[ScaryFatKidGT]

They both have there pro's and con's! I would not sell either one at this point. I really like my X5 with my HE400i headphones while the DX90 shines with my VMODA M100s and my GR07be. I see you are in MN as well, what city?

Really? Thats not good for my wallet haha, do you just pull the SD cards and pop them in the other player when you want to switch? Do they both recognize all the songs and artwork just fine?

 

[bowei006]

  Really? Thats not good for my wallet haha, do you just pull the SD cards and pop them in the other player when you want to switch? Do they both recognize all the songs and artwork just fine?

The X5 and DX should both have an onboard way of recognizing songs through automatic categorization that is stored in onboard memory.
 
So swapping cards shouldn't be a problem. It isn't a problem for me on the X5. This is granting that you did the 'media library' update and dont change the files

 

[howdy]

Really? Thats not good for my wallet haha, do you just pull the SD cards and pop them in the other player when you want to switch? Do they both recognize all the songs and artwork just fine?

They all have there own 64gb cards except the X5 has 2 in there. They should work in either one. My X3 only has a 32gb which is plenty, I use the X3 I'm my truck usually.

 

[ScaryFatKidGT]

  The X5 and DX should both have an onboard way of recognizing songs through automatic categorization that is stored in onboard memory.
 
So swapping cards shouldn't be a problem. It isn't a problem for me on the X5. This is granting that you did the 'media library' update and dont change the files

Will it know my iTunes info like not making songs featuring other artists into other artist categories intirely?
 

They all have there own 64gb cards except the X5 has 2 in there. They should work in either one. My X3 only has a 32gb which is plenty, I use the X3 I'm my truck usually.

Are the X5 and DX 90 clearly superior to the X3?

 

[bowei006]

  Will it know my iTunes info like not making songs featuring other artists into other artist categories intirely?
 
Are the X5 and DX 90 clearly superior to the X3?

 
 
What?
 
If you modified the id3 tags in iTunes  and set it so that a group of similar songs have the same artist or something. The X5/X1/X3 will know. 
 
It can only base it off id3 tags. Nothing proprietary that iTunes does. 
 
Yes. The word clearly is a bit hard to place though as this is an enthusiast forum. To us...it is a clear thing. To others, they all play audio and thus are the same thing. 

 

[tugsthebugs]

http://www.fiio.net/en/stores

http://www.headfoneshop.com/#FiiO

I see them for near normal price here on headfoneshop
http://www.headphonebar.com/categories/Headphone-Amps-%26-Desktop-Audio/

And headphonebar

thanks mate

 

[Digital7]

tugsthebugs said: "- E18 is officially supported Android device (E17 Alpen isn't fully confirmed)"

My response... If your are referring to the E17K (and not the old E17) then i can now tell you that the E17K and the E18 both share the same functionality for OTG purposes. For some reason FiiO has been a bit backwards in coming forwards about this if you know what i mean, but finally i got an answer from them in my email today, i asked them for a simple yes or no answer, here is what they said in their reply... "Sorry to reply so late. Yes, the E17K wont drain the smartphones battery, as it already has its own battery power inside, but i don't know whether it is compatible with your smartphone. As you know some smartphones are not compatible even with the E18 when it is used as a DAC. Nonetheless, the E17K has the same theoretical capability, therefore please confirm the E17K works with your phone before buying."

Well, i must say, this is not really about the E17K or E18 being compatible with our phone, this is about if our phone has OTG capability. So there you have it folks, the truth is that this is not about the E17 or E18 functionality, they are essentially identical, and it's not good that FiiO has not been upfront about this; up till now they've been quite evasive and ambiguous about all the relative details, it would have been very easy for FiiO to just come in here and give us a straight answer, but probably they want people to pay more for the E18. Oh well, that's business I suppose.

This whole dilemma is really all about the version of Android you have. Any of the Google Nexus phones have native OTG capability from version 4.4.4 upward, and my Motorola Moto G2 with Android version 4.4.4 has OTG capability also - (Motorola was owned by Google when my G2 was manufactured but Lenovo bought Motorola off Google 3 months ago).

But this whole OTG thing is essentially software driven, not hardware. Just so everyone knows, the soon-to-be-released Android 5.0 Lollipop has 'native' OTG audio streaming 'built-in', with no need for a specialized third-part audio app, so that will make any Android phone OTG-compatible by default.


tugsthebugs said: "PS: I live in Canada, it sucks sometimes, it's hard to get all these products. I called many authorized FiiO retailers and they don't carry it. I also asked them if they can order for me if I pay in advance. They declined. Finally found one seller on AMAZON.CA cost me $225, placed my order a week before and he hasn't shipped it yet. I'm thinking of canceling order if Alpen e17 is better than e18."


My response... dude, if you still want to buy an E17K and are having a hard time getting it, i can sell you mine, it's still brand new, not a scratch on it, i've only used it for one hour total. I'll sell it to you for $150 Canadian. Just let me know.



tugsthebugs asked: "I'm newbie.. what shall I get, Fiio e18 or Alpen 2 e17? I'll be using it on Samsung galaxy note 2+Bose QC3 headphone...."


My response... I haven't heard the E18, but the reviews are not as good as i would have hoped for, that's why i didn't buy it.

However, what i can tell you is that my Yamaha headphones have been giving me a false impression during all my recent listening tests (i never would have thought so), the Yamaha MT220's are not nearly as accurate as i had been led to believe, this Yamaha headphone has been skewing my listening experience with the E17K.
I decided to take a listen through my trusty Shure SRH440 headphones, and ahhhh, a sigh of relief came to me, back in action, the Shure is much more balanced and accurate than the Yamaha MT220, so now i did my listening tests again for 2 hours here.

Now because i have been amazed at the performance of the DAC/Amp built into the 7th generation iPod Nano, i decided to do some more listening tests here, the E17K against the iPod Nano, back-to-back over and over again on the same parts of the same songs, A/B, and A/B again, and again A/B, and on and on and on. Here's my summary...

The E17K and the iPOD Nano were giving nearly identical performance right across the audio spectrum, i'm serious! I am not lying. I used the iPod Nano on its own, direct from its line-out into the headphone. The listening tests were done at exactly the same volume level, and even under close analysis i had a hard time picking the difference, that's how close it was. I had the E17K plugged into the USB port on the computer and playing the music through the DAC/Amp section, so i was getting its true unhindered pure performance, and i was using the iPod direct into my headphone; swapping back and forth a hundred times during the same songs, they are both beautiful, the only difference was the E17K is ever so slightly warm, and i mean slightly, not quite as warm as my Yamaha MT220 headphones had led me to believe, it turns-out that the Yamaha MT220 headphone itself is warm.

Summary: The E17K is very detailed, has a nice wide soundstage, and embues a very 'mild' translucent warmth (but not to the point of annoying), and the treble range is ever so slightly recessed right at the bottom of the treble frequency-range, but not overly so. I think the slight warmth of the E17K might be clouding just a tad the natural crisp snap in the lower treble-range.

However, the E17K drives the sound with authority and excellent timing. It is a very endearing DAC/Amp and performs beautifully and coherently. If anything it could be accused of being slightly clinical, but not in a bad way. All-in-all, for those who want a touch of warmth and happen to have bright headphones, this thing is perfect, because the E17 dampens the natural bright 'snap' of the lower treble-spectrum ever so slightly, but not overly so. Otherwise, on the whole, the E17K is a very well-balanced performer overall, that's for sure. There is no obvious faults, and quite the contrary, it has a very nice transparent and detailed overall performance.



leobigfield asked: "I didn't understand. Did you like the e17k or not?"

Yes, now with my most recent tests, i have to say it is a very nice DAC/Amp, and the overall sound can be described as luxurious, well-balanced and nicely detailed.


Just so you know folks, the new MT220 headphones are not as accurate as the reviewers are stating, something dodgy going on here. Unless burn-in will fix things a bit, but i can't see it happening; currently the MT220 is not sounding like it should, i can tell you that much, and that has caused me a lot of misleading impressions when reviewing these DAC/Amps. I'm sorry for any trouble caused. Cheers.

 

[tugsthebugs]

tugsthebugs said: "- E18 is officially supported Android device (E17 Alpen isn't fully confirmed)"

My response... If your are referring to the E17K (and not the old E17) then i can now tell you that the E17K and the E18 both share the same functionality for OTG purposes. For some reason FiiO has been a bit backwards in coming forwards about this if you know what i mean, but finally i got an answer from them in my email today, i asked them for a simple yes or no answer, here is what they said in their reply... "Sorry to reply so late. Yes, the E17K wont drain the smartphones battery, as it has a battery inside, but i don't know whether it is compatible with your smartphone. As you know some smartphones are not compatible even with the E18 when it is used as a DAC. Nonetheless, the E17K has the same theoretical capability, therefore please confirm the E17K works with your phone before buying."

Well really, i must say, this is not really about the E17K or E18 being compatible with our phone, this is about if our phone has OTG capability. So there you have it folks, the truth is that this is not about the E17 or E18 functionality, they are essentially identical, and it's not good that FiiO has not been upfront about this; up till now they've been quite evasive and ambiguous about all the relative details, it would have been very easy for FiiO to just come in here and give us a straight answer, but probably they want people to pay more for the E18. Oh well, that's business I suppose.

This whole dilemma is really all about the version of Android you have. Any of the Google Nexus phones have native OTG capability from version 4.4.4 upward, and my Motorola Moto G2 with version 4.4.4 (Motorola was owned by Google when my G2 was manufactured) has OTG capability also, but this whole OTG thing is essentially software driven, not hardware. Just so every knows, Android 5.0 Lollipop has native OTG audio streaming 'built-in' with no need for a specialized app, so then that will make any phone OTG-compatible by default.


tugsthebugs said: "PS: I live in Canada, it sucks sometimes, it's hard to get all these products. I called many authorized FiiO retailers and they don't carry it. I also asked them if they can order for me if I pay in advance. They declined. Finally found one seller on AMAZON.CA cost me $225, placed my order a week before and he hasn't shipped it yet. I'm thinking of canceling order if Alpen e17 is better than e18."


My response... dude, if you still want to buy an E17K and are having a hard time getting it, i can sell you mine, it's still brand new, not a scratch on it, i've only used it for one hour total. I'll sell it to you for $150 Canadian. Just let me know.



tugsthebugs asked: "I'm newbie.. what shall I get, Fiio e18 or Alpen 2 e17? I'll be using it on Samsung galaxy note 2+Bose QC3 headphone...."


My response... I haven't heard the E18, but the reviews are not as good as i would have hoped for, that's why i didn't buy it.

However, what i can tell you is that my Yamaha headphones have been giving me a false impression during all my recent listening tests (i never would have thought so), the Yamaha MT220's are not nearly as accurate as i had been led to believe, this Yamaha headphone has been skewing my listening experience with the E17K.
I decided to take a listen through my trusty Shure SRH440 headphones, and ahhhh, a sigh of relief came to me, back in action, the Shure is much more balanced and accurate than the Yamaha MT220, so now i did my listening tests again for 2 hours here.

Now because i have been amazed at the performance of the DAC/Amp built into the 7th generation iPod Nano, i decided to do some more listening tests here, the E17K against the iPod nano back-to-back over and over again on the same parts of the same songs, A/B, and again A/B, and again A/B and on and on and on. Here's my summary...

The E17K and the iPOD Nano were giving nearly identical performance right across the audio spectrum, i'm serious! I am not lying. I used the iPod Nano on its own, direct from its line-out into my headphone. The listening tests were done at exactly the same volume level, and i had a very hard time picking the difference, that's how close it was. I had the E17K plugged into the USB port on the computer and playing the music through the DAC/Amp section so i was getting its true and unhindered pure performance, and the iPod direct into my headphone; swapping back and forth a hundred times during the same songs, they are both beautiful, the only difference was the E17K is ever so slightly warm, and i mean slightly, definitely not as warm as my Yamaha MT220 headphones had led me to believe.

Summary: The E17K is very detailed, has a nice wide soundstage, and embues a very 'mild' translucent warmth (but not to the point of annoying), and the treble range is ever so slightly recessed right at the very top-end, but not overly so. The E17K drives the sound with weight and authority and excellent timing. It is a very endearing DAC/Amp and performs beautifully and coherently. If anything it could be accused of being slightly clinical, but not in a bad way. All-in-all, for those who want a touch of warmth and have bright headphones, this thing is perfect, because the E17 dampens the natural 'snap' of the treble range ever so slightly, but not in a big way. Otherwise, on the whole, it is a very well-balanced performer, that's for sure. There is no glaringly obvious faults, and quite the contrary, it has a very nice transparent and detailed overall performance.



leobigfield asked: "I didn't understand. Did you like the e17k or not?"

Yes, now with my most recent tests, i have to say it is a very nice DAC/Amp, and the overall sound can be described as luxurious, well-balanced and nicely detailed.


Just so you know folks, the new MT220 headphones are not as accurate as the reviewers are stating, something dodgy going on here. Unless burn-in will fix things a bit, but i can't see it happening; currently the MT220 is not sounding like it should, i can tell you that much, and that has caused me a lot of misleading impressions when reviewing these DAC/Amps. I'm sorry for any trouble caused. Cheers.

thank you for your detailed answer. Very nicely explained. Seems like e17k scores more.. So what would be the final conclusion? fiio e18 or fiio alpen e17k is better?

 

[Digital7]

As i said in my previous post, i can't say, i haven't heard the E18, but some pro reviews are finding faults with the E18, so do some research for your own sake and read as many reviews as you can. If the pros are all saying the same thing, then that will give you a good idea.

Also, everyone knows with Audiophiles etc that they are adamant about "burn-in", both for DACs and Headphones, so actually my E17K is so new there has not been time for "burn-in", thus maybe the highs (treble) will open-up a bit more after several more hours with it, who knows. But yeah, the E17K is a beautiful DAC/Amp from what i can hear so-far.

For anyone who needs to know if their phone has OTG capability, just go into "Settings" (as usual), then into "Storage" and then scroll to the bottom of the menu, and if it is OTG compatible there will be a category box saying "Mount USB On-The-Go storage". If you find this category at the bottom of the menu-list inside the "Storage" section of Android, then IT IS OTG COMPATIBLE, and should work with any Amp/DAC that allows OTG.

Just a reminder, tugsthebugs, if you wanna buy the E17K and are having trouble getting it, i'll sell you mine if you want; i can easily go down and get another one here where i live. Cheers.

 

[tugsthebugs]

As i said in my previous post, i can't say, i haven't heard the E18, but some pro reviews are finding faults with the E18, so do some research for your own sake and read as many reviews as you can. If the pros are all saying the same thing, then that will give you a good idea.

Also, everyone knows with Audiophiles etc that they are adamant about "burn-in", both for DACs and Headphones, so actually my E17K is so new there has not been time for "burn-in", thus maybe the highs (treble) will open-up a bit more after several more hours with it, who knows. But yeah, the E17K is a beautiful DAC/Amp from what i can hear so-far.

For anyone who needs to know if their phone has OTG capability, just go into "Settings" (as usual), then into "Storage" and then scroll to the bottom of the menu, and if it is OTG compatible there will be a category box saying "Mount USB On-The-Go storage". If you find this category at the bottom of the menu-list inside the "Storage" section of Android, then IT IS OTG COMPATIBLE, and should work with any Amp/DAC that allows OTG.

Just a reminder, tugsthebugs, if you wanna buy the E17K and are having trouble getting it, i'll sell you mine if you want; i can easily go down and get another one here where i live. Cheers.

thanks mate you're awesome. I'll let you know. Received this message from fiio:
Hi, you want to make the E17K or E18 work as the external DAC for your phone? After our test, the E17K may not be compatible with the Galaxy Note 2 by the USB connection. So maybe you can consider the E18. Of course, it is just for reference. 

 

[howdy]

Just received my FiiO E17K and I'm liking what I am hearing so far. To me, it is a very clear-analytical sound. I'm using this with my IPod classic.

 

[Digital7]

tugsthebugs, think about this, the E18 is bigger and heavier than the E17K, and the extra weight becomes a pain after a while.

My FiiO E12 Mont Blanc is the 'same' size and 'weight' as the FiiO E18. I have found that my FiiO E12 Amp is too bulky and heavy and inconvenient to carry around, so keep that in mind; after the novelty of a portable Amp wears-off, i think you might quickly come to the same conclusion as me. I have found that the E17K is much more portable and more convenient, not too bulky or heavy.

The E18 weighs nearly the same as your Galaxy Note 2. As if the Galaxy Note 2 isn't heavy enough, and already heavier than nearly every smartphone, you now will have the equivalent of two Galaxy Note 2s to carry around in one pocket. Becomes a pain after a while, just giving you a friendly heads-up.

Also, FiiO at there site says this... "Owing to differences in smartphone firmware, newer smartphones may require installation of 3rd party music players to work with the E18 as a DAC.

But, consider this, FiiO knows very well that the E17K will also work with the third-party app, and many Android phones will work natively with the E17K, so why is FiiO trying to steer you away from the E17K? So, even FiiO is still not giving a definite answer about this whole matter. And then they tell you... "After our test, the E17K may not be compatible with the Galaxy Note 2 by the USB connection."

Huh? "May not" Will it or wont it, FiiO??? They know it is more than likely compatible! Why are they saying these ambiguous statements? Ask yourself. Before they were telling me in my email that the E17K and E18 have the same theoretical functionality. Theoretical means what? Try getting rid of the cunning use of wording FiiO, and just say "Same functionality". Ask yourself why they wont just give you and me and all of us a simple straight answer, and why they have told me something different and others something else.

They even said in this thread that the E17K will draw power from the phone player, but then they send me an email saying it wont draw power because it has its own battery. Do you see what i mean?

Many times they have had to admit that the E17K does the same thing as the E18, but then they keep trying to subtly steer us toward the E18.

Here's what i think is happening. FiiO has admitted that the E17K and E18 have the same functionality, but in order to sell more E18s they have simply chosen not to test the E17K with any phones so that they don't have to admit that the E17K and E18 both have equal chance of working with Android OTG. If i can track-down an OTG micro usb to micro usb cable, i'll nearly bet my life that the E17K will happily work with Android OTG functionality without issue.

If i myself was in FiiO's position, i would give a very straight clear answer in very clear terms; why are they being so beat-about-the-bush and evasive about all this? It is actually quite clear. FiiO could have easily tested the E17K with the same phones they tested the E18 with, right? They have not come-out and simply stated that the E17K wont work with Android, they just say try it for yourself, because they know it will work. They just want to sell more E18s. A thousand E18s times $60 extra is $60,000, that's a hell of a lot of Chinese Yuan currency, 372,000 to be exact, dig me? Now times that by ten, dig me?

FiiO has not denied that the same phones they tested with the E18 will not work with the E17K. They are being deliberately shady simply to keep us confused and unsure when they know very well the E17K will work with Android OTG perfectly fine, with the same chance of success as the E18. The only thing that makes sense to me is the classic greed syndrome, they want you to spend more money on the E18 rather than just be honest with you and help you to save money. I'm sorry, but on principle i have to raise my voice about this. Have you noticed that James from FiiO is no longer chiming-in on this thread? Why, because it's better for him to get-out so that he wont have to admit it. We were starting to get more to the point and ask too many times so he got out of here. Very disappointing FiiO! And when i confirm that my E17K does work with Android OTG without any fuss, then i will have a justified grudge against FiiO.

Where's the integrity FiiO? Where are you James, long gone i see! Money, money, f_cking MONEY! Turns-out that FiiO is just like any other rogue company, questionable ethical practices in order to make millions of dollars, very disappointing! Choosing to deliberately withhold information is questionable ethics, know what i mean?

 

[rmullins08]

/deleting rant 

Where's the integrity FiiO? Where are you James, long gone i see! Money, money, f_cking MONEY! Turns-out that FiiO is just like any other rogue company, questionable ethical practices in order to make millions of dollars, very disappointing! Choosing to deliberately withhold information is questionable ethics, know what i mean?

 
Upset a bit?
 
You act as if they are identical products and they are just charging more for the E18 because they can.
 
They aren't marketing the E17K as a true Android dac/amp, so aren't going to take the time/money to go through tests to see if it is compatible.  Will it work with phones? Sure, it should, but don't complain if it doesn't.
 
 
Need 32bit/DSD?  Get the E17K.
Need Coaxial input?  Get the E17K
Want a true potentiometer?  Get the E18
Primary use on the road and need the larger battery?  E18

 

[SwordSaintSSX]

Can FiiO upload a guide for how to get the E17k Working with ASIO drivers for DSD playback and 32bit playback. I've been trying to get these to work and to no avail.

 

[hifeadme]

Getting mine tomorrow. I'll post my initial thoughts after some good listening with AKG cans.