[ffdpmaggot]

Screw the turtles, get a pair of audiophile grade music headphones. The x41 aren't as good as my monitor's stereo speakers for 3d imaging, my shure E2c blow the turtle's away on all accounts, they aren't great for gaming in the way that they has relatively little bass, so gunshot snaps, I crank my volume to 20 and I can verify that the experience is more painful that shooting a real gun because the noise is so trebly, gunshot requires tons of bass. Anyhow, senns HD 595 look good, maybe the ATH AD700 would be better, but they're both under 200 bucks on ebay. 

 

[156219]

 
Quote:

 
What is the OP going to use the headphones?
 
Secondly 5.1 / 7.1 are stimulated surround sound.....
 
These are nothing compared to good audiophile grade headphone?
 
Ask any head fier 
 
Please take advice from people...
 
And research before you post.
 
Also what is your budget?

Quote:

Screw the turtles, get a pair of audiophile grade music headphones. The x41 aren't as good as my monitor's stereo speakers for 3d imaging, my shure E2c blow the turtle's away on all accounts, they aren't great for gaming in the way that they has relatively little bass, so gunshot snaps, I crank my volume to 20 and I can verify that the experience is more painful that shooting a real gun because the noise is so trebly, gunshot requires tons of bass. Anyhow, senns HD 595 look good, maybe the ATH AD700 would be better, but they're both under 200 bucks on ebay. 

 
OP should be listening ?

 

[mcnoiserdc]

It is for gaming
 
Quote:

 
What is the OP going to use the headphones?
 
Secondly 5.1 / 7.1 are stimulated surround sound.....
 
These are nothing compared to good audiophile grade headphone?
 
Ask any head fier 
 
Please take advice from people...
 
And research before you post.
 
Also what is your budget?

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The 5.1 sets in the OP are not simulated surround sound.  The 7.1 headsets are all using dolby pro logic or dolby headphone.  I'm off the opinion that 5.1 headsets are actually better for positional audio, but I still use the ad700 and CMSS 3d because it sounds better.  
 
Actually I haven't been using CMSS 3d in some games and I think it gives me better positioning without it.  The only thing I've found that simulated surround can't do for me is let me know when a sound is behind me or in front.  They sound the same.  I'm sure other people don't have this problem, but it does not work for me.  My old Razer Barracuda 5.1 headset was far superior to my AD700's in that department.  
 
True 5.1 headsets are not a gimmick and they actually do work, but they sound terrible.  It's up to the person spending the money if they want better positional audio, or sound quality.  

 

[156219]

Quote:

It is for gaming
 

 

I dont know.....
 
The OP hasent listed what he will be using the phones for...
 
But i guess it is for gaming?

 

[156219]

Quote:

The 5.1 sets in the OP are not simulated surround sound.  The 7.1 headsets are all using dolby pro logic or dolby headphone.  I'm off the opinion that 5.1 headsets are actually better for positional audio, but I still use the ad700 and CMSS 3d because it sounds better.  
 
Actually I haven't been using CMSS 3d in some games and I think it gives me better positioning without it.  The only thing I've found that simulated surround can't do for me is let me know when a sound is behind me or in front.  They sound the same.  I'm sure other people don't have this problem, but it does not work for me.  My old Razer Barracuda 5.1 headset was far superior to my AD700's in that department.  
 
True 5.1 headsets are not a gimmick and they actually do work, but they sound terrible.  It's up to the person spending the money if they want better positional audio, or sound quality.  

I always advise gamers to try stereo phones instead. "5.1" headsets do not do 5.1. It's technically impossible.

Widgets like decoders, adding delay, echo and reverb effects isn't the same thing; they are there to market them and jack the price up - you cannot replicate 5 separate channels and a sub, with a couple of cheap, extra drivers crammed into an ear-cup. They don't do true sound-staging any better than stereo.

at least going with stereo phones, you'll get a lot better product for your (less) money that will sound far better for music as well, when you're not gaming.
 

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I'm telling you the 5.1 headset I used to use worked perfectly and the soundstage was amazing.  It was like cheating because I know exactly where everyone was.  If I was dead during a round I would be telling my surviving teamates when they were looking the wrong way, or "BEHIND YOU."  It didn't sound great, but it worked.  Anyone that has actually tried a 5.1 headset and knew how to set it up properly will completely agree with me.  They give great positional audio in games, but they don't sound that great.  
 

 

[mcnoiserdc]

Well if my ears are ok, you are wrong. Virtual surround is what introduces all sort of processing to audio. the 5.1 headsets with multiple drivers just use same source as speakers, no post-processing.
 
Anyway the point is, if you want to know what your enemies are doing and have some fun with sound get a good 5.1 headset. if you want to know some of what your enemies are doing and good sound quality get a stereo set, with or without virtual 5.1
 
Quote:

I always advise gamers to try stereo phones instead. "5.1" headsets do not do 5.1. It's technically impossible.

Widgets like decoders, adding delay, echo and reverb effects isn't the same thing; they are there to market them and jack the price up - you cannot replicate 5 separate channels and a sub, with a couple of cheap, extra drivers crammed into an ear-cup. They don't do true sound-staging any better than stereo.

at least going with stereo phones, you'll get a lot better product for your (less) money that will sound far better for music as well, when you're not gaming.
 

 

[156219]

Quote:

I'm telling you the 5.1 headset I used to use worked perfectly and the soundstage was amazing.  It was like cheating because I know exactly where everyone was.  If I was dead during a round I would be telling my surviving teamates when they were looking the wrong way, or "BEHIND YOU."  It didn't sound great, but it worked.  Anyone that has actually tried a 5.1 headset and knew how to set it up properly will completely agree with me.  They give great positional audio in games, but they don't sound that great.  
 

 I don't need to have listened to every set of "5.1" on the market to know the whole market is built on overpriced bling with widgets. So long as people understand they'll pay over the odds for something a set of stereo can do just as well as regards positional audio and clarity (not to mention comfort) for less, then bling away. I'm not telling people what to buy, but offering a counter opinion so they can make a decision based on both sides.

It's one thing to be absorbed in the game - virtually anything with 2 speakers can do that. It's the soundstaging and 5.1 thing - it's a crock. 3 cheapo drivers mm from your ears will not produce 5.1, no matter how super bling the decoder is.

 

[156219]

Quote:

Well if my ears are ok, you are wrong. Virtual surround is what introduces all sort of processing to audio. the 5.1 headsets with multiple drivers just use same source as speakers, no post-processing.
 
Anyway the point is, if you want to know what your enemies are doing and have some fun with sound get a good 5.1 headset. if you want to know some of what your enemies are doing and good sound quality get a stereo set, with or without virtual 5.1
 

 

 
 
Man, you're missing the point; 2,3, or 4 driver per side; what's the difference, the more there are, the crappier they'll be. You're arguing semantics and missing my main point. I'll reiterate and leave it here, as you seem only to ant to tell everyone you much you like these, and gloss over the real issues.

Soundstage and clarity is not about buying MORE drivers, it's about buying BETTER ones. And this will ALWAYS be limited by the nature of games files. Simple effects of footsteps, explosions etc are not hard to reproduce with accuracy.

Please, headphone drivers have a sub in there? C'mon. You're back on the marketing stuff - it matters not how many decoders and whatnot you have in there, you do not get 5.1 out of headphones. Period.

All you have described is those widget effects, which produce rear delay or whatever. Fine, you like the effect. But don't mistake that for 5.1. You simply cannot replicate 5 satellite speakers placed around a room with adequate space between them, and a full size sub, with headphones.

Again, you like the effect, fine. If other like the sound of that, then they'll get the Titton. But don't try and tell anyone true 5.1 surround sound and extra mega wide soundstage comes out of cheap drivers right next to your ear. Your ears simply cannot audibly process the difference between sound coming from one driver or another when they are crammed in right next to each other.

This effect is just as equally produced by quality drivers producing separation effects through better design, quality and build. Your ears can be fooled into gaining the same effect, for far less cash, with stereo. Because the drivers do it better than '5.1' in the first place.

I haven't heard many of these sets, don't need to, because they're all shades of the same flavour. I've also had many discussions about this with someone who was a competitive Pro gamer for 15 years, and who only ever used good stereo phones. He now owns a headphone store and still games. He stocks a few 5.1s, because no matter that he tells gamers, some want bling and toys to play around with. And despite his advice and experience, if that's what they're set on, better he sells one to them after spending his time to give that advice.

So that's all I'm saying, these things are no better for gaming. You might like them, but technically stereo can do it all just as well, or better, for less. Plus, as you've already said these sets aren't about hi fi. So after gaming if someone wants to listen to music, phones will do this better too.

I'll leave readers to make up their own mind, but people should know what they're buying isn't technically superior.
 
 

 

[Riku540]

I second on value. The Mixamp paired with an audiophile phone with good soundstage will do the same (in my experience, out-perform largely) with greater clarity and lower price, and a wider range of uses.

 

[156219]

Quote:

 
 
Man, you're missing the point; 2,3, or 4 driver per side; what's the difference, the more there are, the crappier they'll be. You're arguing semantics and missing my main point. I'll reiterate and leave it here, as you seem only to ant to tell everyone you much you like these, and gloss over the real issues.

Soundstage and clarity is not about buying MORE drivers, it's about buying BETTER ones. And this will ALWAYS be limited by the nature of games files. Simple effects of footsteps, explosions etc are not hard to reproduce with accuracy.

Please, headphone drivers have a sub in there? C'mon. You're back on the marketing stuff - it matters not how many decoders and whatnot you have in there, you do not get 5.1 out of headphones. Period.

All you have described is those widget effects, which produce rear delay or whatever. Fine, you like the effect. But don't mistake that for 5.1. You simply cannot replicate 5 satellite speakers placed around a room with adequate space between them, and a full size sub, with headphones.

Again, you like the effect, fine. If other like the sound of that, then they'll get the Titton. But don't try and tell anyone true 5.1 surround sound and extra mega wide soundstage comes out of cheap drivers right next to your ear. Your ears simply cannot audibly process the difference between sound coming from one driver or another when they are crammed in right next to each other.

This effect is just as equally produced by quality drivers producing separation effects through better design, quality and build. Your ears can be fooled into gaining the same effect, for far less cash, with stereo. Because the drivers do it better than '5.1' in the first place.

I haven't heard many of these sets, don't need to, because they're all shades of the same flavour. I've also had many discussions about this with someone who was a competitive Pro gamer for 15 years, and who only ever used good stereo phones. He now owns a headphone store and still games. He stocks a few 5.1s, because no matter that he tells gamers, some want bling and toys to play around with. And despite his advice and experience, if that's what they're set on, better he sells one to them after spending his time to give that advice.

So that's all I'm saying, these things are no better for gaming. You might like them, but technically stereo can do it all just as well, or better, for less. Plus, as you've already said these sets aren't about hi fi. So after gaming if someone wants to listen to music, phones will do this better too.

I'll leave readers to make up their own mind, but people should know what they're buying isn't technically superior.
 
 

Quote:

I second on value. The Mixamp paired with an audiophile phone with good soundstage will do the same (in my experience, out-perform largely) with greater clarity and lower price, and a wider range of uses.

 
x2
 

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The headsets with a decoder only have 1 driver per ear.  Most 5.1 headsets take the same 5.1 signal that a home theater would get and use that, so there is no gimmicky software surround emulation.  It's actually surround sound with drivers that don't sound as good as a hifi stereo headset.  What I've been saying all along is that there are tradeoffs that the person in the market for the headphones have to be willing to make.  Sound quality or positional audio.  In my case I ditched the 5.1 headset because sound quality was more important.  My ad700's give good positional audio, but I can't tell the difference between sounds that are in front of me or behind me.  I didn't have a problem telling the difference on my Razer HP-1's.    

 

[156219]

Quote:

The headsets with a decoder only have 1 driver per ear.  Most 5.1 headsets take the same 5.1 signal that a home theater would get and use that, so there is no gimmicky software surround emulation.  It's actually surround sound with drivers that don't sound as good as a hifi stereo headset.  What I've been saying all along is that there are tradeoffs that the person in the market for the headphones have to be willing to make.  Sound quality or positional audio.  In my case I ditched the 5.1 headset because sound quality was more important.  My ad700's give good positional audio, but I can't tell the difference between sounds that are in front of me or behind me.  I didn't have a problem telling the difference on my Razer HP-1's.    

It doesn't matter that there are only 2 drivers per side; they're still cheaper drivers than you'll get in good quality phones. Soundstage and positioning is achieved with better drivers, not more. You pay for the blingy looks, widgets and extensive marketing that these headset makers have to recoup.

And you cannot 'buy' more soundstage from games with better phones or effects; you can't extract from the files what isn't there in the first place. A 100 pair of Audio Technica AD700 will extract the same soundstage from games as a HD600, or whatever top end phone is regarded as having the most expansive.

All the things you're saying about these, points to the widget effects they produce - which you clearly like, and that's fine. But having a delay feature isn't increasing soundstage. 

While you like the effect, it's not the same as them being technically better than stereo. I think some could find them unnatural and distracting to over-tweak things with delay, echo, reverb etc, which some of these thing do.
 

 

[mcnoiserdc]

Well you are just not listening I'll leave it like that.
I have used 5.1 headset for a year on gears of war and used mixamp plus hd 600 for 4 months. what I can tell you is that I returned to 5.1 because at lower volumes I could hear where my enemies where. I also have a creative soundcard with cmss-3d which is better than dolby headphones. I have done lots of blind tests where my wife and I try to locate objects according to sound hint on a map, mostly gears of war. so I know what I am talking. 
It is like Vulgar says, it depends on what you want or what you like.
Quote:

 
 
Man, you're missing the point; 2,3, or 4 driver per side; what's the difference, the more there are, the crappier they'll be. You're arguing semantics and missing my main point. I'll reiterate and leave it here, as you seem only to ant to tell everyone you much you like these, and gloss over the real issues.

Soundstage and clarity is not about buying MORE drivers, it's about buying BETTER ones. And this will ALWAYS be limited by the nature of games files. Simple effects of footsteps, explosions etc are not hard to reproduce with accuracy.

Please, headphone drivers have a sub in there? C'mon. You're back on the marketing stuff - it matters not how many decoders and whatnot you have in there, you do not get 5.1 out of headphones. Period.

All you have described is those widget effects, which produce rear delay or whatever. Fine, you like the effect. But don't mistake that for 5.1. You simply cannot replicate 5 satellite speakers placed around a room with adequate space between them, and a full size sub, with headphones.

Again, you like the effect, fine. If other like the sound of that, then they'll get the Titton. But don't try and tell anyone true 5.1 surround sound and extra mega wide soundstage comes out of cheap drivers right next to your ear. Your ears simply cannot audibly process the difference between sound coming from one driver or another when they are crammed in right next to each other.

This effect is just as equally produced by quality drivers producing separation effects through better design, quality and build. Your ears can be fooled into gaining the same effect, for far less cash, with stereo. Because the drivers do it better than '5.1' in the first place.

I haven't heard many of these sets, don't need to, because they're all shades of the same flavour. I've also had many discussions about this with someone who was a competitive Pro gamer for 15 years, and who only ever used good stereo phones. He now owns a headphone store and still games. He stocks a few 5.1s, because no matter that he tells gamers, some want bling and toys to play around with. And despite his advice and experience, if that's what they're set on, better he sells one to them after spending his time to give that advice.

So that's all I'm saying, these things are no better for gaming. You might like them, but technically stereo can do it all just as well, or better, for less. Plus, as you've already said these sets aren't about hi fi. So after gaming if someone wants to listen to music, phones will do this better too.

I'll leave readers to make up their own mind, but people should know what they're buying isn't technically superior.