[Uncle Erik]

If you want a sobering test of audiophile equipment, read about the Matrix test (http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm).

Not only did they use a cheap RCA cable, they also used a cheap source and amp.

No one could tell the difference. The cable being the least of this.

It confirms what I've long found to be the case. Cables don't matter at all. Digital sources are all about the same. Amplification matters as much as it is adequate, and what's most important is having a good recording and good speakers/headphones.

I do think you can get different sounds from amps. Tubes introduce some character (often pleasing, and that can be backed with measurements) but aren't necessary for great sound.

I like to see people get great sound and enjoy their music at the lowest possible cost. Thankfully, that can be done for very reasonable prices today. Then there are those who want status symbols. That's OK. Some of the expensive stuff is beautiful and works well. Enjoy it if you can afford it. What I really want to see is high-end audio become more mainstream and popular. Everyone should have great headphones and/or speakers without worrying abou the stuff that doesn't matter.

 

[Lenni]

Personally I would question the validity of this test. For starter who are the people taking the test? Are they audiophiles with high-end systems who have tried different audio components, cables and what not? You cannot ask a bunch of people randomly to take these kinds of tests. You cannot be serious!
 
the test confirms nothing. zero. it's an utter waste of time. what mostly does it creates misinformation for people like our fellow Somebody007 whose had not much experience with this stuff, and has already come to a (wrong) conclusion about it.
 
While I share the vision to see high-end audio becoming more mainstream (good luck with that) I'm not sure how's your particular stance gonna help that. personally I disagree about what matters in a system. To me everything matters - everything. I've been enjoying my speakers very much, but since upgrading the dac and the cables I've been enjoying them even more. A lot more. But then, I’m addicted to placebo. 

 

[tmars78]

Quote:

Personally I would question the validity of this test. For starter who are the people taking the test? Are they audiophiles with high-end systems who have tried different audio components, cables and what not? You cannot ask a bunch of people randomly to take these kinds of tests. You cannot be serious!
 
the test confirms nothing. zero. it's an utter waste of time. what mostly does it creates misinformation for people like our fellow Somebody007 whose had not much experience with this stuff, and has already come to a (wrong) conclusion about it.
 
While I share the vision to see high-end audio becoming more mainstream (good luck with that) I'm not sure how's your particular stance gonna help that. personally I disagree about what matters in a system. To me everything matters - everything. I've been enjoying my speakers very much, but since upgrading the dac and the cables I've been enjoying them even more. A lot more. But then, I’m addicted to placebo. 

Apparently you didn't bother to read the page, and automatically dismissed it. It stated clearly, "The human testers were all trained ears and used to extensively listening to high end equipments, a good number of them participated, each with his own conception of the high end world, some totally subjectivists, some completely objectivists, some in between." 
 

 

[Lenni]

yep you're right I missed that. my bad. but it doesn't change anything. I still don't know who these people really were, or what their experience with high-end audio, and that was just the first thing that I'd question about the validity of this test.

 
 
would I personally come to a final conclusion about amps, source, cables, etc.. because of this one test? I don't think so. but thanks for point that out

 

[Somebody007]

 
Quote:

Personally I would question the validity of this test. For starter who are the people taking the test? Are they audiophiles with high-end systems who have tried different audio components, cables and what not? You cannot ask a bunch of people randomly to take these kinds of tests. You cannot be serious!
 
the test confirms nothing. zero. it's an utter waste of time. what mostly does it creates misinformation for people like our fellow Somebody007 whose had not much experience with this stuff, and has already come to a (wrong) conclusion about it.
 
While I share the vision to see high-end audio becoming more mainstream (good luck with that) I'm not sure how's your particular stance gonna help that. personally I disagree about what matters in a system. To me everything matters - everything. I've been enjoying my speakers very much, but since upgrading the dac and the cables I've been enjoying them even more. A lot more. But then, I’m addicted to placebo. 

All the people in those tests were self-proclaimed audiophiles. Whether or not they are to be trusted as real audiophiles or whether the tests are to be trusted for that matter, I think the conclusion remains the same. Even though on paper all those higher-grade components(cables or other products) are better the difference to the listener is so small that even it's existence is disputed. Whether or not the differences are audible/noticeable. The fact remains that if we can't confirm clear differences consistently between different grades of components then whether they are a worthy investment is understandably questionable.

I just started buying good audio(what I consider good anyways) components. I now have a little dot mk III with rolled driver tubes, hd 650s and an asus d2x sound card. I was told that that sound card would be a serious bottleneck. Now seeing as my audio memory was for from good enough to the allow conventional testing of doing one setup testing it out and then doing another I bought an input selector(with all gold plated rca connections if that makes it better for that matter lol...). I connected both my sound card(100 euros) and an also new 300euro cd player to the input selector and then little dot and hd650s. I played the same songs with the same bitrates(over 1000 kbps and all MJ songs) at the same time and switched between them. The bass was tighter, but only ever so slightly so on the CD player. That difference was barely noticeable. Another far more noticeable difference was that on the sound card the sound seemed to immerse me more as if my head was in the voice whereas on the CD player the voice seemed to be in front of me. Now personally I preferred the CD-player sound in this aspect, but it was still more a difference than an improvement. I would however never notice this difference if there was a delay between me hearing the different setups even if it was a fairly short one. I only found those differences because I had the input selector. Now keep in mind that that CD-player is 3 times the price of the sound card which was said to be "bottlenecking" and still the difference was tiny.

My point here is that difference are so tiny and so subtle(to me at least) that I can't imagine things like going from a high quality cable to a higher quality cable would provide a noticeable improvement, especially given the amount of time it takes to switch out the cables. I could be wrong in all this, but despite my lack of experience I must side with uncle erik and the "articles" on this matter. don't get me wrong I love all the stuff I bought and never thought of it as a waste, but I do find some people are bringing their own placebos into other peoples lives too much.

 

[themusic2]

Seems like the thread fizzled out. Here it goes again ... "Best RCA cables for the money" = make your own silver wire interconnects and speaker cables ... laventure (http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm) You don't have to make them from silver though. You can get 1.2 mm diameter copper by stripping down heavy house wiring (25amp) from hardware store. You'll get quite a few solid Cu wires from every metre of it. Silver does have a slightly lower resistance per metre than copper ... but (oh no, here's the arguments coming up again) I wonder if you can hear it.
If not into DIY, then one of the earliest posts in this thread ... DNM solid core cable. Been around for ages. The designer is hifi designer of note. Been positively reviewed for ages too. Like all cables it has some reviewers saying there are flaws in highs/soundstage reduction. But as a plunge/experiment for someone wanting to go from standard cable, they are an excellent and reasonable start.
Re the overall argument about hearing differences in cables ... the best rationale behind this is to consider a simple speaker cross over. If this has been mentioned already in this thread, apologies. But I like the analogy. A speaker cross over is a combination of resistor, capacitor and inductor of different values which alter the signal to allow the bass cone to filter off at its higher frequencies, and the mid/high driver to filter off its low frequencies. Every design of cable has a different resistance, capacitance and inductance. And of course the length multiplies this resistance, capacitance and inductance. So electronically speaking, every cable is adding in a resistor, capacitor and inductor into the stereo equipment chain. IE a cross over which has the potential of altering the highs or lows, or tone in general much like a speaker cross-over. But we are talking about small amounts/effect compared to a cross over. But some people have better hearing than others. And some people just like bragging about their cables. If you are happy and enjoy listening to your system without trying different cables ... go for it. If you enjoy DIY'ing cables or even buying them on eBay/brand new and seeing if it hightens your enjoyment of the music and/or the hobby ... go nuts!
 

 

[jibzilla]

.

 

[tybritton5]

Let me first say the general tone on this thread has been fairly caustic in many instances, and such a tone I feel is counterproductive to an intelligent conversation about the relative value of cables. This is obviously not a conversation about who is in the right or wrong. I think a bit more respect for other user's opinions would go a long way getting somewhere.
 
Secondly, information about the components users are testing their cables and therefore basing their opinions on, is sorely missing. I say sorely because I think one's components are absolutely essential to understanding his/her experience with cables. A Cardas Clear cable  compared to a $15 cable running between $300 components will undoubtedly show little/no difference (e.g. "jet fuel in a lawn mower" !). On a much higher end system, perhaps there will be a notable difference.
 
I realize placebo probably does play a role in one's listening experience, and as long as he/she is comfortable this is not a bad thing. But I also have a hard time believing that there are not tenable benefits to be gained by investing in a more expensive cable for a higher end system; a $1000 cable "gimmick" seems very implausible to me.
 
On my system (Musical Fidelity A5 CD Player -> Woo WA6 -> Beyer. T1), I have only ever used a $20 cable - a brand name I can't even recall. I am wondering if anyone has a modest-quality system that is similar to mine, and if they have an opinion as to whether spending, say, $300+ on an Audioquest/Cardas/etc. made a notable difference in driving sound quality. Or would it be more worthwhile (i.e. $$while) to upgrade a different part of my setup?
 
 
I do think there is some truth to what Uncle E was getting at earlier in posting the study, but I also think that, while very interesting, the particular study is dubious because it does not provide much hard data. However, it certainly seems to warrant further investigation (I would love have such a study done on me!)
 
I appreciate users responses as to what cables they have been satisfied with - it has been helpful for researching.

 

[tybritton5]

Originally Posted by Jibzilla

Just purchased a used keces DA 151 mk2 and woo ges off the for sale forums here and wanted to hear some input on rca cables. Looks like this thread died a long time ago but there might be someone else wondering the same thing as I now. After all of the debate I think I'm sticking with a cable co. I'm familiar with and did not see mentioned. Mogami is a name that has been around a while and has a very good reputation for delivering a solid sound for the money. Proaudiola.com will make you a custom mogami cable for pretty much the same price of mogami. I guess they have a hook up or buy in bulk. I lean toward what UE had to say. The problem I have with the cheap monoprice, hosa, belkin, etc... is that the wire's inside are super thin and the shielding and contectors are flimsy and fragile. To me the mogami cables I own are bulletproof and tough and honestly do sound better. I have also tried more expensive cables and not seen much of a difference. To me it's the perfect combination, 5-10 times the price of the cheap cables but you get 5-10 times thicker wires, shielding and neutrik connectors. Any higher in price in my experience your looking at diminishing returns. The 3ft. proaudiola rca cable will run me $40 shipped.
 

 
Hey I noticed your pics of your components in your profile - are those the components you listen to with the Mogami cable? I agree about diminished returns, and I'm guessing since you didn't spend $1k on a cable that the difference between the $$ you paid for yours and a much more expensive one wasn't worth it to you?
 
Thanks,
T.

 

[a1uc]

I use Audioquest Colorado's and Im very happy with them - also Grover Huffman makes good stuff

 

[tybritton5]

  I use Audioquest Colorado's and Im very happy with them - also Grover Huffman makes good stuff

Yea I was checking out the Colorado's. I have been a bit hesitant on pulling the trigger on Audioquest b/c of some conflicting reviews about Audioquest. From what I've read, people seem to agree that they are built well and sound great, but perhaps overpriced. I don't know if I believe it - the materials used as you move up the product line seem to justify their price in my opinion. 
 
However after reading about Grover Huffman's cables, they're exactly what I'm looking for. They seem like a fantastic place to start and a very considerable upgrade from what I have now. I will do some "blind testing" on them and my (cheap) current cable and report back what I hear.
 
Thank you for the great recommendations a1uc. 

 

[JacobLee89]

In an act of revival I would like to ask:
 
1) If I were to DIY, what sort of "cord" would be good? I'm thinking of making two interconnects rather than have one cable that spits to two RCA's on both ends, I like making stuff look cably..
 
2) I am struggling to see what differences there are between the Blue Jeans Audio Cable, and the Blue Jeans Subwoofer Cable. Can someone explain, or just tell me which ones to get if I were to connect, lets say a Bifrost to a BH Crack?
 
3) Are there any other *good quality* RCA interconnects in the sub $100 category? The Blue Jeans cables seems to be the most reasonable so far, but for me anything nearing $90 is borderline silly, unless it's a power cable.
 
Many thanks in advance 

 
 
*edit'ional question* (Sorry I just love puns ok?)
 
4) Would I need to worry about checking the interconnects for consistency (multimeter stuff I still have yet to learn) if I were to DIY them?

 

[screwdriver]

what about the morrow cables cheapest offering  morrow ma1
they are $49  but with the coupon they run around $36  for a 1m pair
 
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/morrow_audio.htm

 

[JacobLee89]

  what about the morrow cables cheapest offering  morrow ma1
they are $49  but with the coupon they run around $36  for a 1m pair
 
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/morrow_audio.htm

Thanks for adding to the list of stuff I could potentially buy !
 
On a side note, I have some spare Van Damme Pro patch Cable (silver cable, and shielded) sitting around, would that be of reasonable quality to use in RCA interconnects?

 

[thathertz]

In answer to the OP: Nordost Red Dawn IC's. "A veil was lifted from the music and I witnessed a revelatory experience." Maybe not quite but there was a definite difference between the Nordost cables and the Audioquest I had before. It was a positive difference: more detail, tighter bass. Hmmmm...anyway, no one can prove that God doesn't exist. Likewise, you cannot disprove I hear a difference.
 
Try the Nordost Red Dawn if you get the chance. You might enjoy them. If you do enjoy them or indeed any other cable you try....who can tell you otherwise?