Best RCA cables for the money
Feb 9, 2014 at 4:33 PM Post #136 of 159
I decided to DIY some, knowing that my 100 feet of wire isn't going to be of much use sitting there. The wires were silver plated copper with PTFE (teflon), the 3.5mm connector is a neutrik (forgot which one), and the RCA connectors were "sturdy looking ones" bought from a local electronics store.
 

 
I'm probably going to spout amateur blabber, but I've learnt the following:
 
- Teflon is annoyingly difficult to grip. I resorted to wearing latex gloves
- 4 part braiding is incredibly easy if you get the hang of the "twist and pass" method, and have something to clamp one end of the bundle.
Sleeves and everything else goes in first before soldering
- Sleeves and everything else goes in first before soldering
- Sl----
- It'd probably wouldn't hurt to plan ahead and figure out an order of how to assemble the thing.
- Don't be too hasty on the shrink wrap/tube, test before committing!
- Coloured wire would also be easier....
- A multimeter would have been useful..
 
Feb 14, 2014 at 2:11 PM Post #137 of 159
Hi All.
 
So, I can't afford any of the really high end equipment, but I do know scientific research very well and this discussion is fascinating.
 
While the listening experience is subjective, whether a particular person can actually tell the difference between cables is not.  It's a yes or no determination.  It would be cool to set up a double blind test with people who feel that they have good ears (not me) and just see.  This would be easy.  Same high end gear, same listening environment, only variable would be the cable.  The listener can't know which cable is being tested at a given moment (blind) and the tester can't know which cable he or she is plugging in for the listener (double blind).  The cables would have to be covered up and labeled "A" and "B" etc., and the order determined randomly or by someone not administering the test in order to avoid any subtle influence.  If enough trials are done, a fast statistical analysis determines if there is a signifiant difference in perception between the cables.  The whole thing would take maybe 30 minutes.
 
In the end, either a given listener can tell the difference, or they cannot.  There is nothing subjective about the actual test, and the results would be really interesting.  Either a myth disproved or (more interesting) there really is a difference that can be determined by the subjective listener during a non-subjective test.
 
It would be daring to do...might end this discussion and create an entirely new one.
 
DK
 
Feb 16, 2014 at 7:43 PM Post #138 of 159
  It would be daring to do...might end this discussion and create an entirely new one.
 

Nice first post!
1. DBT Free Forum means NO DOUBLE BLIND TEST. You have revealed nothing new. You should understand the guardrails before posting.
2. Sorry but you are not going end any discussion or start any interesting ones
Welcome to Head-Fi.
Sorry for your wallet...
 
Feb 17, 2014 at 8:09 AM Post #140 of 159
  My bad - I should have noticed that.  Enjoy your non-intellectual forum.

I'm very sure that there already has been multiple documented blind testing events by people such as yourself. I believe there may be a mention to it somewhere in this thread.
 
The revival of this age old discussion is hard to conclude with a binary answer. The variable factors of ear size, frequency sensitivity, age, and even the individual's memory of sounds can affect whether the changes can even be detected or not.
 
But as far as I'm concerned with "high quality cables", people can save up a good amount by just sourcing the same materials by themselves and making their own. It's more about durability for me.
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 9:32 AM Post #141 of 159
DK,

IMO,
there is a science forum here for just your approach. If people bring in subjective results, prepare to be challenged by the Audio Templars, and there's nothing wrong with that. We have been around long enough to know contentious topics can cause dysfunction. You are new and haven't the experience of the site yet. The gear threads are allowed open discussion of subjective nature because the "no DBT" guidelines offer new members the opportunity to participate without bogging down the flow of discussion with calibration protocol and documentation. Ours is a world wide collection of individuals from all walks of life that share a common passion and are sharing our experiences as we understand them.

As for intellectuals, I think you'll find our members are heavy into science and engineering professions, college students, industry insiders, designers, audio professionals, geeks, preformers, headphone lifestyle initiates, doctors, lawyers, self made successful business professionals and members that have been in the hobby for decades. We also have young adults learning about the hobby because of the technical development of portable devices. All ambitious types that will learn with robust enthusiasm because audio is their passion. I've found this site to be very intelligent with some impressive industry resources supporting the information offerings. Head Fi is a rather unique community that offers all sides of a topic because of the resources of it's whole, artistic and analytic. We allow anybody to participate with good manners.


Please enjoy our forums and share your experiences.

d HC b
 
Jul 14, 2014 at 10:49 AM Post #142 of 159

I've run into a lot of people on this forum think that all you need is a cheap Monoprice  or equivalent cable.  Or as long as the cable is of quality construction, you won’t be able to hear a difference. I’d like to share my first experience with upscale  cables that happened to me over 20 years ago.
 
In the early 90’s I was working at a small mid-fi audio equipment store in the Midwest. We sold stuff like Yamaha, Adcom, NAD, Sumo, Klipsch, Kef, and Magnepan. At that time your option for speaker wire in the store was Esoteric Audio in 16, 14 or 12 ga. This was essentially the equivalent to Monster Cable from the same era, but it was a little cheaper. If you really wanted to go upscale we’d put some spades or banana plugs on the wire for you.
 
One day the Audio Alchemy rep came in (the days before AA decided to sell direct and screw their dealers who had built their brand to legend status for them), and said he just picked up a new wire line called Audioquest. We didn’t care and didn’t want to hear it. The sample that he had was a flat solid core wire that was the equivalent of about 17ga if I recall. It retailed for about .80/ foot. We decided to hook it up anyway just to make the rep go away and leave us alone. So we picked a NAD system with Magneplanars where the preamp had a mono switch so we could easily compare the L/R channels. One channel had the Audioquest  on it and the other had the 12ga Esoteric.  We expected the Esoteric to annihilate the Audioquest. After all, the Esoteric was a lot bigger and a little more expensive wire.  So we popped in a CD and listened to one channel in mono and then set the balance to the other and went back and forth a few times. The difference was huge. The Esoteric had bigger bass, but it wasn’t very controlled. The Audioquest had very precise bass, but the real difference was on the mids and highs where they opened way up on the Magneplanars.  The difference was not subtle. Everyone heard it. So we bought the line and rewired the whole store with it.
 
There’s a couple of things to keep in mind here:
1.      1.  We didn’t want to hear a difference. So to suggest that we wished any improvement into reality simply isn’t true.
2.      2.  These were both cheap speaker cables on a pretty modest (~$3000) system, and the differences were very obvious.
 
A couple of years later we had a visit from Bill Low, the founder of Audioquest. He did his famous demo for us where he wired up a $200 JVC boombox with Audioquest, popped in a CD and let it roll for 15-30 seconds, and then swapped in the next higher model of cable and repeated the process on the same tune.  Again there were clearly differences as he went from <$1ft cable up to stupid expensive models. Not that anyone would put multi thousand dollar cables on a boombox, but it showed the improvements with each model.
 
So with both of these demos, speaker cables were used. I really believe the differences are more obvious with speaker cables than with interconnects. At least that’s what I heard. And interconnects are hard to compare. So a year or two after that we got a “comparator” device from Wireworld on loan from one of our reps. This made it possible to A/B interconnects without having to power down and rewire a system before trying another cable. Again we heard differences between the models we tested but you had to listen a little longer to get a feel for what the cable sounded like. It wasn’t as easy as when we compared speaker cables.
 
So here’s what I learned from these experiences and 10 years from selling upscale cabling and audio/video equipment:
 
1.      1. Speaker cables sound different. But not all of them. We could clearly hear the difference between a cheap Audioquest and Esoteric cable, but the difference between the Esoteric models, (say, a 16ga vs. 12ga) was pretty subtle if any.
 
2.      2. We could hear a difference in interconnects but sometimes they were subtle when they were comparably priced. A $30 vs. $500 interconnect from the same company was usually a pretty noticeable difference. In a $30 vs. $50 cable, the difference was sometimes harder to detect.
 
3.       3. Keep it real! It doesn’t make much sense to throw a $200 interconnect on a $250 receiver. But a $30 interconnect on the same receiver could be a noticeable improvement over a generic $2.99 cable.  That brings up another issue. The sweet spot for interconnects from these tests were probably $50-$125. Meaning that the most bang for the buck was in this range, especially if the system had more to it than a cheap A/V receiver. Once you got into expensive cables the refinements were smaller. You can probably get more enjoyment for the $ by buying better gear than spending an extra $500 on a cable.
 
4.       4.The differences in digital cables were subtle. Usually we had to compare cheapest to most expensive to hear more noticeable differences. I tend to believe the biggest differences had more to do with quality of the connectors rather than manufacturer Y used PVC insulation vs. Manufacturer X used Teflon.
 
5.       5.Video cables can be some of the easiest to demo. Not everyone listens for the same stuff when music is involved, but in a high resolution video system, it can be easy to show improvements  if the improvements actually exist.  I think true changes become more objective when it comes to video. Not that we can’t argue what looks more correct, but whether  you see the difference or don’t.
 
That was my experience 20+ years ago. I have no idea if those price points still apply. I’m sure there are exceptions to every rule given different companies views on the preferred wire purity and thickness, insulation material, and configuration. The brands we compared were pretty limited, so it’s possible that other manufactures cables could be more or less difficult to discern differences.

 
Jul 14, 2014 at 11:06 AM Post #143 of 159
Audioquest, though, is pretty pricey for what you get. Whether or not one believes in price/performance value from better cables, there are better price/construction & material quality values than Audioquest and some of the boutique cable manufacturers. My vote echoes others who have said Blue Jean Cable. Whether or not one hears a difference, you certainly get a much better built cable from Blue Jean Cable than Monoprice, and arguably one not as marked up as Audioquest in price.
 
Jul 14, 2014 at 12:17 PM Post #144 of 159
Blue Jeans are great! I second that. I've bought lots of cables from them both digital and analog and I am extremely pleased with the build quality. I also recommend Forza Audioworks - for well built cables at a reasonable price.
 
Jul 14, 2014 at 1:05 PM Post #145 of 159
Audioquest, though, is pretty pricey for what you get. Whether or not one believes in price/performance value from better cables, there are better price/construction & material quality values than Audioquest and some of the boutique cable manufacturers. My vote echoes others who have said Blue Jean Cable. Whether or not one hears a difference, you certainly get a much better built cable from Blue Jean Cable than Monoprice, and arguably one not as marked up as Audioquest in price.

 
That very well may be the case. I haven't personally bought any new cables since 1997 that were more than $20 or so. I'm pretty out of touch regarding what's going on now with cable companies. When I sold Audioquest the line was pretty simple. They made 1 line of interconnects. ( Turquoise, Topaz, Ruby, Emerald...etc) and they may have had some stuff for custom home. Now I can't even attempt to keep their product line straight.
 
I used Audioquest as an example because that's what I dealt with at the time. They weren't necessarily the best then, or now. Just my attempt to sort through what my experiences were at the time.
 
I don't have any experience with Blue Jeans Cable. Since they deal direct to the public their margins wouldn't have to be as high as a company that goes through a dealer network. They also appear to use a lot of off the shelf Belden and Canare wire which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've built a lot of cables with Belden wire. Most of the time your main expenses are the connectors, The wire itself is pretty cheap especially if you're buying multiple spools of 500 or 1000 feet at a time. Assembling other peoples cable would also help minimize R&D costs. I like that you can specify custom lengths. I may try a 1ft cable from them. It's hard to find companies that sell less than .5 meter cables.
 
Jul 15, 2014 at 5:25 PM Post #147 of 159
Fully agree. Just compared AQ diamondback with BJC's LC-1, I heard almost no difference. But when compare with 89259 made by BJC, I prefer 89259, which is more tight and clear, but not as airy as diamondback.
 
Jul 16, 2014 at 10:30 AM Post #148 of 159
This is slightly off topic, but if anyone hasn't looked into the CAIG cleaning products you should. Using a cleaner and preservative on the cable ends as well as connection jacks on the equipment can make a pretty noticeable improvement. It's cheap too. $30-40 worth of product is enough to clean all your stuff for several years. I use the Deoxit D-5 and the ProGold. The D-5 is also great for noisy old potentiometers. I've used this stuff for 20 years.
 
Jul 16, 2014 at 10:38 AM Post #149 of 159
This is slightly off topic, but if anyone hasn't looked into the CAIG cleaning products you should. Using a cleaner and preservative on the cable ends as well as connection jacks on the equipment can make a pretty noticeable improvement. It's cheap too. $30-40 worth of product is enough to clean all your stuff for several years. I use the Deoxit D-5 and the ProGold. The D-5 is also great for noisy old potentiometers. I've used this stuff for 20 years.


Good idea. A good contact cleaner is worth having around the house for other electronics. :)
 

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