[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif 78-80 dbs just is not realistically loud enough for my LIVE "musicians in the room", or "you are there" experience with speakers IMO! This is a common problem with speakers also, unless much bigger investment is made than for nearfield listening, and then the room coupling becomes problematic... As I say, I do enjoy the effect my speaker set up offers, but it has its limitations and thats where the versatility between both systems is a great cost effective compromise. However, I still belive much bigger bucks needs to be spent for realistic speaker listening with the same level of resolution at real live event believable listening dbs levels!

If you were responding to my comment, I can certainly play the speakers louder than 78-80 DB. My speakers only need 1 watt for a 92 DB SPL. I just find the sound satisfying at that 78-80 DB SPL. I probably listen at a similar volume through my headphones. My problem is no one wants the speakers on .... at any volume .... hence the reason I moved to headphones.

 

[rapzoo]

Great thread and David your comparison of headphones/speakers to paintings/sculpture was fantastic. It is quite clear that headphones can produce high-end sound. I listen to speaker systems and headphones and enjoy both, but they are very different. A good speaker system moves a lot of air and can simulate the visceral impact and three dimensional image of a live performance, however, a good hp system generally offers better detail and more accurate sound reproduction. Which is better is truly a personal choice. I usually prefer my headphones, which I consider to produce truly high end sound.

 

[pfloding]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you were responding to my comment, I can certainly play the speakers louder than 78-80 DB. My speakers only need 1 watt for a 92 DB SPL. I just find the sound satisfying at that 78-80 DB SPL. I probably listen at a similar volume through my headphones. My problem is no one wants the speakers on .... at any volume .... hence the reason I moved to headphones.

Those 92 dB are measured at 1 meter's distance from the speaker. And the real figure is usually a bit off the specs as well.

Sorry your other family members don't appreciate your sound system!

 

[pfloding]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trastan /img/forum/go_quote.gif This a great discussion, and one that I've been mulling myself since I purchased my SR-60s. Here's my experience; this may be worthwhile if only because I offer a "noob" point of view; i.e., I'm still waiting on my first headamp, and my speaker setup is mediocre at best. In addition to my headphones (see signature), I also have a pair of Yamaha NS-555 tower speakers and a $100 Polk sub with some decent Monster (hey, it was cheap! Don't shoot!) speaker cable, run off of the receiver in my sig. Frankly, I love my system and find no reason to upgrade; it gives me full, rich sound with plenty of power. I enjoy it so much, in fact, that my entire headphone quest was to achieve a level of sound quality to rival my speakers. To that end I look forward to my incoming LittleDot MK III (thanks aphexii!), but until then I still enjoy my 0404 USB and receiver through my speakers to my HD 650s. I admit, a lot of my love of my speakers has to do with the visceral impact, but there is just a level of clarity and airiness that I get from my speakers that I just haven't been able to achieve with headphones (again, we'll see what the LittleDot brings; can't wait!). I've also tried the 325i, DT880, and DT990, and while I enjoyed each a great deal, at no time would I choose any of them over my full speaker setup. What I'm getting at is that it seems to be much more difficult, and often expensive, for an average consumer to achieve "good" sound out of speakers than it is with headphones. My HD 650s SHOULD be in a league of their own in my setup, far beyond the quality of my midrange consumer speakers. However, they're hampered by a less-than-perfect headphone jack on my receiver (which still sounds leagues better than the one on the 0404, just so we're clear), thus seemingly cutting them off at their knees. I'm sure there's an even larger enthusiast movement in the speaker department with regards to synergy, receivers, room coordination, etc., and that my system would likely be outright laughed at. However, I am shocked to find that, even though I've spent countless hours poring over headphone reviews and information, I still end up preferring a "thrown-together" speaker setup to nearly top-of-the-line headphone sets. Therefore, while I expect great things with my MK III, the fact that it took as much money and effort as it has just to get to a point of equivalence is might be a cause for thought. And that's my point of view!

Don't worry about your speaker cables!

Just make sure the contacts throughout your system are clean! Most of cable improvements are due to incidentally cleaning the contacts while switching things around. IMHO.

BTW, Yamaha has real pedigree in speakers (I use superb older ones), and I'm sure yours are very good.

 

[jinx20001]

headphones can sound to the ear as good as any home system,but theres never the same feeling as home speakers,its as simple as that,but its wise to bear in mind headphones still need a decent source and set up to sound nice

 

[spacemanspliff]

Speakers are ultimately more "high end". However, when faced with the obstacles of a terrible room and a wife that just doesn't appreciate BF2(pc game) aka boom boom bang bang 2 hrs at night every day, I prefer headphones lol.

Of course, the reason I just purged everything for Stax is to get as close to speaker presentation as possible since I stupidly sold my K1000s.

 

[Happy Camper]

Pearljam your procrastination is killing me. I keep waiting for you to get that SP and RS-1s and do a writeup. I do understand the economics of the issue though. Especially in this belt-tightening time.

For the inner details of the music, hps can't be beat. To hear the same details in your speakers, you have to turn it up. If your environment limits your ability to listen at the levels you desire or fatigue from higher db levels are too much, hps are the way to go. There have been many professionals that use hps for critical mixing.

The recording and mixing process has been built by a technician, so the natural sound would rarely be duplicated. Some recordings mic inside the instrument. Others are in the musicians or crowd. I guess the music you listen to has a big impact on the presentation. I would agree with others that mixing is tailored to speaker listening.

To me, the biggest difference between speaker and headphone listening is the desire. Speakers give you social entertainment. Headphones give you personal entertainment. Two tools for different needs. Hps can't match a HT setup for movies or concerts and speakers can be hard to match the intimancy and details of hps.

I think my 701s and electrostatic speakers sound pretty close though(less the sub). I would like to one day hear a good stat hp rig but it would only make me want to upgrade a system I have put a fair amount into already. I determined that I would not do that since I started this hp build. Dynamics have enough impact that stats don't to make it a worthwhile compromise. (or I am just telling myself that to save spending 4-5K on a good stat rig)

 

[robm321]

I agree with SACD lover - a budget speaker system will outdo most headphone rigs. Bump it up to $10K and you can border on world class minus some of the last bit of refinement if you are a budget shopper and find synergy.

Yes. headphones are high end just like speakers, but they can't give you what speakers can.

How many people would buy a 5" tv screen and say wow look at my new set and how good the resolution and color is... when they have a 50" set that can do the same thing.

Headphones are for intimacy, convenience, budget, lack of listening space, able to move around and not sit it the sweet spot.

But for creating lifelike and full sized music with air, ambiance, and space around it with true bass vibration, speakers win without a fight.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes. headphones are high end just like speakers, but they can't give you what speakers can. How many people would buy a 5" tv screen and say wow look at my new set and how good the resolution and color is... when they have a 50" set that can do the same thing.

this is an interesting way to look at it,but i think the wrong way to look at it, we all would prefer a bigger tv because its easier to see, but if the screen is a poor one that dont make it a better screen than the 5'' just because its bigger.

its like saying bigger speakers are better because they are louder,but it just is not true,budget speakers cant possibly sound better than high end earphones because they are not going to have the same level of definition or accuracy. but if you have high end speakers then they have been further defined and made to be more accurate,costin thousands more.

so in my opinion budget speakers are budget for a reason, therfor not giving anywhere near the definition and quality of high end earphones

 

[ken36]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My question is,are high end headphones high end only when compared to other headphones?or are they high end even when they are compared to speakers for example,or to any type of Transducer?

1- Compared to other headphones

2-No

Completely different sound mediums. Apples and oranges. Now, the truth be told. IMO.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif The real issue is which one sounds more like real music. I dont have any doubt speakers do that best. Headphones do not image realistically and headphones do not provide the bass/ body sensation of speakers and headphones confine you. .

well put, as have been your other posts in this thread.
nice latest "coolest" headfier Earl..

 

[pearljam5000]

Hehe,i'm truly sorry.
the thing is i'm out of a job right now,so all i have is posting threads on head-fi.
i'm dying to get my SP+ RS-1(or GS-1000,haven't decided yet) very much so.
just last night a i had a dream about the GS-1000,i kid you not.
so hopefuly i'll buy my rig as soon as i get a job.
and then i'll be in detail heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pearljam your procrastination is killing me. I keep waiting for you to get that SP and RS-1s and do a writeup. I do understand the economics of the issue though. Especially in this belt-tightening time. For the inner details of the music, hps can't be beat. To hear the same details in your speakers, you have to turn it up. If your environment limits your ability to listen at the levels you desire or fatigue from higher db levels are too much, hps are the way to go. There have been many professionals that use hps for critical mixing. The recording and mixing process has been built by a technician, so the natural sound would rarely be duplicated. Some recordings mic inside the instrument. Others are in the musicians or crowd. I guess the music you listen to has a big impact on the presentation. I would agree with others that mixing is tailored to speaker listening. To me, the biggest difference between speaker and headphone listening is the desire. Speakers give you social entertainment. Headphones give you personal entertainment. Two tools for different needs. Hps can't match a HT setup for movies or concerts and speakers can be hard to match the intimancy and details of hps. I think my 701s and electrostatic speakers sound pretty close though(less the sub). I would like to one day hear a good stat hp rig but it would only make me want to upgrade a system I have put a fair amount into already. I determined that I would not do that since I started this hp build. Dynamics have enough impact that stats don't to make it a worthwhile compromise. (or I am just telling myself that to save spending 4-5K on a good stat rig)

 

[Quint]

Headphones absolutely can be a high-end means of audio reproduction. No doubt about it—and those who say they can’t probably have never heard a good can-based rig. Friends of mine who’ve heard my setup have come away pretty amazed at what “mere” headphones can do.

I have a good speaker-based rig too, but for seriously critical listening, I go headphones every time. So, to answer your question, an emphatic [size=x-large]YES!!!!![/size]

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler /img/forum/go_quote.gif well put, as have been your other posts in this thread. nice latest "coolest" headfier Earl..

He is on several of us headfier's "cool" list. He is an expert on tubes, SPs, and several other topics you care to discuss. There are some excellent resources on this forum and some are different from Earl. Earl helped me often on the phone with general knowledge when I was learning what to invest in and is a pretty good blok to boot. I respect his profession and passion. (is this turning into an Earl for king thread

) I would love to get into his tube stash since he has so many.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is an interesting way to look at it,but i think the wrong way to look at it, we all would prefer a bigger tv because its easier to see, but if the screen is a poor one that dont make it a better screen than the 5'' just because its bigger.

Speakers don't sound poor in comparison to headphone - they easily match them if not bettering them. Most heapdhones under $1K have flaws in one area or another, heck even the most expensive do. Speakers usually do most things well and balanced even at "budget" prices. And size does matter when you want to reproduce music as realistically as possible. A life sized violinist in front of you simply sounds better than one in the middle of your head the size of the fingernail on your pinky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif its like saying bigger speakers are better because they are louder,but it just is not true,budget speakers cant possibly sound better than high end earphones because they are not going to have the same level of definition or accuracy. but if you have high end speakers then they have been further defined and made to be more accurate,costin thousands more. so in my opinion budget speakers are budget for a reason, therfor not giving anywhere near the definition and quality of high end earphones

Your assumption that budget speakers can't give the resolution and definition of headphones and that's simply not the case.