Best price on HD650's?
Feb 15, 2004 at 12:17 AM Post #61 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by arnaud

And be it vomit inducing for you, I and some others here DO PURCHASE OUR HEADPHONE GEAR THROUGH HEAD-FI SPONSORS because we APPRECIATE how helpful this forum is.

Arnaud.


If they make it pay-per-view - how long do you honestly believe it will be before another forums pops up
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Also - the sponsors have to be thankful for us patronizing them - not vice versa. You have the wrong idea here...THIS is the way things work.

if they get pissed of and decide to leg it alone - great! They lose out on a LARGEE customer base.

they have more to lose than we do - another forums will pop up and *being cheaper* more people will end up there...

Economics always wins my friend...
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 12:23 AM Post #62 of 115
neither do i? Incidentally, i have purchased from head-fi sponsors. I don't feel as if purchasing from a head-fi sponsor proves any particular point, and also I feel you shouldn't have to purchase from one to enjoy this website. Do we purchase every product we see on a tv commerical merely to watch friends?
I wasn't trying to prove something, i was merely trying to emphasize my apathetic observation. If the forum collected donations that I know if, reasonable ones at that, i would then consider. I also feel we all contribute here by posting, and providing information to one another. I am not better then you, nor any other poster, nor are you or someone else for buying senn hd650s for 500 or whatever headroom posts as the price.

ANyways, this is my final post regarding this topic and thread. I recommend the original poster (whoever that was again) Find hd-650s at 350-380, from any online vendor with a decent reputation. FYI, I managed to get mine for $340. I do not doubt this opportunity will arise again.
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 12:27 AM Post #63 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by mjg
ANyways, this is my final post regarding this topic and thread. I recommend the original poster (whoever that was again) Find hd-650s at 350-380, from any online vendor with a decent reputation.


... and let Jude assume the costs of running this forum. Obviously, you don't pay the bill to host it!!

cheers,

Arnaud.
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 12:30 AM Post #64 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by arnaud
... and let Jude assume the costs of running this forum. Obviously, you don't pay the bill to host it!!

cheers,

Arnaud.


Nah I dont...but what I am saying is - there are people out here who WILL if that situation arises...with or without the help of the "SPONSORS"

It may not be as big or effectivee (recent server failures
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) but it will be there all the same.

Dont be blinded - you are a customer - KNOW your power...

Its hilarious to see so many peeps are sycophants
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Feb 15, 2004 at 12:46 AM Post #65 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by gsferrari
Its hilarious to see so many peeps are sycophants
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Right, I had to look it up on the dictionnary
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This such a blend (is that the right word, I don't think so... but it sounds similar to the word I wanna use...) comment. Meaning, where did you get this idea from???

Are you trying to discredit those who are trying to support Jude or I just don't get it?

Arnaud.
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 12:54 AM Post #66 of 115
I hold Jude in the highest regard - JUST dont be so concerned about what the sponsors think about how we get our stuff...

If they have to be competitive then they know what to do to be competitive - bashing the competition on the forums is not a great idea AFAIAK - doesnt inspire a lot of confidence.

dont mistake me peeps - we as customers have to know what our rights are. I have a right to my money and neither Sennheiser, Tyll, AA, ttvj - no one has a right to tell me WHAT IS RIGHT...

I dont care how HARD it is for them to give us the stuff at their prices - if someone else ccan do it and they cant - tough!
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You dont get the point do you arnaud?
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Feb 15, 2004 at 1:19 AM Post #67 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by gsferrari
Its hilarious to see so many peeps are sycophants
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I think it's you that don't get it, you are really going all out to illustrate Tyll's point about the ignorance of consumers aren't you? The behavior you're esposuing is the reason that high end has died and why we as consumers have continually lower grade products to choose from. Why do you think that Internet sites like this are neccessary to begin with? Why can't we just walk in to our local high end store and pick from all the equipment we discuss here? Hint, it takes money to evaluate and present headphones the way that Headroom does and it takes money to support forums like this where opinions can be shared. If you want the lowest possible price then use the resources provided by those lowest possible price sellers to evaluate them, i.e. no Head-Fi and no HeadRoom site. This is the resaon that if I audition a product at a brick and mortar store, I buy it there instead of using their resources to decide on the product and then running off to search the Internet for the lowest price.
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 1:47 AM Post #68 of 115
That is your prerogative. I use a public forums ( this IS one gpalmer
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) to gather information -> then I use the internet to find good prices -> then I sort out dealers with whom I have had experience -> I buy the best price from a good dealer.

If you feel you are bound to buy from Headroom or anyplace else just because you gathered your info from this forums which they sponsor - then its your Mode of Operation - I have no comments to make about this
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I get a lower price, the same product and just as good support/return policy etc.

Please dont confuse HeadFi and headroom - they are NOT the same thing
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One is a public forums where everyone is free to voice their opinions and concerns - another is a commercial venture which HAS to do what is in its best interests to survive in this market.

High end will always find a way my friend - this has nothing to do with the discussion anyway.

So you're saying that if prices go down then we will lose out on the high end?? Then thats just perfect...after all you are just a small % of the market anyway - Sennheiser etc. will focus its attention on the <$50.00 market to target a larger customer base...they dont care - you think they do??
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I think I have said all I have to say on this subject. I have nothing else to add without causing myself to slam my head against the wall which I dont intend doing for such a silly cause
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Its just SUCH a pity that you are all more worried about image and "exclusivity" than getting good value for your money...
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cheers!
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Feb 15, 2004 at 1:59 AM Post #69 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by gsferrari
That is your prerogative. I use a public forums ( this IS one gpalmer
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) to gather information



Supported in part by HeadRoom.

Quote:

So you're saying that if prices go down then we will lose out on the high end??


Generally speaking prices have gone down in my lifetime because the merchandise is shoddier. Look at the high quality goods sold at Walmart as an example. There is far less variety in the quality of goods stocked by a Walmart than there were in the department stores of twenty years ago. Back then you could buy either cheap throw away items or you could buy items that would last for years, now it's all the cheap throw away items. And when your cheapest retailers don't know enough about headphones to stock the good ones, yes, the merchandise gets worse all the way around because there is no reason to make good products that no one asks for.

Quote:

Its just SUCH a pity that you are all more worried about image and "exclusivity" than getting good value for your money...
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It's just SUCH a pity that you are so short sighted that you can't see beyond your immediate gain, even when the long term problems caused have been explained to you slowly. Happy Walmarting and have some frys with that!
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Feb 15, 2004 at 2:03 AM Post #70 of 115
You are equating AA and Walmart which I think is a gross error on your part.

This forums is supported by Headroom? great...nice of them to do so...
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But that doesnt make me holden to them to take everything they say at the prices they offer me?

I bought my Grado SR-60's from headroom - very happy, nice prices...no problems...great tech support.

I have the Headroom TAH 2003/2004 models for checking out - Ivy has been great!!

I like Headroom - their pricing policy has nothing to do with that.

If I find AA giving me better prices then I will go with them - If I am going to be banned from headfi for this then SO BE IT
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AFAIK - Sponsoring the forums doesnt give Tyll the right to crap on other resellers...harsh but true...

cheers!!
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Feb 15, 2004 at 2:11 AM Post #71 of 115
"If you want the lowest possible price then use the resources provided by those lowest possible price sellers to evaluate them, i.e. no Head-Fi and no HeadRoom site. This is the resaon that if I audition a product at a brick and mortar store, I buy it there instead of using their resources to decide on the product and then running off to search the Internet for the lowest price."

I've got to agree with gplamer on this one - at least in principle - although I must admit that this is quite easy to lose sight of and on many occasions I've done my share of internet searches to try to find the lowest price possible. Nothing wrong with that either. In the future, I'll still look for the lowest price so that I become an informed consumer, but will always consider Head-fi sponsors as well, and will buy from them if, in my judgment, they are in the same general ball park in terms of pricing. In the recent past I've bought items from Jan Meier and Todd for this reason, as well as Slappa (which offers great, and unique, products at competitive prices). This is my "when in doubt, support head-fi sponsors" opinion for what it is worth. Yet, if the price difference is too hard to swallow, I'll buy it elsewhere. As others have mentioned, price is a consideration, but so is loyalty to those who help to make head-fi possible.

I've not personally benefitted from the HeadRoom world tour, for instance, but know that many others here at head-fi have. I also know that this love for the hobby comes at a great personal cost to folks like Tyll. When I first started in the hobby (before finding head-fi, I remember reading the HeadRoom website extensively and found it both interesting, informative and - in a sense - passionate. This is much appreciated.

I also know that it is costly to try to help others along in the hobby. People who have hosted meets like Bozebuttons, Hirsch, and Tuberoller to name just a few, have done so at a personal cost. Amp makers like Mikhail at SinglePower Audio and Ray Samuels at Emmeline Audio have travelled to meets, sent thier products in advance, and have generally gone way out of their way to help others. Sure, this is motivated, in part, to promote their business, just as HeadRoom's informative website and their World Tour helps them in the long run. But what is easy to miss is that the financial costs of doing such things often outweigh the financial benefits to them in terms of increased sales and there is what in economics is called a "free rider effect" whereby you learn from the HeadRoom website (for instance) and then buy elsewhere - just like with gpalmer's example of doing this with brick and mortar places. It just feels creepy when I do this at an audio shop, but somehow it becomes less personal when I do it with a website. This is simply to say that what folks like Tyll, Mikhail and Ray have done with thier businesses is, in part, motivated by their enjoyment of the hobby and their interest in helping others, even if this does not result in personal gain. I know this is true of Tyll, Mikhail, and Ray, and many others that I have not mentioned - and this is worth something to me.

Does this mean that I would (or that you should) automatically and without thought buy their products? That you should do so blindly without considering what the more impersonal, detached, and purely profit motivated competition offers in terms of pricing? No. But in my opinion, it is appropriate to at least keep them in mind when making a purchasing decision. This is precisely why I will commission Mikhail to build a Blue Hawaii amp for my Omega II's rather than searching around to see who else might do it for a little less.

Having said all of that, I realize that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and there is nothing 'wrong' about anyone's views that I've read in this thread. In other aspects of my life, I don't feel such loyalties - such as where to buy gas, groceries, or other necessities that I feel less passionate about. When it comes to the audio hobby, and the very small high-end headphone market in particular, I really appreciate what certain people have done to help advance it to where it is today.
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 2:24 AM Post #72 of 115
Absolutely - gotta hand it to them - Tyll, Todd, Ray Samuels, Jan Meier and the rest of em...the moderators as well and Jude (Someone mentioned that he is the "owner" of the forums
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)

I dont deny their contributions to the forums - But its strength is in its members.

However I must add that they have NO power over my decisions and I will not accept the bashing of other resellers for the sole reason that they dont sponsor the forums...sorry...

I have done business with Headroom, TTVJ, AA and they have all been VERY friendly, supportive and just plain awesome...

But its impossible for me to say no to a deal at AA which just plain trumps everything else.

Example of why I am not completely against these folks??

I could have ordered the Grados from a "less holier" reseller when they were backordered - but I stuck to my order with Headroom and I have been rewarded with two awesome Grado SR-60's (one for me and one is a gift to my brother).

So people - dont misunderstand what I am trying to say - think about what I have said and what others have to say - the good thing is that here you are not forced to see one side of the coin...

But stand up for yourselves and dont let anyone tell you that someone else sucks when you or others have had a positive experience with them...

If you know what I mean...
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 2:32 AM Post #73 of 115
Quote:

Originally posted by gsferrari
What makes you want to demean their ability to make a good product? Everything you on is probably made in the Far east...China, Taiwan, Japan and the rest of Asia...

Your headphone saved lives??
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Do you care...no...dare to elaborate on that statement ??
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Hi gsferrari,

I will gladly answer your question, but first a little precision: I don't want to demean the ability of anyone anywhere in the world. The next best headphone could comme from Iceland for that matter. Technology has no frontier and all people are equal in their potential to master it.

Now your question about the headphone «saving lives» is as you can imagine a comment about the logic of finding a new and cheaper source of labour. 1$ a day make no sense when you can find someone who could do the job for a piece of bread...

But you already knew all of that. It may surprise you but my first post was going partly on your side. At first I was surprise by the naive nature of Tyll's position. Telling people how and where to spend their money is in itself a risky business
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On second tought the absolute freedom to choose the best price is a right that seems to have only positive effects. I can assure you that position has it's own shortcommings and it's an illusion.


Regards
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 3:06 AM Post #74 of 115
Agreed

There is no doubt in my mind that, prices being equal or even slightly higher at one of the sponsors websites compared to some other website - I will order my gear from a sponsor.

I have had nothing but positive experiences with Todd and Headroom...fantastic and highly recommended.
 
Feb 15, 2004 at 3:08 AM Post #75 of 115
Wow, you guys stand your ground like a Nebraska Corn Hunsker fan stands behind his team. This is some pretty intense drama. I don't need to watch TV tonight with this thread going.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyll Hertsens
Fine, commerce is hard ball. I accept that. You do what you can get away with. But american consumers are by and large adolescent fools. They flock to WalMart and bitch about loosing jobs to China. That's stupid. We have a culture of gluttinous consumption, and it let's us think that the normal process for buying something is simply to scrounge for the cheapest price.

Sennheiser recognises that to sell premium product well and service customers well it costs money and they need to do something to protect quality vendors. THey came out with a strict sales policy for 650s that says you're not allowed to automate price quotes lower than $449.99. They came down hard, everybody clamed up for a couple of weeks and then they start to sneek in lower pricing.

THE REASON THEY CAN MAKE A LIVING OFF LOWER PRICING IS THAT THEY DON'T REALLY GIVE A **** ABOUT THE HOBBY OR THE PEOPLE IN IT.

Heck yeah, I want to make a living, and I want to grow HeadRoom, but I want to do it in a win-win-win way. It's a subtle balance; I can't get too greedy, I have to put in the work, I have to actually care about the quality of products in this catagory and try to lobby headphone makers to make better cans, I have to buy $50,000 in test equipment to develope a measurement program. B&H, J&R, AA, Circuit City, etc do you ever see ANY of them here EVER! This is a friggen community and those guys NOT ONCE have given Jude a dime; NOT ONCE posted.

In a way I pay taxes here by supporting this community and helping to do the things that a commercial venture can do to contribute to a community. FINE, call Jamey tomorrow and ask him for the AA price; I just emailed him to give it. But he might be on the phone to Sennheiser finking on AA cause I told him to do that, too.

The internet is a frontier and it's live or die, quick and the dead, etc ad nausium. But if you want this little town to grow past mud sidewalks you better decide to shop locally . . . even when it costs a bit extra. Or you can say bye-bye to better products and hello to translucent purple plastic crap.

And it's true as a nation, too: unless we decide to buy fewer thing of higher quality, and unless we decide to live a less gluttenous lifestyle, our economy will crumble under the loss of jobs and rediculous personal debt.


Hey hey now, I love Wal-Mart. I have five big dogs and I buy my dog food there every couple weeks. My dogs love it too! As for electronics, I have only purchased one DVD player there.

After reading Tyll’s post I feel that he really would like some loyalty for all that he has invested to this community. I usually only purchase from the used market because of current tight finances but I think that once I get further ahead financially I wont mind spending more to purchase new items from him or any of the other sponsors. However, I think that it is a bit odd that some would scrutinize an individual for shopping elsewhere. I understand and beleive in "Head-fi loyalty", but I have a deep conviction for individual FREEDOM. Individuals should have the right to purchase anywhere they desire.
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