with any screen or even any internal storage as long as it sounds good. That’s the sort of a person that I just am.

I wouldn’t say that the E18 is a total disappointment. It does the job well, that is performing an external D to A conversion from an Android device. However it just doesn’t seem to excel at it. And I’m not even doing a comparison to the higher end ADL X1, Astell&Kern AK10, or CypherLabs’ Theorem. I’m simply comparing it to Fiio’s own E17 which is actually my #2 favorite device on Fiio’s USB DAC line up (my #1, the E07K, I seem to have misplaced it). Though I dig the E18’s beefier low end sound — and regular readers know that’s how I like my sound — I can’t ignore the feeling that I’m just missing a big deal of resolution and micro details. And the E17K seems to provide that easily enough. The other thing that I’m missing is the air in the sound. Though it’s quite clear that the E18’s soundstage is wider and even slightly deeper, I just want to feel a little bit of air at the top end. Overall I do admit that the E18’s sound is more enjoyable, but that may be just due to my personal preference enjoying a darker, bassier kind of sound. But really, my position is still sort of “I wish Fiio would’ve tuned the sound further"


tugsthebugs, Samsung released an Android KitKat update for Galaxy Note 2, here's the brief from the internet...


Android KitKat 4.4.2 update for Galaxy Note 2 (GT-N7100 ...
samsung-updates.com/android-kitkat-4-4-2-update-for-galaxy-note-2-gt...
Starting from today, Samsung rolling out update for Galaxy Note 2 to Android 4.4.2 KitKat. First region to get it is XEF (France Open), and other regions should ...


So, tugsthebugs, I think that link was from late October 2014, have you checked your device for available updates? There is a chance that Samsung built-in OTG to this version.


bowei006 said: "ASIO were really only useful for a time when computers had low resources. And thus exclusive programs used it to give the program the audio quality that it was designed to."

This is all wrong. ASIO has nothing to do with audio quality. I produce music on computer, and ASIO is for low-latency real-time playback of audio so that we can monitor our plugins and software synths etc in real-time. Without real-time playback it would be nearly impossible to make music on a computer. There is no built-in audio driver included with any Microsoft OS that allows us to do this, only ASIO (Application Specific In/Out) can provide this. "WASAPI" cannot achieve satisfactory results, neither can "Direct-sound".
Apple has built-in the equivalent to ASIO inside every Mac computer, on-par with ASIO performance, it is called Core-Audio, so there is no need for a specific external audio-interface with ASIO drivers when making music on a Mac.

ASIO is a software 'driver' independent of computer resources like CPU or RAM; ASIO interacts with the Windows OS deep down for efficient audio streaming of DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) software devices etc. You could get basic satisfactory performance from WASAPI or Direct-Sound initially in a song project, but it wont be long before the audio streaming becomes bogged-down and demands from DAW plugins start mounting, so only ASIO can cope with this high-load situation to provide 'low-latency' realtime audio playback. High bitrate etc is dictated by the software device, not by the audio drivers. For example, i use iTunes on my Microsoft computer (i don't bother with Windows media Player) for the playback needs of my music collection, and iTunes allows me to choose different bitrates etc for how the song will be played back to the external audio device. Obviously the external audio card will have to have a 24bit DAC and be capable of accommodating 96khz or whatever to derive the benefit from the signal being sent to it from the software.



For anyone wondering about buying the E17K or the E18, i would stay away from both of them. If your looking for tight clear neutral performance, neither of these give it.


As endearing as the E17K is, it lacks natural 'air' in the top-end, and also lacks natural treble clarity and crispness in the top-end. It is also slightly too forward in the upper mids. That's the obvious faults i have found with it's performance. It is also overly warm just a tad. All these faults add-up together to exhibit a skewed overall unsatisfactory performance. I say again (not meaning to hammer the point home) in a direct A/B performance with my 7th generation iPod Nano, the built-in iPod Nano DAC and amp is giving absolute neutrality and clarity with plenty of drive.

As for the E18, i've read to many mediocre reviews about it. All the reviewers agree that it is flawed. I'm gonna check-out the FiiO X1 and X3 again just to see how these compare with the commendable balanced and clean performance of the iPod Nano. I'm tired of Amps and Dacs with sonic deficiencies, i'm tired of searching, i'm tired of wasting money, i'm now looking for a multi-function DAP that can serve many roles while offering superb neutral performance. The only one i see so-far that might achieve this is the iBasso DX90, and all the reviews are favourable, and all the reviews agree that it beats the FiiO X5. But FiiO have said they are working on version II of both the X3 and X1, so maybe i'll wait for these.

Digital 7 what head phones did you use to test the E17k?

 

[Digital7]

Yamaha MT220 and Shure SRH440.

The Shure is not highly detailed but it is tonally balanced. Doing an A/B with the Yamaha MT220 and Shure 440 allows me to get good perspective on what's happening with the E17K.